Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - Men Tell All - July 21/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* - Discussion 2

Make love not war who said that ?

He never specifically said Andi was passive aggressive. He said "ummm, she’s incredibly stubborn, and if someone is passive aggressive and bottles it up, it probably…you know what I’m sayin?” We don't know the context so we don't know who he's referring to.
Again, he said all these things 2 days after he got dumped. I will cut him some slack. IF he still says all these things 2 months after, then I will have a problem with him even though I like him a lot.
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, I agree and have no problems with it. As fans, we will defend our favorites. I don't want to and I don't think I can anyone's opinions.

Kashathediva wrote:I shudder to think how I would act and speak in a moment that I was unguarded and had just experienced living in an emotional bubble for several weeks.
I think there would be lots of Melissa McCarthy moments for sure.

My point exactly! Given the context, I'd have said a lot worse. He didn't call Josh an a$$xxle, a douchebag or any other terms of endearment that could have been used. On Andi's side, he didn't call her a b!tch or the c-word.

It's clear to me when Nick says "...I don’t know what else to say other than, like, it seemed like she really changed her mind, like, at the last moment.” that he really was blindsided and had no idea what was coming. It would be incredibly painful to be dumped by a woman you expected to propose a couple of hours later.

chloep wrote:

He didn't have nice things to say about Andi either - the girl he was claiming to love just days before.

Okay, I am starting to get annoyed by the fact that whenever the vid is discussed, ****Edited*** up, but for some reason never elaborates...
Was it when he said that she was really close to her family, or how he LOVED her family? or how he was completely caught of guard bc he wanted to spend his life with her... Calling her stubborn? Really, I say Andi would be the first one to admit that she is.....
He did NOT dish her AT ALL. I know its easier for some people to say that and make him out to be the villain, who lead her on and Joshie the prince in shining armor, but the fact that he would NOT bash her, despite just having had his heartbroken by her, speaks volumes.... Bashing the person when your ego is hurt(saying "eh, she wasn't worth it anyway.") would be the easiest thing to do. It's the perfect coping mechanism of heartbreak. Yet he chose not to go down that route. He has his opinion of Josh and he is perfectly entitled to it. (Honestly, he spent more time with Josh then Andi did). However, that has nothing to do with Andi personally.

Completely agree,  chloep and appreciate your post.  I'm actually surprised that Nick was so complimentary toward the Dorfmans and didn't he bash Pookie at all.  He also didn't play it off like what he was feeling was just a "showmance" in order to save face with the person he was talking with in the video.  He manned up and owned his feelings.  How refreshing.

To Nick's other points:  MeAndi does indeed seem stubborn.  Based on what we've seen, she was scared sh**less of making the same mistake with her usual type.  Nick actually said if a person has passive-aggressive tendencies not that MeAndi was passive-aggressive.  Based on what we've been shown so far, I don't find his description of Josh to be too far off base.  Not flattering perhaps, but calling this an attack on Joshie's character is a bit of a stretch.

FLChica wrote:

chloep wrote:

He didn't have nice things to say about Andi either - the girl he was claiming to love just days before.

Okay, I am starting to get annoyed by the fact that whenever the vid is discussed, ***Edited****, but for some reason never elaborates...
Was it when he said that she was really close to her family, or how he LOVED her family? or how he was completely caught of guard bc he wanted to spend his life with her... Calling her stubborn? Really, I say Andi would be the first one to admit that she is.....
He did NOT dish her AT ALL. I know its easier for some people to say that and make him out to be the villain, who lead her on and Joshie the prince in shining armor, but the fact that he would NOT bash her, despite just having had his heartbroken by her, speaks volumes.... Bashing the person when your ego is hurt(saying "eh, she wasn't worth it anyway.") would be the easiest thing to do. It's the perfect coping mechanism of heartbreak. Yet he chose not to go down that route. He has his opinion of Josh and he is perfectly entitled to it. (Honestly, he spent more time with Josh then Andi did). However, that has nothing to do with Andi personally.

Completely agree,  chloep and appreciate your post.  I'm actually surprised that Nick was so complimentary toward the Dorfmans and didn't he bash Pookie at all.  He also didn't play it off like what he was feeling was just a "showmance" in order to save face with the person he was talking with in the video.  He manned up and owned his feelings.  How refreshing.

To Nick's other points:  MeAndi does indeed seem stubborn.  Based on what we've seen, she was scared sh**less of making the same mistake with her usual type.  Nick actually said if a person has passive-aggressive tendencies not that MeAndi was passive-aggressive.  Based on what we've been shown so far, I don't find his description of Josh to be too far off base.  Not flattering perhaps, but calling this an attack on Joshie's character is a bit of a stretch.

Joshie???  We can't say if the description of Josh is far off base (or what is shown of Nick on tv is his complete self either) because it is an edited tv show.

FLChica wrote:

chloep wrote:

He didn't have nice things to say about Andi either - the girl he was claiming to love just days before.

Okay, I am starting to get annoyed by the fact that whenever the vid is discussed, ***Edited***, but for some reason never elaborates...
Was it when he said that she was really close to her family, or how he LOVED her family? or how he was completely caught of guard bc he wanted to spend his life with her... Calling her stubborn? Really, I say Andi would be the first one to admit that she is.....
He did NOT dish her AT ALL. I know its easier for some people to say that and make him out to be the villain, who lead her on and Joshie the prince in shining armor, but the fact that he would NOT bash her, despite just having had his heartbroken by her, speaks volumes.... Bashing the person when your ego is hurt(saying "eh, she wasn't worth it anyway.") would be the easiest thing to do. It's the perfect coping mechanism of heartbreak. Yet he chose not to go down that route. He has his opinion of Josh and he is perfectly entitled to it. (Honestly, he spent more time with Josh then Andi did). However, that has nothing to do with Andi personally.

Completely agree,  chloep and appreciate your post.  I'm actually surprised that Nick was so complimentary toward the Dorfmans and didn't he bash Pookie at all.  He also didn't play it off like what he was feeling was just a "showmance" in order to save face with the person he was talking with in the video.  He manned up and owned his feelings.  How refreshing.

To Nick's other points:  MeAndi does indeed seem stubborn.  Based on what we've seen, she was scared sh**less of making the same mistake with her usual type.  Nick actually said if a person has passive-aggressive tendencies not that MeAndi was passive-aggressive.  Based on what we've been shown so far, I don't find his description of Josh to be too far off base.  Not flattering perhaps, but calling this an attack on Joshie's character is a bit of a stretch.

Nick said all Josh does is "eat, sh!t and sleep." That essentially insults his intelligence and basically calls him lazy. He said he had a bad temper. That could mean a few things. Is he saying Josh gets easily angered? Is he trying to say he would possibly physically harm Andi because he has such a bad temper? We don't know, but saying someone has a bad temper could mean a few things and considering we and no one else for that matter really knows what Nick truly meant, it certainly doesn't do any favors for Josh. Nick also essentially stated that Andi would walk all over Josh and that she would essentially run their relationship. In my opinion, that's sort of demeaning for Josh as a man.

Like others including myself have stated numerous times, Nick was hurt. I understand why he made that phone call and I understand why he said the things he did. It's a tough position and you bet I'd call a loved one immediately and let it all out. It sucks that happened to him, however, I don't think it's a stretch to say Nick attacked Josh's character a bit. Your character is who you are as a person. Nick brought up many character traits of Josh. Thankfully, I don't think many people fault Nick for it. I certainly don't.

chloep wrote:

He didn't have nice things to say about Andi either - the girl he was claiming to love just days before.

Okay, I am starting to get annoyed by the fact that whenever the vid is discussed, a***Edited***, but for some reason never elaborates...
Was it when he said that she was really close to her family, or how he LOVED her family? or how he was completely caught of guard bc he wanted to spend his life with her... Calling her stubborn? Really, I say Andi would be the first one to admit that she is.....
He did NOT dish her AT ALL. I know its easier for some people to say that and make him out to be the villain, who lead her on and Joshie the prince in shining armor, but the fact that he would NOT bash her, despite just having had his heartbroken by her, speaks volumes.... Bashing the person when your ego is hurt(saying "eh, she wasn't worth it anyway.") would be the easiest thing to do. It's the perfect coping mechanism of heartbreak. Yet he chose not to go down that route. He has his opinion of Josh and he is perfectly entitled to it. (Honestly, he spent more time with Josh then Andi did). However, that has nothing to do with Andi personally.

Eeeek! I didn't say he trashed her, but he did call her incredibly stubborn and passive aggressive. It's got a negative connotation to me. Well, at least I don't take it as a compliment.

Also, I don't think nick is a villain and I certainly think he's got great qualities, my opinion was more so to explain why I thought the ATFR would be awkward.

Ash2214 wrote:

chloep wrote:

He didn't have nice things to say about Andi either - the girl he was claiming to love just days before.

Okay, I am starting to get annoyed by the fact that whenever the vid is discussed, ***edited*** but for some reason never elaborates...
Was it when he said that she was really close to her family, or how he LOVED her family? or how he was completely caught of guard bc he wanted to spend his life with her... Calling her stubborn? Really, I say Andi would be the first one to admit that she is.....
He did NOT dish her AT ALL. I know its easier for some people to say that and make him out to be the villain, who lead her on and Joshie the prince in shining armor, but the fact that he would NOT bash her, despite just having had his heartbroken by her, speaks volumes.... Bashing the person when your ego is hurt(saying "eh, she wasn't worth it anyway.") would be the easiest thing to do. It's the perfect coping mechanism of heartbreak. Yet he chose not to go down that route. He has his opinion of Josh and he is perfectly entitled to it. (Honestly, he spent more time with Josh then Andi did). However, that has nothing to do with Andi personally.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and that is all BachFanNY posted. I'm more than willing to state that I didn't have a single issue with what he said about Andi, but other people think the opposite. For some people, stating she was stubborn and passive aggressive along with saying she was "scared sh!tless" to pick him and that she just stuck to what she was used to was a bit of an insult. They're entitled to that opinion. I really don't care what he said about her. I didn't think it was that bad. What he said about Josh was rude and ignorant, but again, I don't care. I will state though saying all a guy does is "eat, sleep and sh!t" and that he has a bad temper and will essentially let Andi walk all over him is definitely an "attack" on Josh's character, but again, everyone has the right to freely state how they feel.

Yup, JMO 

emeraldluvsbama wrote:

FLChica wrote:

chloep wrote:


Okay, I am starting to get annoyed by the fact that whenever the vid is discussed, ***Edited***, but for some reason never elaborates...
Was it when he said that she was really close to her family, or how he LOVED her family? or how he was completely caught of guard bc he wanted to spend his life with her... Calling her stubborn? Really, I say Andi would be the first one to admit that she is.....
He did NOT dish her AT ALL. I know its easier for some people to say that and make him out to be the villain, who lead her on and Joshie the prince in shining armor, but the fact that he would NOT bash her, despite just having had his heartbroken by her, speaks volumes.... Bashing the person when your ego is hurt(saying "eh, she wasn't worth it anyway.") would be the easiest thing to do. It's the perfect coping mechanism of heartbreak. Yet he chose not to go down that route. He has his opinion of Josh and he is perfectly entitled to it. (Honestly, he spent more time with Josh then Andi did). However, that has nothing to do with Andi personally.

Completely agree,  chloep and appreciate your post.  I'm actually surprised that Nick was so complimentary toward the Dorfmans and didn't he bash Pookie at all.  He also didn't play it off like what he was feeling was just a "showmance" in order to save face with the person he was talking with in the video.  He manned up and owned his feelings.  How refreshing.

To Nick's other points:  MeAndi does indeed seem stubborn.  Based on what we've seen, she was scared sh**less of making the same mistake with her usual type.  Nick actually said if a person has passive-aggressive tendencies not that MeAndi was passive-aggressive.  Based on what we've been shown so far, I don't find his description of Josh to be too far off base.  Not flattering perhaps, but calling this an attack on Joshie's character is a bit of a stretch.

Joshie???  We can't say if the description of Josh is far off base (or what is shown of Nick on tv is his complete self either) because it is an edited tv show.  

Oops, sorry.  He was actually referred to as "Joshie the prince in shining armor".  

With all due respect, I'm well aware that this is an edited tv show and was careful to say "based on what we've seen so far".  I'm also most certainly able to offer an opinion as to whether Nick's description of Josh is within the realm of believability.

emeraldluvsbama wrote:

FLChica wrote:

chloep wrote:


Okay, I am starting to get annoyed by the fact that whenever the vid is discussed, ***Edited***, but for some reason never elaborates...
Was it when he said that she was really close to her family, or how he LOVED her family? or how he was completely caught of guard bc he wanted to spend his life with her... Calling her stubborn? Really, I say Andi would be the first one to admit that she is.....
He did NOT dish her AT ALL. I know its easier for some people to say that and make him out to be the villain, who lead her on and Joshie the prince in shining armor, but the fact that he would NOT bash her, despite just having had his heartbroken by her, speaks volumes.... Bashing the person when your ego is hurt(saying "eh, she wasn't worth it anyway.") would be the easiest thing to do. It's the perfect coping mechanism of heartbreak. Yet he chose not to go down that route. He has his opinion of Josh and he is perfectly entitled to it. (Honestly, he spent more time with Josh then Andi did). However, that has nothing to do with Andi personally.

Completely agree,  chloep and appreciate your post.  I'm actually surprised that Nick was so complimentary toward the Dorfmans and didn't he bash Pookie at all.  He also didn't play it off like what he was feeling was just a "showmance" in order to save face with the person he was talking with in the video.  He manned up and owned his feelings.  How refreshing.

To Nick's other points:  MeAndi does indeed seem stubborn.  Based on what we've seen, she was scared sh**less of making the same mistake with her usual type.  Nick actually said if a person has passive-aggressive tendencies not that MeAndi was passive-aggressive.  Based on what we've been shown so far, I don't find his description of Josh to be too far off base.  Not flattering perhaps, but calling this an attack on Joshie's character is a bit of a stretch.

Joshie???  We can't say if the description of Josh is far off base (or what is shown of Nick on tv is his complete self either) because it is an edited tv show.  

Thank you!!!! It is very edited !! andi had to take someone toF4 F3 F2 that is how it works ! She liked the other
3 but fell in love with Josh !! It is hard on all who do the show but with out the final 4 there is no show no drama no suspense !
I am sure she liked many of the guys a lot but all know what they sign up for!! It is an emotional risk for everyone & depending on the edit , it can be a huge risk as to how you come across after filming !!
But it's a risk that can pay off to true love ( Trista, Jason, Molly, Sean, Catherine, JP & Ashley Des & Chris & many of us believe Andi & Josh) !!
I say kudos to the above for building on & fighting for what started on a chance of a lifetime reality TV with not the highest success rate!!

FLChica wrote:

chloep wrote:

He didn't have nice things to say about Andi either - the girl he was claiming to love just days before.

Okay, I am starting to get annoyed by the fact that whenever the vid is discussed, a***Edited****, but for some reason never elaborates...
Was it when he said that she was really close to her family, or how he LOVED her family? or how he was completely caught of guard bc he wanted to spend his life with her... Calling her stubborn? Really, I say Andi would be the first one to admit that she is.....
He did NOT dish her AT ALL. I know its easier for some people to say that and make him out to be the villain, who lead her on and Joshie the prince in shining armor, but the fact that he would NOT bash her, despite just having had his heartbroken by her, speaks volumes.... Bashing the person when your ego is hurt(saying "eh, she wasn't worth it anyway.") would be the easiest thing to do. It's the perfect coping mechanism of heartbreak. Yet he chose not to go down that route. He has his opinion of Josh and he is perfectly entitled to it. (Honestly, he spent more time with Josh then Andi did). However, that has nothing to do with Andi personally.

Completely agree,  chloep and appreciate your post.  I'm actually surprised that Nick was so complimentary toward the Dorfmans and didn't he bash Pookie at all.  He also didn't play it off like what he was feeling was just a "showmance" in order to save face with the person he was talking with in the video.  He manned up and owned his feelings.  How refreshing.

To Nick's other points:  MeAndi does indeed seem stubborn.  Based on what we've seen, she was scared sh**less of making the same mistake with her usual type.  Nick actually said if a person has passive-aggressive tendencies not that MeAndi was passive-aggressive.  Based on what we've been shown so far, I don't find his description of Josh to be too far off base.  Not flattering perhaps, but calling this an attack on Joshie's character is a bit of a stretch.

Totally agree.  Nick was mildly negative about them.  Who wouldn't be?  That is probably the best anyone could expect of someone in that situation and it actually really impresses me that he didn't fly off the handle or exaggerate things.  If it was me it would have been way worse I'm sure and I would have felt ashamed and embarrassed later when I was no longer in the heat of the moment of being hurt, shocked and rejected (if anyone beyond a trusted friend/family member had heard me).   IMO, Nick has nothing to feel sorry about in the things he said.  And to be honest, I would hate to hear what Andi would have said in the same shoes, if talking to, say someone like her friend Kelly.  Yikes.

USAGold wrote:Thank you!!!! It is very edited !! andi had to take someone toF4 F3 F2 that is how it works ! She liked the other
3 but fell in love with Josh !! It is hard on all who do the show but with out the final 4 there is no show no drama no suspense !
I am sure she liked many of the guys a lot but all know what they sign up for!! It is an emotional risk for everyone & depending on the edit , it can be a huge risk as to how you come across after filming !!
But it's a risk that can pay off to true love ( Trista, Jason, Molly, Sean, Catherine, JP & Ashley Des & Chris & many of us believe Andi & Josh) !!
I say kudos to the above for building on & fighting for what started on a chance of a lifetime reality TV with not the highest success rate!!

IMO, this is why it's so hard to be TeamNick. 1) it ain't over until it's over - I agree that it is probably Josh as F1 but to state it as a foregone fact kinda steps over the line. 2) why is it so hard to believe that Andi loved two very different men but made a choice as opposed to Andi "liking" F2?  Is diminishing Andi's feelings for the other guys the only way to cheer Josh on? :hidingchair