Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #6

[Cecilia]

^^I think there is a great debate in the media, here, etc. about whether it is slut shaming.  IMO it's not, but I'm a pretty hardcore feminist.

The fact that Nick questions "why sleep with me" and his fans are angry at Andi for "sleeping" with him when "she has already picked Josh" insinuate/question Andi's integrity. Come on, let's not talk semantics here. It's basically calling her a slut

and yet the questioning is not slut shaming?  Hmmm...

I'm not angry that she slept with him.   I don't think Andi is a slut at all. I just see his point.

[Cari]

He's still talking about it?   

Why not?  People spent days here talking about it and then more days talking about the person he was following on twitter.  Guess he is no different than us except this obviously still affects him personally as opposed to us.  

We don't know why he posted the blog now - maybe Sean encouraged him or he asked Sean to post it earlier and Sean ran Arie's article first.  Who knows?  It is still a big story in national media at any rate.

I think it's a very valid topic--not because it's Nick or MeandI. Just because it is.
Sean--I give you kudos. (and I never come close to saying that!) It's something people of either sex should think about. It has nothing to do with shame. It has to do with communication on what I consider the deepest level. But see that's the thing--maybe to someone else or under other circumstances it has no more of a deep level than--a fist bump? Who knows. But it does generate a lot of thought and I think that is one of the reasons it was posted on Yawn's--errr Sean's blog. Kudos Sean.

Idol, I do not question Sean's reasons for allowing his space for Nick.

And as exactly what you said. Sean's well known stance on premarital sex and here comes Nick's emphasis on why and why not one should have sex in the FS. Both guys would like to have "meaning" on having sex. Albeit both use a different "thesaurus". Sean is sex on the marriage bed. Nick will have sex in the FS only when there should be a mutual understanding unexpressed on both parties.

And since Andi did not choose him, what is Nick then insinuating? After Nick painstakingly explained in the blog what sex in the FS is for him, isn't he implying that Andi just had meaningless sex with him?  So what then is people gonna think what Andi is?   

Here's the thing, in episode 7, Nick assumed what is Andi's feelings.

when Andi gives me the HTD rose, Nick said and I quote, "Andi's way of telling me that she loves me! ....She will pick me in the end"

Ergo, Nick in his perception at the FS (again!)   , that because Andi had sex with him is "Andi's way of telling me she loves me! That she picks me!" #Assumero  

[philphan]

I think our discussion is valid - not trying to shut it down. But Nick? A slip is a slip, but the fact that he's still going on about it shows me that his words were very much planned and no way are we going to forget about the FS anytime soon.   

Makes me respect how Clare handled the JPG situation even more. And then there's Nick.   

I think you are missing the point, I don't see this as Nick seeking out Time magazine or Sean's blog. I see these venues as thinking the topic is worth discussing and thought and seeing it has merit.  

I agree with you, Kasha. The "topic" has become discussion for many people who haven't even watched the show. Not necessarily is Andi or Nick right/wrong, but how do we view sex/intimacy/gender stereotypes in society?

[Catdwoman50]

Why not?  People spent days here talking about it and then more days talking about the person he was following on twitter.  Guess he is no different than us except this obviously still affects him personally as opposed to us.  

We don't know why he posted the blog now - maybe Sean encouraged him or he asked Sean to post it earlier and Sean ran Arie's article first.  Who knows?  It is still a big story in national media at any rate.

I think it's a very valid topic--not because it's Nick or MeandI. Just because it is.
Sean--I give you kudos. (and I never come close to saying that!) It's something people of either sex should think about. It has nothing to do with shame. It has to do with communication on what I consider the deepest level. But see that's the thing--maybe to someone else or under other circumstances it has no more of a deep level than--a fist bump? Who knows. But it does generate a lot of thought and I think that is one of the reasons it was posted on Yawn's--errr Sean's blog. Kudos Sean.

Idol, I do not question Sean's reasons for allowing his space for Nick.

And as exactly what you said. Sean's well known stance on premarital sex and here comes Nick's emphasis on why and why not one should have sex in the FS. Both guys would like to have "meaning" on having sex. Albeit both use a different "thesaurus". Sean is sex on the marriage bed. Nick will have sex in the FS only when there should be a mutual understanding unexpressed on both parties.

And since Andi did not choose him, what is Nick then insinuating? After Nick painstakingly explained in the blog what sex in the FS is for him, isn't he implying that Anid just had meaningless sex with him?  So what then is people gonna think what Andi is?   

Here's the thing, in episode 7, Nick assumed what is Andi's feelings.

That just when Andi gives me the HTD rose, Nick said and I quote, "Andi's way of telling me that she loves me! She will pick me in the end"

Ergo, Nick in his perception at the FS (again!)   , that because Andi had sex with him is "Andi's way of telling me she loves me! That she picks me!" #Assumero   

Hey Cari, just want to ask what you would think if Nick was the lead and Andi asked the same question? Would you be as upset for Andi doing so or feeling as if she is misled especially since she believes, that she told him the act was important to her?

[MVMom39forever]

^^I think there is a great debate in the media, here, etc. about whether it is slut shaming.  IMO it's not, but I'm a pretty hardcore feminist.

The fact that Nick questions "why sleep with me" and his fans are angry at Andi for "sleeping" with him when "she has already picked Josh" insinuate/question Andi's integrity. Come on, let's not talk semantics here. It's basically calling her a slut

and yet the questioning is not slut shaming?  Hmmm...

Gosh, I beg to differ. I spend time on the Nick fan thread. I don't agree with all of his words and actions, but I admire that he's a guy who makes mistakes, admits to them and tries to learn from them. Andi helped us see that he was smart, witty, sexy, sweet and sensitive. By following him on SM, I see that he's got a great family, loads of friends, is a community volunteer and wears his Henley's well. So yeah, call me a fan.

I am also a card carrying member of the Dan Savage podcast, Savage Lovecast, and while Dan is 100% ANTI SLUT SHAMING, he stresses the need for COMMUNICATION in any relationship with two sexually consenting adults. Whatever happened in the FD was a miscommunication between two parties that left Nick broken hearted & confused and left Andi seemingly annoyed that Nick wasn't understanding that he was just a quick layover on HER journey to Josh.

If the guy who whispered to her "I love you so much. You're so beautiful." before she pulled him into her suite was just a drunken one night stand, it would have been a good idea for her to COMMUNICATE that to him at some point in the night or following morning.

[Ash2214]

What do I call her? A person who is very sexual and enjoys sex. That is all I would think...I wouldn't call her anything. But that is me.
I can't speak for anyone else. To me it was a miscommunication that was very hurtful compounded by the fact they had sex. I try not to waste my time with names/labels.
The whole idea of and wordage of sl*t shaming---that sickens me as much as when someone uses the c word.

It sickens me too and because of what Nick did, what happened? A fox anchor called her a sl*t on national television. Then you can add the whole social media thing too. I would call that "sl*t shaming."

Nick is responsible for Nick. He is not responsible for anyone else. Not imho. We live in a country where free speech is a right. I think it's a worthy topic of discussion, but like anything else it can be handled in a respectful manner. If others choose not to be respectful or put their own spin on it--that does not fall back on Nick, IMO.

Nick chose to call her out on national television. Andi and Nick chose to have sex in private, Nick took it public. While he has the right to do what he wants, everything that Andi disgustingly got once Nick dropped the bomb, was in correlation to what Nick did. Simple as that in my opinion. He's not stupid. He knew there would be side effects because of his words.

[luvlady345]

Yeah Cari every since we have been introduce to Nick his perception of everything from Josh temper and Josh being a doormat to Andi and that Andi changed her mind at the last moment has been touted as the holy grail all season. Now this .

[Cecilia]

Nick has never called her a slut and I don't think he thinks she is one. I don't think she is a slut. I despise the word slut and wouldn't use it to describe any woman. IMO it's a misogynistic term. And Nick or I or other Nick fans aren't the one using it all over this board!

[Ash2214]

Nick has never called her a slut and I don't think he thinks she is one.  I don't think she is a slut.  I despise the word slut and wouldn't use it to describe any woman.  IMO it's a misogynistic term.  And Nick or I or other Nick fans aren't the one using it all over this board!

By Nick doing what he did, he opened up the doors for everyone else to call Andi one, which many people did. Andi and Nick had sex in private and Nick took it public and by doing so, he allowed Andi to be shamed. Simple as that in my opinion.

[philphan]

^^I think there is a great debate in the media, here, etc. about whether it is slut shaming.  IMO it's not, but I'm a pretty hardcore feminist.

The fact that Nick questions "why sleep with me" and his fans are angry at Andi for "sleeping" with him when "she has already picked Josh" insinuate/question Andi's integrity. Come on, let's not talk semantics here. It's basically calling her a slut

and yet the questioning is not slut shaming?  Hmmm...

Gosh, I beg to differ. I spend time on the Nick fan thread. I don't agree with all of his words and actions, but I admire that he's a guy who makes mistakes, admits to them and tries to learn from them. Andi helped us see that he was smart, witty, sexy, sweet and sensitive. By following him on SM, I see that he's got a great family, loads of friends, is a community volunteer and wears his Henley's well. So yeah, call me a fan.

I am also a card carrying member of the Dan Savage podcast, Savage Lovecast, and while Dan is 100% ANTI SLUT SHAMING, he stresses the need for COMMUNICATION in any relationship with two sexually consenting adults. Whatever happened in the FD was a miscommunication between two parties that left Nick broken hearted & confused and left Andi seemingly annoyed that Nick wasn't understanding that he was just a quick layover on HER journey to Josh.  

If the guy who whispered to her "I love you so much. You're so beautiful." before she pulled him into her suite was just a drunken one night stand, it would have been a good idea for her to COMMUNICATE that to him at some point in the night or following morning.      

You hit the nail on the head!!   

[Kashathediva]

Why not?  People spent days here talking about it and then more days talking about the person he was following on twitter.  Guess he is no different than us except this obviously still affects him personally as opposed to us.  

We don't know why he posted the blog now - maybe Sean encouraged him or he asked Sean to post it earlier and Sean ran Arie's article first.  Who knows?  It is still a big story in national media at any rate.

I think it's a very valid topic--not because it's Nick or MeandI. Just because it is.
Sean--I give you kudos. (and I never come close to saying that!) It's something people of either sex should think about. It has nothing to do with shame. It has to do with communication on what I consider the deepest level. But see that's the thing--maybe to someone else or under other circumstances it has no more of a deep level than--a fist bump? Who knows. But it does generate a lot of thought and I think that is one of the reasons it was posted on Yawn's--errr Sean's blog. Kudos Sean.

Idol, I do not question Sean's reasons for allowing his space for Nick.

And as exactly what you said. Sean's well known stance on premarital sex and here comes Nick's emphasis on why and why not one should have sex in the FS. Both guys would like to have "meaning" on having sex. Albeit both use a different "thesaurus". Sean is sex on the marriage bed. Nick will have sex in the FS only when there should be a mutual understanding unexpressed on both parties.

And since Andi did not choose him, what is Nick then insinuating? After Nick painstakingly explained in the blog what sex in the FS is for him, isn't he implying that Andi just had meaningless sex with him?  So what then is people gonna think what Andi is?   

Here's the thing, in episode 7, Nick assumed what is Andi's feelings.

when Andi gives me the HTD rose, Nick said and I quote, "Andi's way of telling me that she loves me! ....She will pick me in the end"

Ergo, Nick in his perception at the FS (again!)   , that because Andi had sex with him is "Andi's way of telling me she loves me! That she picks me!" #Assumero  

And herein lies the rub.
There is no reason to insinuate anything or assume anything.
It was simply miscommunication. One person read much more into what took place than the other. Think of two people coming from opposite directions, instead of intersecting in the middle--they simply bypass each other. They were not on the same path.
It is not on Nick's shoulders what others think. That is on others shoulders.
I do not attach emotional heat in either direction(Nick or MeandI) as to me it was miscommunication on the part of each. Nick knows what he meant. MeandI knows what she meant. I don't think either will truly understand where the other is coming from and at this point, it's moot.

[Cari]

I think it's a very valid topic--not because it's Nick or MeandI. Just because it is.
Sean--I give you kudos. (and I never come close to saying that!) It's something people of either sex should think about. It has nothing to do with shame. It has to do with communication on what I consider the deepest level. But see that's the thing--maybe to someone else or under other circumstances it has no more of a deep level than--a fist bump? Who knows. But it does generate a lot of thought and I think that is one of the reasons it was posted on Yawn's--errr Sean's blog. Kudos Sean.

Idol, I do not question Sean's reasons for allowing his space for Nick.

And as exactly what you said. Sean's well known stance on premarital sex and here comes Nick's emphasis on why and why not one should have sex in the FS. Both guys would like to have "meaning" on having sex. Albeit both use a different "thesaurus". Sean is sex on the marriage bed. Nick will have sex in the FS only when there should be a mutual understanding unexpressed on both parties.

And since Andi did not choose him, what is Nick then insinuating? After Nick painstakingly explained in the blog what sex in the FS is for him, isn't he implying that Anid just had meaningless sex with him?  So what then is people gonna think what Andi is?   

Here's the thing, in episode 7, Nick assumed what is Andi's feelings.

That just when Andi gives me the HTD rose, Nick said and I quote, "Andi's way of telling me that she loves me! She will pick me in the end"

Ergo, Nick in his perception at the FS (again!)   , that because Andi had sex with him is "Andi's way of telling me she loves me! That she picks me!" #Assumero   

Hey Cari, just want to ask what you would think if Nick was the lead and Andi asked the same question?  Would you be as upset for Andi doing so or feeling as if she is misled especially since she believes, that she told him the act was important to her?  

Yes, girlfriend! I would be furious with Andi or anybody even if it's my Beloved Arie (accidentally or not) had a slip up. That is slut-shaming whether it was deliberate or not. That was THE Effect.

Kudos to those who dint feel it was SlutShaming. I just placed my shoes on Andi and Andi is a stranger and yet I got concerned for her for what her father would think, her ultra-feminist cousin would think and ultimately what Josh would think. That was THE Effect.

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