Re: Nick Viall Bachelorette 10 - Fan Forum - Updates - Discussion - Thread #9

[Guest]

Starting at the 1.50 mark she tells Nick to be confident then a VO of him starts over her talking but I think she is saying be confident, be confident, be confident by the 2.0 mark. Can someone take a look and see if that's right??

I responded to you on the contestant thread as well, it appears that's what she said but then I don't know what it was in response to, couldn't hear Nick's in the background due to the VO.

While Andi does say 'be confident', my impression is that her words did not match her heart at this time.  Something was off about this date.... Andi was definitely pulling away, particularly in contrast to her LCD with Josh.

yes..ITA on the bolded. i shared the same opinion with Mimi that she seemed to change her heart after her FS with Josh  . I can speculate about this over and over but i think this topic is not worth my time any longer   .

[isittrue]

Loved all the posts and the survivor bitch blog - all have expressed my views more eloquently than I could have hoped. Just hoping that all 3 involved can learn and move forward with their lives without lingering bitterness and hurt.

[SueSt]

Sue ...
from bottom up:
He will never say it. We may think that way, he probably at the end came to similar conclusion.
There is a level of deceit ... or this show would call it ... lead on.
And he knows it ... he called it ... he is using more delicate words in the interviews now ... but he is saying it.
The last part of the interview on E! - the video above - the part that is not transcripted is "when people have an understanding when love's involved and falling in-love ... I think there's a level of respect that both people should give to it" ... of course he says later ... "I'm not saying she didn't...."  ... but well, I would call it: leave it to the interpretation.

The letter ... hmmm... the letter ... He wrote it. - Yes. But I don't buy the story of wanting her back. Even he doesn't say it. It is written in a way that it can allude. It is mostly him questioning her (challenging must say, to explain herself about her actions and words to him).
In the video in MKE ... he and his mom - on tape - clearly say that he needs closure (not about what), but also Nick is very strong-minded, he doesn't talk about wanting her back in any way, just that he wants to understand.
In the voice-over he talks about the hope and possibility of her changing her mind. That part, together with the MTA visit, together with the letter ... was all scripted and produced for the purpose of the storyboard "heartbroken Nick" (not his idea, but he ran with it).
Did he try to contact her ... let's assume and believe every word CH says ... yes ... once - and I say, only once - when he called ... he was told that they cannot contact her (probably, because she was vacationing or whatever) ... he knew by then she was engaged (or at least he figured it out himself) ... so it wasn't his intention to get her back, he wanted to discuss the issue about the whole experience and how she made him feel ... to get clarity but most importantly his peace.

About the closure ... (and MTA visit that I don't believe was much of his idea, beside they flew him in and set up the whole thing, even the talk between CH and Nick in CH's room was scripted)
imagining to be in Nick's shoes ...
He gets told in DR, by the girl, that she doesn't feel it, that it doesn't feel right, that he is analyzing to much, that he drags her down and she cannot relax with him, ...,
and he asks her "do you really think that?" ... and she confirms and puts more salt on the wound.
He goes home, on the plane he says he just left it at that, didn't want to argue... because he felt it a night before, he heard it then that morning from her mouth, she had a complete wrong picture of him... so he knows that they aren't IT ...
but he questions ... why did I feel like we were? ... was I imagining all that connection between us? ... where did I misread the signs?
- it's normal, we start to doubt ourselves ... and he probably was going crazy overthinking about every step of the way ... her action, her words and at the end coming to his room being a complete different person -
that's a inner turmoil he had all this time post filming, prior to ATFR, that's what his mom hoped he can get a closure with. His questions about why misleading him, why making him believe in all the connection when she didn't really get him (otherwise she wouldn't say those things to him on the day of the breakup)? And just like Eric, he was wondering when was she acting with him and when was she real? ... because if he felt a deep connection, which he never felt before, it is heartbreaking to know, that it wasn't real at all, because it was only one-sided, or in different words, it was an idea, since the person he "saw and understood" wasn't really the person 100% in.
And I believe that's the closure he needed to get. With her behavior, he got his answers.
I hope I explained better.

Thanks Happy, yes.    Lots of layers. And I agree that the process left Nick in turmoil.
I don't think Nick felt deceived at the time of the FS... he felt what they had was real.
I'm also not sure that Nick felt that Andi was lying in retrospect... he describes what they had in the extended E interview as passionate, emotional, etc...
I don't think Nick was faking when he came to the MTA; I saw real emotion from Nick and a real desire to speak with Andi to help him heal and get closure
I do agree that since the ATRF he acknowledges being led on by the process.... and particularly Andi's demeanor since she choose Josh... which has closed, cold and lacking in empathy.... and this finally gave him the insight and closure he needed!

[notarose]

Just read Sharleen's blog ... I actually agree with her in all but would like to say mine about one part and then I return to my silence on the matter:

"He didn't make any decisions or assumptions without encouragement or reason. So for him of all people to really let his walls down and expose his heart on national television only to have the rug pulled out from under him is all kinds of sick in my eyes.

THAT SAID, I do not blame Andi for this. I honestly believe Andi cared for Nick a lot. I believe in an alternate universe where there was no time limit and no Josh and just a different set of circumstances, she and Nick could have a fantastic, functional, and maybe even successful relationship." The red part - maybe, I wouldn't even go there with a thought. I truly believe these two were no match, didn't really understand each other as much as they thought or wanted us to believe and at the end it was clear to both of them - so imagining their relationship - I just can't.

Andi cared ... yes, past tense. She hates Nick now. And not just because of the video and subsequently spoiling HER season, but also because she believes in everything she heard about him. She doesn't believe in his genuineness, she doesn't believe he's being honest or modest or sincere. She sees herself as a victim of his game, that she had all the right to dump him as she did, which she did good and she congratulates herself - (and so do I, Andi, so do I )- that's why she had that kind of demeanor with him at the ATFR and that's why all the unnecessary words post-show.

Like I said before, I won't go into the manipulation talk ... there is plenty to say ... I do believe that Nick was heartbroken, but I also believe that the plane video was his most honest answer to her final choice. Everything else that happened later and discussed at ATFR was post-spoiler-show production.

To the red - oh dear, I have to disagree with you and side with Sharleen on this one.  Can we still be  ?   I think they are both flawed but loved watching their scenes which couldn't have had the passion and cleverness if one of them wasn't there.  Didn't happen though. She chose Josh.

Andi - she "hates" him now because she could be going through the stages of grief: Stage 2 - anger.  We could be witnessing an EPIC lovers quarrel.  :shocked!:  up to and including the ATFR was the first stage - denial.  You made excellent points in your second last paragraph.  Sounds like she thought he was "too good to be true" and questioning everything.  People don't bother if they themselves don't have an emotional investment.

I think production helped him by allowing him to do the interviews.  What he chose to say was all him.  He admitted in one interview that he realized he was polarizing and that he was aware of all the negative SM/media.  He smiled.  He continues to be his own leader.  He wasn't being manipulated or being manipulative rather he was explaining "why" because that's who is he. He's a talker.

  oh NR - so true to the bolded!!  
Interesting the discussion of stages of grief... so are you suggesting that Andi didn't really begin to mourn the loss of her relationship with Nick until ATFR?
also - Nick's not just a talker, but a thinker!!   

   yes, a thinker.  He thinks before he talks   

I think she went into denial mode when she broke off the relationship.  Continued by not agreeing to see him privately.  Masked herself at the ATFR which could have been the beginning of it all or when she refused to meet privately (if TPTB really did give the choice because I suspect they would have filmed that too as a condition). I would have never thought  of Kübler-Ross had she not responded a second time to the intimacy question with Josh standing beside her (a clip spliced into one of Nick's interviews).  Then her continuation in anger mode makes me suspect this even more strongly.

[isittrue]

Yes, I can buy into the theory that Andi had convinced herself that it was Josh but she also had strong feelings for Nick which frustrated and confused her. So she shut herself down emotionally after the FD so that she could protect herself from being hurt when she cut him loose. She continued to mask her feelings with a cold iciness so she would not break emotionally... maybe. Andi is just a hard person to read and like. Glad her season is over since the ending of this season has left me feeling pretty unsettled and uncomfortable right now. No happy ending feeling at all...

[SueSt]

To the red - oh dear, I have to disagree with you and side with Sharleen on this one.  Can we still be  ?   I think they are both flawed but loved watching their scenes which couldn't have had the passion and cleverness if one of them wasn't there.  Didn't happen though. She chose Josh.

Andi - she "hates" him now because she could be going through the stages of grief: Stage 2 - anger.  We could be witnessing an EPIC lovers quarrel.  :shocked!:  up to and including the ATFR was the first stage - denial.  You made excellent points in your second last paragraph.  Sounds like she thought he was "too good to be true" and questioning everything.  People don't bother if they themselves don't have an emotional investment.

I think production helped him by allowing him to do the interviews.  What he chose to say was all him.  He admitted in one interview that he realized he was polarizing and that he was aware of all the negative SM/media.  He smiled.  He continues to be his own leader.  He wasn't being manipulated or being manipulative rather he was explaining "why" because that's who is he. He's a talker.

  oh NR - so true to the bolded!!  
Interesting the discussion of stages of grief... so are you suggesting that Andi didn't really begin to mourn the loss of her relationship with Nick until ATFR?
also - Nick's not just a talker, but a thinker!!   

   yes, a thinker.  He thinks before he talks   

I think she went into denial mode when she broke off the relationship.  Continued by not agreeing to see him privately.  Masked herself at the ATFR which could have been the beginning of it all. I would have never thought  of Kübler-Ross had she not responded a second time to the intimacy question with Josh standing beside her (a clip spliced into one of Nick's interviews).  Then her continuation in anger mode makes me suspect this even more strongly.

thanks NR, that's a pretty interesting theory, actually.    

And supports what we saw:
Denial: Andi's coldness and lack of empathy since breaking off the relationship beginning in the DR
Anger: Her performance at the ATFR and in media since
Bargaining will be with Josh - to try and work out their relationship
Depression will be when it implodes and she's forced to deal with the consequence of her choices
Acceptance will be when she can understand and accept her choices in retrospect..

Makes a lot of sense... but sad, sad, sad... since she herself is the one that pulled the trigger!!  

[Kashathediva]

And she's the one who did the scorning in the first place! Hell hath no fury like a woman leading on and scorning a man and then getting scorned by the man being scorned and how dare anyone feel for or take the lied to scorned man's side!!!!!!!!!!! The audacity of it all!

I so agree w/you.  I have never seen a lead (bachelor or bachelorette) have such harsh/bad feelings for their F2.  Usually the lead is very emotional and apologetic when letting their F2 go.  Andi was neither of those things - not on the day of the FRC nor at ATFR.  I have heard some people say that maybe Andi acted the way she did because of Nick trying to contact her multiple times, but on the E! interview w/Ali tonight, someone said that Andi told Ali that Nick never tried to meet w/her.  So why such the poor treatment of Nick then?

THIS!  What did Nick do to deserve Andi's scorn?  And as you mention she was already ice cold to him on the FRC day.  
Despite her protestations, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Andi did actually fall in love with Nick... (her responses to him on their FD, the PIs in Dinant about her seeing him proposing at the end)
But whether she was in love with Nick or not (or willing to admit it or not), her demeanor on the FRC day and particularly ATFR defies explanation!

Anger and fear are very intense emotions.
I've learned through age and maturity to hit the "pause" button before reacting. It's difficult, but usually for the best. When I'm angry or have a resentment, I look at my involvement in the problem(because I do have my part to own) and how to be part of the solution.
Anger for me, usually breaks down to: "what am I afraid of and why?"
Being human, mistakes were made all around. MeandI probably would have been best off serving some deep dish empathy to Nick and softness. Either she could not or she could not give enough. Nick probably should have hit the pause button and allowed her to speak, soak it up and then move on.
The saying "silence is golden" says a lot--hopefully all parties will appreciate this soon.

[isittrue]

I so agree w/you.  I have never seen a lead (bachelor or bachelorette) have such harsh/bad feelings for their F2.  Usually the lead is very emotional and apologetic when letting their F2 go.  Andi was neither of those things - not on the day of the FRC nor at ATFR.  I have heard some people say that maybe Andi acted the way she did because of Nick trying to contact her multiple times, but on the E! interview w/Ali tonight, someone said that Andi told Ali that Nick never tried to meet w/her.  So why such the poor treatment of Nick then?

THIS!  What did Nick do to deserve Andi's scorn?  And as you mention she was already ice cold to him on the FRC day.  
Despite her protestations, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Andi did actually fall in love with Nick... (her responses to him on their FD, the PIs in Dinant about her seeing him proposing at the end)
But whether she was in love with Nick or not (or willing to admit it or not), her demeanor on the FRC day and particularly ATFR defies explanation!

Anger and fear are very intense emotions.
I've learned through age and maturity to hit the "pause" button before reacting. It's difficult, but usually for the best. When I'm angry or have a resentment, I look at my involvement in the problem(because I do have my part to own) and how to be part of the solution.
Anger for me, usually breaks down to: "what am I afraid of and why?"
Being human, mistakes were made all around. MeandI probably would have been best off serving some deep dish empathy to Nick and softness. Either she could not or she could not give enough. Nick probably should have hit the pause button and allowed her to speak, soak it up and then move on.
The saying "silence is golden" says a lot--hopefully all parties will appreciate this soon.

As usual, I agree with your post Kasha. Considering they are all adults, no one has acted like one during this whole sad situation which has no doubt created great joy for TPTB. Another reason for me to discourage my son or daughters to go on this show when they are older (assuming the show is around 15 years from now - which thankfully I doubt!)

[SueSt]

I so agree w/you.  I have never seen a lead (bachelor or bachelorette) have such harsh/bad feelings for their F2.  Usually the lead is very emotional and apologetic when letting their F2 go.  Andi was neither of those things - not on the day of the FRC nor at ATFR.  I have heard some people say that maybe Andi acted the way she did because of Nick trying to contact her multiple times, but on the E! interview w/Ali tonight, someone said that Andi told Ali that Nick never tried to meet w/her.  So why such the poor treatment of Nick then?

THIS!  What did Nick do to deserve Andi's scorn?  And as you mention she was already ice cold to him on the FRC day.  
Despite her protestations, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Andi did actually fall in love with Nick... (her responses to him on their FD, the PIs in Dinant about her seeing him proposing at the end)
But whether she was in love with Nick or not (or willing to admit it or not), her demeanor on the FRC day and particularly ATFR defies explanation!

Anger and fear are very intense emotions.
I've learned through age and maturity to hit the "pause" button before reacting. It's difficult, but usually for the best. When I'm angry or have a resentment, I look at my involvement in the problem(because I do have my part to own) and how to be part of the solution.
Anger for me, usually breaks down to: "what am I afraid of and why?"
Being human, mistakes were made all around. MeandI probably would have been best off serving some deep dish empathy to Nick and softness. Either she could not or she could not give enough. Nick probably should have hit the pause button and allowed her to speak, soak it up and then move on.
The saying "silence is golden" says a lot--hopefully all parties will appreciate this soon.

Really interesting comments, Kasha, particularly the bolded.  Thanks.
Still, more willing to give Nick the pass in this situation than Andi since:
1. Andi was the one making the decisions about F1 leaving Nick in shock
2. Andi also set the tone at the ATFR with her cold and unempathetic demeanor.

[mercieme]

Here are my foggy thoughts this morning, before I have even finished my first cup of coffee……

I don't think Nick will be the next Bachelor, because, in his own words, the infamous question, which naturally spills over to include Nick in general, was very "polarizing". Other years, I think Fleiss would have peed is pants for someone like Nick, but coming off of JP's season, I'd say he will play it safe. And as much as I'd love to see him on my TV each week, I am afraid he'd be bashed by a lot of people. He'd be loved by many, but again….polarizing.

I think JJ will provide us with plenty of weekend pictures….YAY!

I am still curious as to who set up all those interviews for Nick….and why?

TPTB (Megan Firestone one of the producers) & ABC publicity were seen with him at the GMA interview. So Andi saying he is being manipulative made me LOL. Everything he said on his media tour was approved by the powers that be at ABC. Nick is clearly not the problem here so Andi needs to redirect her anger at ABC if she had a problem with his media rounds

[nutty1]

Can someone please help me? I am looking for the origin of Cecelia's avi picture, or the original post that explains where it came from, or a link to it. I have looked but couldn't find it.
THANK YOU!

[sdmom]

So JJ arrived in Chicago before Nick did yesterday. That makes me think all these  media tours were scheduled later because of Nick's controversial ATFR. Media loves drama and controversies, and requested Nick. Has there ever a F2 on GMA?

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