Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion

nannymargie wrote:

Bet2Win wrote:Just caught up reading this thread and smgate.  If I were Josh's mother, there are several things that would cause me concern as his mother and I would discuss these things with him:

1.  The way Andi spoke to JPG after the FD.
2.  The way Andi spoke to Eric, and yelled at the rest of the guys.
3.  Sleeping with another man within a few days of getting engaged to my son.
4.  The hypocrisy she exhibited at the AFTR with Nick regarding what happens in the FS is private ~ she outed what happened in the FS with JPG.

If MM had this type of conversation with Josh, I could see it being problematic for Josh.

Well I guess Andi speaks her mind and good for her.  Could she handle things better  sure but we have all done things that we regret and which we could do different.

As far as #3 I am sure she would be more worried about pictures of Aaron on the internet of him with a girl.  To be honest I would think more of Andi knowing that she was completely honest with Josh about what happened with Nick knowing that Josh could have walked away and not propose. It was up to Josh on what he wanted to do with that information.  MM said that everyone has a past and Josh and Andi's relationship started the day he put a ring on her finger.

I just pop in from time to time to read, and I don't really follow all of the stuff very closely. I'm not entirely sure what is or is not an issue these days for Andi and Josh, and quite frankly, I don't even care to speculate. But, the line I've bolded above caught my eye.

It's true that MM, Josh, and Andi can all have the mindset that Josh and Andi's relationship started the day he put a ring on her finger, and that's fine with me if they choose to look at it that way. It's a weird reality tv dating show. That's their perogative. However, Andi's character didn't just appear on the day she got her ring. Her character is something she's been building her whole life. Her character is what has been the driving force behind all of her actions (as listed by the OP above). You can say that "Andi and Josh" started the day of the proposal, but "Andi" started 27 years prior. She is who she is. A relationship might change her in small ways, but her core had already been established way before she ever laid eyes on Josh. MM and Josh can choose to turn a blind eye to what occurred in Andi's life prior to the proposal, but, really, they're fooling noone but themselves. And every time there's just a morsel of friction between any of them, MM and Josh will turn and look over their shoulders at those little red flags they chose not to acknowledge. When somebody shows you who they are, you should believe them. Rose-colored glasses do no good.

MiaHawk wrote:

nannymargie wrote:

Bet2Win wrote:Just caught up reading this thread and smgate.  If I were Josh's mother, there are several things that would cause me concern as his mother and I would discuss these things with him:

1.  The way Andi spoke to JPG after the FD.
2.  The way Andi spoke to Eric, and yelled at the rest of the guys.
3.  Sleeping with another man within a few days of getting engaged to my son.
4.  The hypocrisy she exhibited at the AFTR with Nick regarding what happens in the FS is private ~ she outed what happened in the FS with JPG.

If MM had this type of conversation with Josh, I could see it being problematic for Josh.

Well I guess Andi speaks her mind and good for her.  Could she handle things better  sure but we have all done things that we regret and which we could do different.

As far as #3 I am sure she would be more worried about pictures of Aaron on the internet of him with a girl.  To be honest I would think more of Andi knowing that she was completely honest with Josh about what happened with Nick knowing that Josh could have walked away and not propose. It was up to Josh on what he wanted to do with that information.  MM said that everyone has a past and Josh and Andi's relationship started the day he put a ring on her finger.

I just pop in from time to time to read, and I don't really follow all of the stuff very closely.  I'm not entirely sure what is or is not an issue these days for Andi and Josh, and quite frankly, I don't even care to speculate.  But, the line I've bolded above caught my eye.  

It's true that MM, Josh, and Andi can all have the mindset that Josh and Andi's relationship started the day he put a ring on her finger, and that's fine with me if they choose to look at it that way.  It's a weird reality tv dating show.  That's their perogative.  However, Andi's character didn't just appear on the day she got her ring. Her character is something she's been building her whole life. Her character is what has been the driving force behind all of her actions (as listed by the OP above). You can say that "Andi and Josh" started the day of the proposal, but "Andi" started 27 years prior. She is who she is. A relationship might change her in small ways, but her core had already been established way before she ever laid eyes on Josh. MM and Josh can choose to turn a blind eye to what occurred in Andi's life prior to the proposal, but, really, they're fooling noone but themselves.  And every time there's just a morsel of friction between any of them, MM and Josh will turn and look over their shoulders at those little red flags they chose not to acknowledge. When somebody shows you who they are, you should believe them. Rose-colored glasses do no good.    

Mia, great post!  

All of the below is as always only my opinion.

I have been annoyed that Kacie started trouble because a tweet about a fictional character was an insult to Andi.  

The Murrays are a family that has survived cancer three times.  Josh himself had to accept that he wasn't going to be an MLB baseball player when his whole life he had been nothing but the best.  These are strong people who have gone through some really tough things. These things are fact.

If Andi is so upset that Kacie liked a FB post about her being the favorite or tweeted about a fictional character and that is enough to cause Josh to change HIS behavior, because that is truly the issue, that Josh is doing something different than what he did before.  Then shame on Josh.  Even if Andi is upset, he should have the life experience to help her see that things like that are tiny little hurts in life and not worth causing huge rifts over.  That people get life threatening diseases and lose their dreams, those are things to really be upset about.  Someone said something mean about you?  If you are a woman who proudly speaks her mind, then you better be ready to put on your big girl panties and deal with some people not liking you for it.  I joke that when people call me a b**** I say thank you and tell them they bring out the best in me.  My best boss ever likes to say, I am not a b****, I am THE B****, get it right.  You can't be someone who feels entitled to express their opinions on others freely and say what ever you want if you can't take it when not everyone likes it.  That is Andi's issues.  But Josh, you have lived through really sad and hard things (again I see this as fact since he and his family have talked about their past openly in interviews), for him to not see how insignificant these things are is disappointing, in my opinion.  He will never have this time with his family back and honestly with the family history of cancer, I would be a little concerned about not enjoying everyday with his parents that he could, which is my opinion based on my life experience. IF this is true, then shame on you Josh, if you let such petty things cause a problem with your family.  You aren't helping Andi at all if this is what you chose to highlight as something worth getting upset over.  

I may not be an Andi fan, but this I won't blame this on her, I expect better from the man I saw before this show. As always in my opinion.

MiaHawk wrote:

nannymargie wrote:

Bet2Win wrote:Just caught up reading this thread and smgate.  If I were Josh's mother, there are several things that would cause me concern as his mother and I would discuss these things with him:

1.  The way Andi spoke to JPG after the FD.
2.  The way Andi spoke to Eric, and yelled at the rest of the guys.
3.  Sleeping with another man within a few days of getting engaged to my son.
4.  The hypocrisy she exhibited at the AFTR with Nick regarding what happens in the FS is private ~ she outed what happened in the FS with JPG.

If MM had this type of conversation with Josh, I could see it being problematic for Josh.

Well I guess Andi speaks her mind and good for her.  Could she handle things better  sure but we have all done things that we regret and which we could do different.

As far as #3 I am sure she would be more worried about pictures of Aaron on the internet of him with a girl.  To be honest I would think more of Andi knowing that she was completely honest with Josh about what happened with Nick knowing that Josh could have walked away and not propose. It was up to Josh on what he wanted to do with that information.  MM said that everyone has a past and Josh and Andi's relationship started the day he put a ring on her finger.

I just pop in from time to time to read, and I don't really follow all of the stuff very closely.  I'm not entirely sure what is or is not an issue these days for Andi and Josh, and quite frankly, I don't even care to speculate.  But, the line I've bolded above caught my eye.  

It's true that MM, Josh, and Andi can all have the mindset that Josh and Andi's relationship started the day he put a ring on her finger, and that's fine with me if they choose to look at it that way.  It's a weird reality tv dating show.  That's their perogative.  However, Andi's character didn't just appear on the day she got her ring. Her character is something she's been building her whole life. Her character is what has been the driving force behind all of her actions (as listed by the OP above). You can say that "Andi and Josh" started the day of the proposal, but "Andi" started 27 years prior. She is who she is. A relationship might change her in small ways, but her core had already been established way before she ever laid eyes on Josh. MM and Josh can choose to turn a blind eye to what occurred in Andi's life prior to the proposal, but, really, they're fooling noone but themselves.  And every time there's just a morsel of friction between any of them, MM and Josh will turn and look over their shoulders at those little red flags they chose not to acknowledge. When somebody shows you who they are, you should believe them. Rose-colored glasses do no good.    

Well said, Mia. I haven't been following this either and am not the least bit invested in this couple. I do think it's possibly a red flag because at some point Josh could regret distancing himself from his family (if that's what he's doing of course) and blame Andi. I used to like her but am seeng what many others did before and now believe she's all about her feelings at the expense of others. Jen Shefft was like that earlier on but you can't do that when you're a wife & mother so there's still hope for Andi.

I heard that Andi said she's not going back to law. Is that true?

^ The opposite. Andi has said more than once in recent interviews that she definitely plans on going back to law, but it will not be in her ADA position.

Ash2214 wrote:^ The opposite. Andi has said more than once in recent interviews that she definitely plans on going back to law, but it will not be in her ADA position.

Thanks, Ash. I'd be very disappointed if she gave up on it so soon.

albean99 wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:^ The opposite. Andi has said more than once in recent interviews that she definitely plans on going back to law, but it will not be in her ADA position.

Thanks, Ash. I'd be very disappointed if she gave up on it so soon.

No problem and I agree. From the interviews that I saw where she mentioned it, she definitely seemed genuine when talking about it and how much she missed it. I think she probably feels lucky right now that at only 27, she can kind of have some freedom a bit and know at the same time she'll always have her law degree, so when things die down, she can return to it.

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MM and Josh can choose to turn a blind eye to what occurred in Andi's life prior to the proposal, but, really, they're fooling noone but themselves. And every time there's just a morsel of friction between any of them, MM and Josh will turn and look over their shoulders at those little red flags they chose not to acknowledge. When somebody shows you who they are, you should believe them. Rose-colored glasses do no good.

Gosh Mia, as usual your analysis and ability to describe it so perfectly blows me away.   I just love reading your explanations because they are so insightful. You beautifully summarize everything.
Yes, Bet  - if I were Josh's mom I'd be very concerned.  Bingo. You nailed that list of worries. Frankly, I'd have been losing sleep about it for months.

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I love that Kacie and Aaron are actually moving forward and planning something. Generally, the very first move in wedding planning is making a tentative list so you can plan on specific venue and date availability. Good for them!

^^ agreed Kasha. I was engaged for 2 years before my wedding and I pretty much started planning within 2 months of being engaged. Where I live it is hard to book venues and everything else with a year or a year and a half so to it makes sense for a 2016 wedding u start planning now.

Andi and Josh are in a more unique situation as if their wedding is being paid by ABC they don't need as much time to plan as they will have a celebrity wedding planner and everything laid out for them by the network.

Kacie and Aaron makes much more sense then them being engaged and nothing changing.

stuckinsc wrote:Okay, I am trying to play nice.  But, I truly don't understand the need to make fun of or bash members of the Murray family to uplift Josh and Andi.

None of us know why Andi and Josh aren't spending more time around the Murrays, I can speculate stuff that puts the blame on J&A others can speculate stuff that blames the Murrays, but all of us are speculating.

What I do know is that Andi and Kacie are both brides to be.  They are both allowed to handle wedding planning in anyway they chose.  Many brides I know take a year to a year and a half to plan weddings as venues are booked early as well as the quality photographers, etc.  Why can't both women plan their weddings their way without it being an affront to the other.  I am not saying that either of them have complained about the other, but that as fans complaining is occurring.  

Weddings are joyful things, so why not positivity why the need to be negative about either Andi or Kacie?

As far as MM visiting KC.  She is invited and has always posted about her travels with her children.  Why can she not post what she wants about her children without criticism from this board.

We don't know if she is choosing not to visit J&A or has not been invited.  I don't care either way, but she is enjoying the time with the children who want her around, and why shouldn't she.

I can't believe that Josh would enjoy anyone posting negative things about his family.  To me it is rude to him and the other Murrays.

To be fair to other posters, aren't you technically doing the same thing? You're asking others not to bash, speculate or post negative things about Josh's family because Lauren and Josh wouldn't like that, but you've done what you're asking others not to do in regards to Josh and Andi. Everyone can certainly post what they wish. I might agree with it and I might not, but I'm not asking people to stop speculating or posting their thoughts whether negative or positive. They're allowed to do so.

I personally have no issue with Kacie planning her wedding. Creating a tentative list is a good idea as it gives them opportunities to figure things out. I understand why some people are speculating on certain things though, such as posting on IG asking about DJ's, food etc. It's two years away. I think they can wait a little bit on that.