Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - MTP-LCD-FRC- July 28/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* #2 - Discussion

soccermom333 wrote:

grace8136 wrote:@jlccaz- Someone said on here that he did not go to Mexico, but that he attempted to call her and CH said she couldn't talk because she is in Mexico. Which is correct?

I don't have a hard time believing what you're saying, but does that mean that Andi slept with Nick only for strategy? cuz... ick, if so.

I actually don't think Andi knew Josh was in it for the long haul until the FS.  She told him at dinner, after he professed his love, "It is good to hear you say that.... I never thought you would say those things."  This date was after Nick's date.  Of course she had real feelings for Nick, just not as strong as the ones for Josh.  

grace8136 wrote:@jlccaz- Someone said on here that he did not go to Mexico, but that he attempted to call her and CH said she couldn't talk because she is in Mexico. Which is correct?

I don't have a hard time believing what you're saying, but does that mean that Andi slept with Nick only for strategy? cuz... ick, if so.

jlccaz wrote:

grace8136 wrote:@jlccaz- Someone said on here that he did not go to Mexico, but that he attempted to call her and CH said she couldn't talk because she is in Mexico. Which is correct?

I don't have a hard time believing what you're saying, but does that mean that Andi slept with Nick only for strategy? cuz... ick, if so.

I think you're probably right, grace8136.  I looked at Harrison's blog and he says when Nick called him, that ANDI was on vacation.  That makes me feel somewhat better!  (THough still, that Milwaukee segment, and the MTA segment, are so incredibly PRODUCED (keeping the JPG CAPS GOING, ) I stand by my gut.  Paid Talent.

Kashathediva wrote:And in the season of writing letters--she could have resorted to that!
Personally, if it had been me, I would have done some kind of smoothing over prior to a live ATFR. You never know what can happen live.  
From the mouth of Stephen King/Lee Childs--hope for the best, plan for the worst.

charriotoffire wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:And in the season of writing letters--she could have resorted to that!
Personally, if it had been me, I would have done some kind of smoothing over prior to a live ATFR. You never know what can happen live.  
From the mouth of Stephen King/Lee Childs--hope for the best, plan for the worst.

I was wondering about this too.  I didn't follow the whole season but I just thought she was too cold and dismissive to someone she
had sex with before dropping him like a hot potato.  

Having sex with someone as intense and stalkerish like Nick before being engaged to someone else is asking for it, she gave him a
bunch of ammo.  This is why a bunny was boiled in Fatal Attraction, because Alex cannot be ignored.  

And I might be too naive but making love to someone who 'loves' you is a very powerful thing.   Andi is just too arrogant to say "Im sorry but
you being**edited** in the fantasy suite  doesn't mean I love you back"   Nick, was probably hung up on the details of their making love, like any stalkers tend to do. **Edited**

Andi is not in love with Josh too.   She recited some cheesy line   about her being in love with Josh  "since the first time she laid her eyes on him"  What bull!  That's why you felt it was necessary to **Edited**another man before you accept Neil Lane's expensive ring.

Why is Josh settling for this?  Is there no other woman in Atlanta that will not make him look like a fool?  




You are entitled to your opinion, but Andi is madly in love with Josh.  Time will tell if they actually marry but I wish them the best.  Josh is a smart man and would not be "sneaking" around Atlanta everyday for the past 2 and 1/2 months if the feelings were not reciprocated.  I have a feeling they will continue to grow even closer as time goes on and we will be watching their wedding.  Well maybe just some of us will be watching.....  me for sure.  

Rosepetal wrote:It is as simple as this Andi slept with a guy she might be getting engaged to because the one she really wanted hadn't said he loved her but was falling in love with her. The "I love you" from Josh didn't come until the fantasy date. Up to that time she was still skeptical because  Josh had already told her the next person he said "I.L.U" was the one he was going to marry and he hadn't told her that yet. If he didn't tell her IMO Josh might have been F-2. This whole season has been about Andi trusting Josh with her heart. She didn't get the reassurance until the fantasy date with Josh. If he had told her sooner Nick might not have even got to F-2.

soccermom333 wrote:

jlccaz wrote:You can have the Usual Level Of Sympathy that Nick was deceived by production in 1000 ways big and small over a period of weeks such that he could credibly be presented in footage as the FRONT-RUNNER -- him saying that all the time and acting that way causes the viewer to project WINNER vibe onto him, and colors how his time with the Lead is experienced when watching.  "Here is Andi's favorite" one thinks, as he says it, and the guys complain about it.  Creates doubt about whether to trust what you're seeing between Andi and Josh or others.

I think Nick thought he was front-runner because he was PRODUCED to believe that and Andi  was herself PRODUCED to deliver the requisite amount of footage to back that up ... including because he was someone to whom she had a genuine attachment and attraction That said, if you watch her, not him stammering around about "going to marry" and "crazy about", she isn't really returning 100% in many of the key scenes we saw.  When she says "I had to go through all the steps" and Chris Harrison says the same, that is echoing the constant refrain of what handlers and producers tell them throughout.  "You need to build many relationships with as many as you can, being real in each moment, and going with the flow/having fun with each, so that you don't get to the end and be humiliated that your favorite got cold feet and you flopped as the Bachelorette to whom no man would propose."  Wow. That's a heavy threat.  So the Lead, especially this one, is hugely motivated out of self-preservation to have more than one romance happening in tandem.  They have to air 2 hours of programming on the night of the finale, so she has no choice but to go through a bunch of scenes with #2 over the last days -- meeting of parents, some % of a LCD, etc.  There are a lot of heavy conversations with the lead fighting for the right to dump #2  before completely humiliating and pointless Neil Lane, get dressed for FRC, or FRC footage gets shot.  That deprives the producers of that Mesnick or Andy Baldwin footage, after dumping the #2 at the "altar" so to speak ... so you know they have to fight.

I look at it like this ... Andi's literal j-o-b for which she was paid whatever amount of moolah, and all the freebies and media spotlight, was to have at least 4 guys eager to introduce her to their families, 3 willing to spend the night, and 2 willing to propose.  That's a ton of pressure.  And you don't get there without help from producers.  They massively manipulate the cast, manipulate the lead, manipulate the footage, add soundtracks later to set various moods, and literally feed lines through leading questions during and after filming for ITMs.  

Anyway, back to where her head was at ... an Example of PRODUCTION over actual RELATIONSHIP, fairly late in the Game is Brussels: Her facial expressions are really skeptical out on the street that night (before the make out session against the tree).  She would know of course that the entire Night Walk on Eve of Josh's 1:1 is "PRODUCED" as Jason and Molly always put it -- a camera crew and producer agree with Nick he can go to front desk, get the floor key and room number (talk about PRODUCED!), film her at the door, follow them around the streets, and create  F1 type footage.  Like that absurd over-produced scene of Sean running through the streets of Europe bellowing for Emily ... it didn't make Emily return his feelings, but with a great smooch against the wall Sean feels Special, and Emily has given some footage to the producers that can be used to build a Sean fan base.  Many of her interactions with Nick were produced for romance, and designed to make him feel very special, like the inevitable winner.  I think he was genuinely in the dark about the seriousness of her relationship with Josh and the level to which he was claiming her as his future wife.

Separately, I wonder if they aren't testing the market this week to see if Nick can be a Lead.  I think they are worried about Chris as Lead ... probably having some trouble casting for girls who aren't freaked out by Iowa.  I have said it three or four times, but I will repeat.  I have to my embarrassment acquired a friggin' ph.D. in this show and the business-side of how it is cast and produced and promoted.  I smell money in the mix in Nick's behavior.  I just do.  And freely confess, intuition is only right 70% of the time.  But I have gotten a Paid Talent vibe ever since I heard he showed up in Mexico (WHO WOULD DO THAT?!!!), wrote the letter that quotes from his own In the Moments for heaven's sakes, was filmed with Bella with Bennett G in town in Milwaukee, etc.  THey needed drama to justify a LIVE EVENT, so they worked with the plan they had.

And, to me (bias on the table, as ever), this whole Nick Subplot was concoted mid-season as a means to cope with a very strong and mostly steady First Couple ... Andi fell apart in Venice on camera freaking out that Josh might not return her feelings.  Something very real was going on there, that was very settled IMO by the time Andi sat in that park with Nick in Brussels.

Wow, you are good.      Very thought out and I agree, andi was done, game over when she thought Josh would leave or not reciprocate her feelings.   Saw it in previews but never shown on air.

Rosepetal wrote:It is as simple as this Andi slept with a guy she might be getting engaged to because the one she really wanted hadn't said he loved her but was falling in love with her. The "I love you" from Josh didn't come until the fantasy date. Up to that time she was still skeptical because  Josh had already told her the next person he said "I.L.U" was the one he was going to marry and he hadn't told her that yet. If he didn't tell her IMO Josh might have been F-2. This whole season has been about Andi trusting Josh with her heart. She didn't get the reassurance until the fantasy date with Josh. If he had told her sooner Nick might not have even got to F-2.

jlccaz wrote:You can have the Usual Level Of Sympathy that Nick was deceived by production in 1000 ways big and small over a period of weeks such that he could credibly be presented in footage as the FRONT-RUNNER -- him saying that all the time and acting that way causes the viewer to project WINNER vibe onto him, and colors how his time with the Lead is experienced when watching.  "Here is Andi's favorite" one thinks, as he says it, and the guys complain about it.  Creates doubt about whether to trust what you're seeing between Andi and Josh or others.

I think Nick thought he was front-runner because he was PRODUCED to believe that and Andi  was herself PRODUCED to deliver the requisite amount of footage to back that up ... including because he was someone to whom she had a genuine attachment and attraction That said, if you watch her, not him stammering around about "going to marry" and "crazy about", she isn't really returning 100% in many of the key scenes we saw.  When she says "I had to go through all the steps" and Chris Harrison says the same, that is echoing the constant refrain of what handlers and producers tell them throughout.  "You need to build many relationships with as many as you can, being real in each moment, and going with the flow/having fun with each, so that you don't get to the end and be humiliated that your favorite got cold feet and you flopped as the Bachelorette to whom no man would propose."  Wow. That's a heavy threat.  So the Lead, especially this one, is hugely motivated out of self-preservation to have more than one romance happening in tandem.  They have to air 2 hours of programming on the night of the finale, so she has no choice but to go through a bunch of scenes with #2 over the last days -- meeting of parents, some % of a LCD, etc.  There are a lot of heavy conversations with the lead fighting for the right to dump #2  before completely humiliating and pointless Neil Lane, get dressed for FRC, or FRC footage gets shot.  That deprives the producers of that Mesnick or Andy Baldwin footage, after dumping the #2 at the "altar" so to speak ... so you know they have to fight.

I look at it like this ... Andi's literal j-o-b for which she was paid whatever amount of moolah, and all the freebies and media spotlight, was to have at least 4 guys eager to introduce her to their families, 3 willing to spend the night, and 2 willing to propose.  That's a ton of pressure.  And you don't get there without help from producers.  They massively manipulate the cast, manipulate the lead, manipulate the footage, add soundtracks later to set various moods, and literally feed lines through leading questions during and after filming for ITMs.  

Anyway, back to where her head was at ... an Example of PRODUCTION over actual RELATIONSHIP, fairly late in the Game is Brussels: Her facial expressions are really skeptical out on the street that night (before the make out session against the tree).  She would know of course that the entire Night Walk on Eve of Josh's 1:1 is "PRODUCED" as Jason and Molly always put it -- a camera crew and producer agree with Nick he can go to front desk, get the floor key and room number (talk about PRODUCED!), film her at the door, follow them around the streets, and create  F1 type footage.  Like that absurd over-produced scene of Sean running through the streets of Europe bellowing for Emily ... it didn't make Emily return his feelings, but with a great smooch against the wall Sean feels Special, and Emily has given some footage to the producers that can be used to build a Sean fan base.  Many of her interactions with Nick were produced for romance, and designed to make him feel very special, like the inevitable winner.  I think he was genuinely in the dark about the seriousness of her relationship with Josh and the level to which he was claiming her as his future wife.

Separately, I wonder if they aren't testing the market this week to see if Nick can be a Lead.  I think they are worried about Chris as Lead ... probably having some trouble casting for girls who aren't freaked out by Iowa.  I have said it three or four times, but I will repeat.  I have to my embarrassment acquired a friggin' ph.D. in this show and the business-side of how it is cast and produced and promoted.  I smell money in the mix in Nick's behavior.  I just do.  And freely confess, intuition is only right 70% of the time.  But I have gotten a Paid Talent vibe ever since I heard he showed up in Mexico (WHO WOULD DO THAT?!!!), wrote the letter that quotes from his own In the Moments for heaven's sakes, was filmed with Bella with Bennett G in town in Milwaukee, etc.  THey needed drama to justify a LIVE EVENT, so they worked with the plan they had.

And, to me (bias on the table, as ever), this whole Nick Subplot was concoted mid-season as a means to cope with a very strong and mostly steady First Couple ... Andi fell apart in Venice on camera freaking out that Josh might not return her feelings.  Something very real was going on there, that was very settled IMO by the time Andi sat in that park with Nick in Brussels.

Rosepetal wrote:It is as simple as this Andi slept with a guy she might be getting engaged to because the one she really wanted hadn't said he loved her but was falling in love with her. The "I love you" from Josh didn't come until the fantasy date. Up to that time she was still skeptical because  Josh had already told her the next person he said "I.L.U" was the one he was going to marry and he hadn't told her that yet. If he didn't tell her IMO Josh might have been F-2. This whole season has been about Andi trusting Josh with her heart. She didn't get the reassurance until the fantasy date with Josh. If he had told her sooner Nick might not have even got to F-2.