Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion

Luvvy wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:When we have control to help someone find closure to someone who is hurt, IMO as a common courtesy, because we are only here for a good time and not a long time, it's the decent thing to do. Just the way I roll in life. Compassion is first regardless of the situation.

Whether Andi felt it was real with Nick or not, she should have felt some sort of compassion letting him go, for either leading him on, or for the good relationship she did have with him. It's like she purposely held back any logical reasoning.

While Josh was over the moon during the FRC, I didn't find her totally into the moment like he was. She has proven without a doubt, don't voice your opinions to her, don't say anything she doesn't want to hear. Josh has the ability to inject humour in serious discussions, which I love. I hope there doesn't come a time when she throws that back in his face.

The bold part is very true. I obviously can understand Andi being emotionally spent and hurt but I can also understand it from Nick's pov (even though I totally disagree with his revelation at atfr). Unfortunately for all three of them this all spilled over into tabloids and became messier than it needed to be. But you're so right in saying we are not here for a long time. That's the perspective all of them and everyone for that matter should take when it comes to matters of the heart.

I so agree. GA--that first paragraph says it all.
Then we see the "Eric Effect" --which I do not mean to trivialize or minimize. I had this effect when I was 22 and my 18 y.o. brother was killed. I know what something like that can do to a family and myself firsthand. It changes your life from that point on.
Life is too short. All we can wish for anyone else is a happy journey and personally, I don't want to rain on someone's parade.
I often say to myself: "would I rather be right or happy." Hands down--I want to be happy. When it comes to life issues: "is this the hill I want to die on?". Nope.
Life is too short. Eat more ice cream.   Kiss more babies.

We can debate this until we're blue in the face, but Andi's story is that at the time of her FD with Nick, she didn't realize she was already in love with Josh. Believe her or not, but according to her, she didn't sleep with Nick knowing she would never love him or choose him.

GuardianAngel wrote:When we have control to help someone find closure to someone who is hurt, IMO as a common courtesy, because we are only here for a good time and not a long time, it's the decent thing to do. Just the way I roll in life. Compassion is first regardless of the situation.

Whether Andi felt it was real with Nick or not, she should have felt some sort of compassion letting him go, for either leading him on, or for the good relationship she did have with him. It's like she purposely held back any logical reasoning.

While Josh was over the moon during the FRC, I didn't find her totally into the moment like he was. She has proven without a doubt, don't voice your opinions to her, don't say anything she doesn't want to hear. Josh has the ability to inject humour in serious discussions, which I love. I hope there doesn't come a time when she throws that back in his face.

So agree w/your post! That is why I was so taken aback by Andi's lack of compassion or attempt to provide closure to Nick on ATFR. He has stated that her demeanor did provide him the closure he was lacking before. I can't remember another lead that had a similar demeanor with their F2. Usually they are very contrite and sympathetic and want to provide closure so that everyone is able to move on.

Sable wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:When we have control to help someone find closure to someone who is hurt, IMO as a common courtesy, because we are only here for a good time and not a long time, it's the decent thing to do. Just the way I roll in life. Compassion is first regardless of the situation.

So agree w/your post!  That is why I was so taken aback by Andi's lack of compassion or attempt to provide closure to Nick on ATFR.  He has stated that her demeanor did provide him the closure he was lacking before.  I can't remember another lead that had a similar demeanor with their F2.  Usually they are very contrite and sympathetic and want to provide closure so that everyone is able to move on.

I've spent quite a bit of time carefully watching the scene shot in SD where Andi broke it off with Nick. She was emotional, soft, compassionate and gave Nick a clearly articulated reason for shy she didn't believe their relationship was right. She even related how she felt to the situation that Nick himself had experienced on his own and compared her reasons for breaking it off with Nick to Nick's reasons for breaking off his own past engagement. And though not in so many words she effectively told Nick that it was Josh. She gave Nick an unambiguous answer which was probably better closure than I've ever seen any lead ever give. And almost nothing of what Andi said sank in to Nick; if he didn't understand her reasons he had the perfect opportunity to ask for clarification but instead he somewhat argumentatively picked on Andi for things she said or did.

Since that night in SD, Andi has most probably seen a lot more of Nick and things he's said about her and things he's said about Josh who by now is her alter ego (reference the plane video and the deleted scene with Brian and Nick's interactions with the other guys which she would not have been privy to during filming). And she's got a lot of reasons to be angry with Nick because of what he said. The very fact that Nick said it was her demeanor at the ATFR that gave him the closure he didn't get says that what he really needed a smack with a 2 x 4 alongside the head to make it sink in. In which case Andi did what she had to do when compassion didn't work.

Sable wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:When we have control to help someone find closure to someone who is hurt, IMO as a common courtesy, because we are only here for a good time and not a long time, it's the decent thing to do. Just the way I roll in life. Compassion is first regardless of the situation.

Whether Andi felt it was real with Nick or not, she should have felt some sort of compassion letting him go, for either leading him on, or for the good relationship she did have with him. It's like she purposely held back any logical reasoning.

While Josh was over the moon during the FRC, I didn't find her totally into the moment like he was. She has proven without a doubt, don't voice your opinions to her, don't say anything she doesn't want to hear. Josh has the ability to inject humour in serious discussions, which I love. I hope there doesn't come a time when she throws that back in his face.

So agree w/your post!  That is why I was so taken aback by Andi's lack of compassion or attempt to provide closure to Nick on ATFR.  He has stated that her demeanor did provide him the closure he was lacking before.  I can't remember another lead that had a similar demeanor with their F2.  Usually they are very contrite and sympathetic and want to provide closure so that everyone is able to move on.

I would like to point out that Emily was equally cold to Arie at the ATFR. She did not even read Arie's diary. The difference between Arie and Nick lies in the fact that Arie kept it together and never blurted out in public why Emily slept with him if she was not in love with him whereas Nick appeared emotionally distraught and wasn't able to think through the consequences before he asked Andi on live TV.

Good point about Emily. Whether Andi would have been more compassionate at ATFR had Nick not tried to contact her, change her mind and badmouthed her fiance, we'll never know but these circumstances were certainly unique and unlike past seasons.

Lucas15 wrote:

Sable wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:When we have control to help someone find closure to someone who is hurt, IMO as a common courtesy, because we are only here for a good time and not a long time, it's the decent thing to do. Just the way I roll in life. Compassion is first regardless of the situation.

So agree w/your post!  That is why I was so taken aback by Andi's lack of compassion or attempt to provide closure to Nick on ATFR.  He has stated that her demeanor did provide him the closure he was lacking before.  I can't remember another lead that had a similar demeanor with their F2.  Usually they are very contrite and sympathetic and want to provide closure so that everyone is able to move on.

I've spent quite a bit of time carefully watching the scene shot in SD where Andi broke it off with Nick. She was emotional, soft, compassionate and gave Nick a clearly articulated reason for shy she didn't believe their relationship was right. She even related how she felt to the situation that Nick himself had experienced on his own and compared her reasons for breaking it off with Nick to Nick's reasons for breaking off his own past engagement. And though not in so many words she effectively told Nick that it was Josh. She gave Nick an unambiguous answer which was probably better closure than I've ever seen any lead ever give. And almost nothing of what Andi said sank in to Nick; if he didn't understand her reasons he had the perfect opportunity to ask for clarification but instead he somewhat argumentatively picked on Andi for things she said or did.

Since that night in SD, Andi has most probably seen a lot more of Nick and things he's said about her and things he's said about Josh who by now is her alter ego (reference the plane video and the deleted scene with Brian and Nick's interactions with the other guys which she would not have been privy to during filming). And she's got a lot of reasons to be angry with Nick because of what he said. The very fact that Nick said it was her demeanor at the ATFR that gave him the closure he didn't get says that what he really needed a smack with a 2 x 4 alongside the head to make it sink in. In which case Andi did what she had to do when compassion didn't work.

Hello Lucas! You've always been the voice of reason even during Sean's season. I am able to see the situation from Andi's point of view, her having already seen from all the episodes how Nick was to all the other guys, how he dissed Josh in one of the deleted scenes. I am more surprised that she stayed calm and collected when we know she is very capable of engaging in an all out tongue-lashing confrontation with anyone who angers her!

I am not a frequent poster but I did post earlier about where were the psychologists for Nick both before the selection of bach's and after his elimination. I have to remind myself that this is a game show that more often than not ends in a train wreck at some point. Again, the basic premise is that, boy meets girl or vice versa and selects one for an engagement. The key part of the "game" is that one poor soul has to be deceived and essentially gets kicked to the curb. That is part of the game and they understand this from the start or they should. We have be led to believe there is a fully battery of psychological testing done for each candidate and availability of counseling. What psychologist would deem Nick worthy of competition after hearing how difficult his broken engagement was for him? All for the Game.

JMO but if the "final decision" were that close and difficult, how come of all the couples who have gone their separate ways, only Jason & Molly even dated after the selected couple fell apart. If I had such a difficult decision to make and determined that I had made a huge mistake, I would move mountains to try and reconnect with a person who I thought I might be in love with. I might get rejected by him but I would sure try. I obviously can't say for certain that no other couple has tried but with all the media I think we would have heard about it, unless I just missed it.

PLo(prince Lorenzo) dumped Jen the F1 and dated Sadie the F2 briefly.

nuts2uiam wrote:I am not a frequent poster but I did post earlier about where were the psychologists for Nick both before the selection of bach's and after his elimination.  I have to remind myself that this is a game show that more often than not ends in a train wreck at some point.  Again, the basic premise is that, boy meets girl or vice versa and selects one for an engagement.  The key part of the "game" is that one poor soul has to be deceived and essentially gets kicked to the curb.  That is part of the game  and they understand this from the start or they should.  We have be led to believe there is a fully battery of psychological testing done for each candidate and availability of counseling.  What psychologist would deem Nick worthy of competition after hearing how difficult his broken engagement was for him?  All for the Game.

JMO but if the "final decision" were that close and difficult, how come of all the couples who have gone their separate ways, only Jason & Molly even dated after the selected couple fell apart.  If I had such a difficult decision to make and determined that I had made a huge mistake, I would move mountains to try and reconnect with a person who I thought I might be in love with.  I might get rejected by him but I would sure try.  I obviously can't say for certain that no other couple has tried but with all the media I think we would have heard about it, unless I just missed it.

I won't go so far as to say he was in love with her, but I did hear Lorenzo dated Sadie after & and Jennifer split which was almost immediately (as Kasha said). I have a feeling that the farther away from being in the bubble, the farther away the memories of the feelings between them. Jason & Melissa split within a month or so of the finale so not surprised that he and Molly were able to start a relationship.

It's been my belief for a long time that the f2 person isn't totally able to move on because not many know that they're not f1. Nick was the frontrunner for a lot of the season and I know a lot of people (unspoiled) who thought he was f1. Then they watch the final episode and the feelings all come flooding back like ripping off a bandaid. I think the ATFR is designed that way to garner the most emotions. I'm sure they're also prepped by producers encouraging their hard feelings for the lead. I know I haven't always been that sympathetic towards the f2 or 3 when I've liked the final couple but I feel bad about that. It's easy to just want them to go away so you can enjoy the happy happy but this is the unfair part about the show. Unfortunately they're manipulating real people with real feelings.

Andi not only came into the ATFR knowing about the video and the several attempts he made to see her ., but she also watched the show and saw the not so nice parts of Nick as well. So it dosen't surprise me that her guard was up. He admits that She never told him she loved him so I guess she had a little to much to drink that night. :hidingchair  regardless Im just glad that Josh knows he was the last one she was intimate with on the show in their FS, she picked him gave HIM the FR , is in love with HIM and they can put all past relationships behind them. Zero respect for Nick and what he did. No class

GuardianAngel wrote:When we have control to help someone find closure to someone who is hurt, IMO as a common courtesy, because we are only here for a good time and not a long time, it's the decent thing to do. Just the way I roll in life. Compassion is first regardless of the situation.

Whether Andi felt it was real with Nick or not, she should have felt some sort of compassion letting him go, for either leading him on, or for the good relationship she did have with him. It's like she purposely held back any logical reasoning.

While Josh was over the moon during the FRC, I didn't find her totally into the moment like he was. She has proven without a doubt, don't voice your opinions to her, don't say anything she doesn't want to hear. Josh has the ability to inject humour in serious discussions, which I love. I hope there doesn't come a time when she throws that back in his face.

You know, after the incident with Eric and then his passing, and them showing the CH Eric chat and grieving session, you would have thought that perhaps Andi would have learned that life is short and never to assume that you'll have another chance to smooth things over. She was crying, "I can't believe I kicked him out. I can't believe that was my last conversation with him." What she didn't do with Eric was listen to his feelings and try to see things from his point of view. She heard a criticism and immediately shut down emotionally and went into pitbull mode. Then she repeated this with Nick post show. What if something horrible happened/s to Nick post ATFR, will she have the same kind of regrets? Why the mean girl, Andi? It's not attractive. It's off putting to me.