Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion

albean99 wrote:I don't think Andi had sex with JP however she was out of line for "outing" Clare on ATFR. It wasn't her place to do that since she wasn't there.

I agree but IMO it wasn't Andi who outed Clare - Clare outed herself when she told the story of what JPG had said to her in the helicopter, the complete details of which were released by the producers and IMO that's where Andi got them because she never had a chance to talk to Clare directly until after the AFR. There is actually a pattern connecting Andi, Clare and Nikki because Andi's big beef with JPG was that he never took the time to learn anything about her and Clare's beef was that in part what JPG said to her was "I don't know you but ..." and on CT JPG said to Nikki that the reason he has never said ILY to her was that he really didn't know her that well.

stuckinsc wrote:They have had other contestants leave because they are not into the lead and since they are allowed to say and do whatever they want without the cameras in the FS, why is that she couldn't have told him something in the FS?

I don't know that any of us really know what was or wasn't said in the FS - we only have opinions on what we think was or wasn't said. IMO everyone who leaves on their own does so only in the way that the producers want it to be shown. Graham left DeAnna's season because he wanted to but it was shown that DeAnna didn't give him a rose. At least one of the girls on Ben's season was shown not getting a rose but in fact she wanted to leave (because she wasn't into Ben) before then and was made to stay until a RC but someone else was shown to leave on her own before that same RC. For that matter Lindzi and Nicki didn't even want to go to Switzerland but the show made them so eliminations would appear to follow the "normal" pattern. IMO Departures from the series are as orchestrated by the producers as anything else if not more so; contestants do have the ability to withdraw if they want to but they can only do it when and in a way that the producers determine.

I agree, Lucas.  That clause is put in there as a threat to contestants that if they want to leave, they have to do it the way the producers want them to or suffer the consequences.  I honestly never believed Andi was all that close to falling for JPG, and was just going along for the ride (as many do) to see what might happen (and get some free travel while she was doing it).  And it's possible that the producers may have already hinted to Andi about the possibility of being the next lead (I think she was the obvious choice out of JPG's top four), and knew that if she wanted the gig, she was going to have to play nice with them and do their bidding.  Picking a fight with JPG in the privacy of the FS certainly wasn't going to accomplish that so she said nothing and played along.  If she voiced her opinions the next day to producers about what a disaster she thought the overnight was, it's likely they concocted the scenario that then played out, using it as her "audition".

For me personally, at the time, I thought it made Andi look bad, and I was actually on JPG's side, but knowing how heavy the producers' hands are on everything, I also wasn't going to brand Andi as a horrible person because she went along with it.  Most of them do under the circumstances.

ironcat wrote:I agree, Lucas.  That clause is put in there as a threat to contestants that if they want to leave, they have to do it the way the producers want them to or suffer the consequences.  I honestly never believed Andi was all that close to falling for JPG, and was just going along for the ride (as many do) to see what might happen (and get some free travel while she was doing it).  And it's possible that the producers may have already hinted to Andi about the possibility of being the next lead (I think she was the obvious choice out of JPG's top four), and knew that if she wanted the gig, she was going to have to play nice with them and do their bidding.  Picking a fight with JPG in the privacy of the FS certainly wasn't going to accomplish that so she said nothing and played along.  If she voiced her opinions the next day to producers about what a disaster she thought the overnight was, it's likely they concocted the scenario that then played out, using it as her "audition".

For me personally, at the time, I thought it made Andi look bad, and I was actually on JPG's side, but knowing how heavy the producers' hands are on everything, I also wasn't going to brand Andi as a horrible person because she went along with it.  Most of them do under the circumstances.

She chose to play along to be the bachelorette. That is her choice, but I just think speak up at the time. Constantine left before the FS part of his date with Ashley. While the producers could sue, that would be really bad press. I think Andi played along because she wanted to be the bachelorette. I didn't like her choice. I don't like Andi for many reasons, but that for me was the start. I did try to keep an open mind, but just don't like the person I have seen on my tv. In person, I may find her awesome, but since she decided to go on tv twice, that is all of I have to make an opinion on.

stuckinsc wrote:Constantine left before the FS part of his date with Ashley.

Just to set the record straight on Dino (from reliable sources) Dino left when and how he did because that was what the producers wanted. Ashley planned to take Dino to F2 and had talked to Dino who was willing to play along with her. The producers got wind of this and knew they couldn't get a proposal from Dino so they made him leave before the FD leaving Ashley with no other way out than to take Ben to F2. This change was actually admitted to in a CH blog where he said a surprise exit changed the order of the final 2 - which it did; but it wasn't a surprise (except maybe to Ashley - I don't know about her); it was what the producers wanted.

I know this is a bit off topic but I think it's important to realize just how heavy the hands of the producers are on everything that we see. Again IMO this clause is a good example of a scare tactic (it would be a disaster for the show to actually sue for breach of contract) - put in there to (for all intents and purposes) coerce the cast to do what they want done so they can put on the show they want to put on.

Lucas15 wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:Constantine left before the FS part of his date with Ashley.

Just to set the record straight on Dino (from reliable sources) Dino left when and how he did because that was what the producers wanted. Ashley planned to take Dino to F2 and had talked to Dino who was willing to play along with her. The producers got wind of this and knew they couldn't get a proposal from Dino so they made him leave before the FD leaving Ashley with no other way out than to take Ben to F2. This change was actually admitted to in a CH blog where he said a surprise exit changed the order of the final 2 - which it did; but it wasn't a surprise (except maybe to Ashley - I don't know about her); it was what the producers wanted.

I know this is a bit off topic but I think it's important to realize just how heavy the hands of the producers are on everything that we see. Again IMO this clause is a good example of a scare tactic (it would be a disaster for the show to actually sue for breach of contract) - put in there to (for all intents and purposes) coerce the cast to do what they want done so they can put on the show they want to put on.

Oh, that's so interesting! I had heard about that, but I thought it was just a rumor that had never been verified.

I do think that JP probably slept with Andi. Sex seems to be a really casual thing to him, not something that's indicative of love and commitment.  He also seemed really confident after their FS, which I don't think he would have been if she had turned him down. Also, didn't they show Andi in the promos for the WTA saying something like "I just closed my eyes and thought of England". I don't know if they actually ended up showing it though.

chasingpavements wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:Constantine left before the FS part of his date with Ashley.

Just to set the record straight on Dino (from reliable sources) Dino left when and how he did because that was what the producers wanted. Ashley planned to take Dino to F2 and had talked to Dino who was willing to play along with her. The producers got wind of this and knew they couldn't get a proposal from Dino so they made him leave before the FD leaving Ashley with no other way out than to take Ben to F2. This change was actually admitted to in a CH blog where he said a surprise exit changed the order of the final 2 - which it did; but it wasn't a surprise (except maybe to Ashley - I don't know about her); it was what the producers wanted.

I know this is a bit off topic but I think it's important to realize just how heavy the hands of the producers are on everything that we see. Again IMO this clause is a good example of a scare tactic (it would be a disaster for the show to actually sue for breach of contract) - put in there to (for all intents and purposes) coerce the cast to do what they want done so they can put on the show they want to put on.

Oh, that's so interesting! I had heard about that, but I thought it was just a rumor that had never been verified.

I do think that JP probably slept with Andi. Sex seems to be a really casual thing to him, not something that's indicative of love and commitment.  He also seemed really confident after their FS, which I don't think he would have been if she had turned him down. Also, didn't they show Andi in the promos for the WTA saying something like "I just closed my eyes and thought of England". I don't know if they actually ended up showing it though.

I don't like Andi, but with her being so angry with him, I just can't see her having sex with him. I don't think we will ever know for sure and I don't honestly care. I like JPG and hope CT helps him and Nikki.

Andi got her Josh and hopefully for her they work out.

Why are we talking about Juan pablo in the Andi and Josh thread? Andi and Nikki are very close. Juan and Andi.... not so much. ;)

Andi and Josh are very happy. Juan and Nikki.... time will tell. Both couples are living their life and happy. Certainly not worried about who Juan or Andi slept with. ;)

soccermom333 wrote:Why are we talking about Juan pablo in the Andi and Josh thread?  Andi and Nikki are very close.  Juan and Andi.... not so much.  ;)

Andi and Josh are very happy.  Juan and Nikki....  time will tell.  Both couples are living their life and happy.  Certainly not worried about who Juan or Andi slept with.   ;)

It is a general discussion thread. Thought since there is still an Andi general discussion thread, it would be better there.

I think maybe we should talk about Juan in the Nikki and Juan thread on CT.

soccermom333 wrote:I think maybe we should talk about Juan in the Nikki and Juan thread on CT.  

But if people want to discuss if JPG slept with Andi or not, it also belongs in an Andi thread. Doesn't matter as we will never know and both have moved past it.

stuckinsc wrote:

soccermom333 wrote:I think maybe we should talk about Juan in the Nikki and Juan thread on CT.  

But if people want to discuss if JPG slept with Andi or not, it also belongs in an Andi thread.  Doesn't matter as we will never know and both have moved past it.

Seems pretty distasteful and speculative at best in any thread to me, but certainly doesn't pertain to the title of this one.

Relalou wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

soccermom333 wrote:I think maybe we should talk about Juan in the Nikki and Juan thread on CT.  

But if people want to discuss if JPG slept with Andi or not, it also belongs in an Andi thread.  Doesn't matter as we will never know and both have moved past it.

Seems pretty distasteful and speculative at best in any thread to me, but certainly doesn't pertain to the title of this one.

Exactly. The Juan discussion thread has been bumped. ;) Josh is such a great man and I know he would not want his name on any thread that discusses who Andi slept with, especially if it is Juan. JMHO