Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - Men Tell All - July 21/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* - Discussion 2

So not many people think Josh's Twitter response about his lies was a joke? His name wasn't even part of the test. I thought immediately that he was kidding.

Maggenzm wrote:

soccermom333 wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:Per Rosepetal:
Maybe in the moment Josh was indecisive wheteher to say yes to Josh vs. Joshua and it registered his indecisiveness as a lie. Just a thought.

I think 100% Josh was told what the lies were.  Either by andi, after the MTA, or a producer.  Do you really think andi just went back stage and did not find out what the lies were?  No way, she knew.  He has no reason to lie on twitter when he announced to everyone what they were.  TPTB made such a big deal about it for drama.  

See, Josh is as classy as they come, a great guy indeed. Gorgeous outside and beautiful inside so that 90% of the viewers really love him. He is one of a kind. So, some people are doing everything to find something wrong with him. I am sure he is not perfect, but he is a great guy and has really livened up our TV for the past 2 months. It has been a pleasure watching Josh and Andi, what a treat! Is it July 28th yet?

I think you will find many posters that are TeamNick are not AntiJosh.  I liked Josh's vulnerability at the beginning of the season, his hand over her face was one of the cutest things ever!  I just feel like I didn't find out much about Josh past that, he went from vulnerable to guarded to now all in and saying all the right things.  Wish either they would've shown more or he had opened up more.  I will say I enjoyed his HTD and found out how giving he was to his loved ones.  I think several of us NickChicks just like Andi better when she's w Nick.

bleuberry wrote:So not many people think Josh's Twitter response about his lies was a joke? His name wasn't even part of the test. I thought immediately that he was kidding.

ITA, he is goofy and like to laugh at himself, sometimes we take things too seriously. We need to relax and just enjoy the show!

Maggenzm wrote:See, Josh is as classy as they come, a great guy indeed. Gorgeous outside and beautiful inside so that 90% of the viewers really love him. He is one of a kind. So, some people are doing everything to find something wrong with him. I am sure he is not perfect, but he is a great guy and has really livened up our TV for the past 2 months. It has been a pleasure watching Josh and Andi, what a treat! Is it July 28th yet?

90% might be a little high. I don't have anything negative to say about Josh, but he's not my cup of tea.

While I do believe that JJ dug a hole for himself with a pattern of tattletale/sour grapes behavior throughout the season, I was surprised by the level of....what would be the word?....hostility?...curtness?....of several of the men towards JJ.  It may be a combination of how JJ acted on the show and how he has behaved post-show (including SM) that has given some of the guys pause.  I don't read SM (only what is posted here) but there have been comments here saying that JJ has been a bit much on SM lately.  

I think that JJ is quite different than most of the guys in group, and perhaps as suggested by his own comments, he is different than most guys in general.  He seems intelligent and creative, but lacking in some social skills and maybe even some self confidence (in the romance department and on this show).  I don't think he was adept at the group dynamics required of this show.  I think he felt intimidated by the macho men and in his own way tried to ingratiate himself with guys by telling them little "secrets" that he knew.  Andrew getting a phone number from the waitress and the alleged whispered "slur".

I think Andrew was an unpopular guy in the house.  He was conceited, IMO or at least he was edited that way.  His sincerity of being there for Andi was questioned by some.  I think it is because of this bias that many, including JJ, took the alleged comment, reflected upon it, and interpreted it as being true and derogatory. I think it was only after JJ had formulated a negative opinion of Andrew's character, that he moved forward and told Marquel what he heard.  I think this is why it took JJ so long to tell Marquel (as well as an increased comfort level and friendship with Marquel at that point).  So, when the people criticize the timing of JJ coming forward with this info, I don't think they are taking these factors into account.

       My take of the alleged whispered "slur" may be different than most here.  With the risk of a bad pun, I don't think it is such a black and white issue.  I do believe that TPTB have audio that could either confirm or disprove the allegation by JJ.  My gut tells me that if they had the "words" on tape, for shock value, they would have played them for the audience at MTA.  However, perhaps they were taking pity on Andrew and didn't want him to receive more backlash for one very debatable (IMO) comment than he already has.  

I do believe that "words" have different meanings to different people.  And, to me, I see a big difference between Andrew allegedly saying "2 blackies" versus "2 black guys".  "Blackies" is derogatory.  "Black guys" (IMO) is not necessarily derogatory.  It all depends upon the intention behind the statement.  And we will NEVER know the true intention.  It may have been a put down comment or it may not have been. And since "Blackies" and "Black guys" whispered may not be discernable on a tape, I think that the evidence would end up being inconclusive.

TO ME, IF the comment was said without malice, and I do believe that this is very possible, I personally don't see it as a racist comment. Now, Marquel as a black man may have a completely different perspective than I do as a white female. BUT, I would argue that it is not simply the words used.  It all really has to do with the intention  behind those words.  Marquel used the black and white cookie, for example, to point out the differences in his and Andi's skin colors.  Was that racist?  No.  He was just pointing out the obvious.  In the scene when M asked A what is her favorite color, A answered black, and M smiled and said "duly noted".  Wasn't that a subtle way of pointing out M's skin color?  But it wasn't racist.  At MTA, M resurrected the black and white cookies, again, a coy playful nod to the fact that he was a black man courting a white woman.  Was there anything racist there? Absolutely not.  My point is that the simple comment of "She chose the 2 black guys" MAY have been Andrew's way of pointing out the obvious.  I got the impression that Andrew didn't mingle freely with the other guys on the first night.  He and Patrick struck up a conversation and bonded through there commonalities.  I'm sure that Andrew did not (nor did any of the other 25 guys there on night one) know all 25 guys' names.  

We had a thread right here on this board saying that Marquel should be the first black bachelor.  Was that racist?  I don't know.  This is a show with a highly skewed demographic, so if you want to talk about diversifying this show then you need to talk in demographics. Black=demographics. Is it categorizing?  Yes.  But is it necessarily racist?  Absolutely not.  

I think it is good to discuss these topics.  I think that when a group of people can calmly discuss a difficult topic that it brings together a variety of views and all eyes are opened up a bit more.  I still don't believe that any one of us, regardless of our race, will come to the exact same conclusions on issues that involve such personal experiences and interpretations.  I do think that Marquel did an awesome job in handling himself.  I think that Marquel is one of the best guys to appear on this show in decades.  I think Marquel would make an awesome bachelor because he is a total package man.  However, I worry that they wouldn't cast women good enough for him.  Marquel seems to have great standards that he personally abides by, and he'll find the right girl eventually.  Peace.

I was not able to see the entire show, but most of it.  Was there any mention of Eric the entire show?  I thought that was really odd that I did not see any mention of him at all.  Also I thought it would be appropriate for the guys to speak about their friendship with Eric.  I was disappointed that was not a portion of the show.

Maggenzm wrote:

soccermom333 wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:Per Rosepetal:
Maybe in the moment Josh was indecisive wheteher to say yes to Josh vs. Joshua and it registered his indecisiveness as a lie. Just a thought.

I think 100% Josh was told what the lies were.  Either by andi, after the MTA, or a producer.  Do you really think andi just went back stage and did not find out what the lies were?  No way, she knew.  He has no reason to lie on twitter when he announced to everyone what they were.  TPTB made such a big deal about it for drama.  

See, Josh is as classy as they come, a great guy indeed. Gorgeous outside and beautiful inside so that 90% of the viewers really love him. He is one of a kind. So, some people are doing everything to find something wrong with him. I am sure he is not perfect, but he is a great guy and has really livened up our TV for the past 2 months. It has been a pleasure watching Josh and Andi, what a treat! Is it July 28th yet?

  Josh has been a real treat for many, including the casual viewer. I haven't been this interested in a season since SeanCat's.

Does anyone know who the three guys were who confronted Andrew about the waitress phone number who he called "Lowlifes"? We know JJ and Josh were 2 from scenes shown but who was the Third guy, did that ever come out?

Luvstruck wrote:Does anyone know who the three guys were who confronted Andrew about the waitress phone number who he called "Lowlifes"?  We know JJ and Josh were 2 from scenes shown but who was the Third guy, did that ever come out?

I am pretty sure he was referring to Nick as the third guy. Chris mentioned last night that JJ was going around and trying to get Josh and Nick involved. If you watch the clip in the episode Nick backs JJ up near the end of the argument as I believe Nick, JJ and Eric were the only guys that were actually out for dinner and saw him get a number.

Andrew said he didn't care what a nerd (Nick), geek (JJ), and an a$$hole (Josh) had to say or something to that effect. I am making assumptions as to who he was referring to in those three comments, I don't personally share these views   

MiaHawk wrote:Snipped........While I do believe that JJ dug a hole for himself with a pattern of tattletale/sour grapes behavior throughout the season, I was surprised by the level of....what would be the word?....hostility?...curtness?....of several of the men towards JJ.  It may be a combination of how JJ acted on the show and how he has behaved post-show (including SM) that has given some of the guys pause.  I don't read SM (only what is posted here) but there have been comments here saying that JJ has been a bit much on SM lately.  

Great post Mia. I enjoy reading your opinions.   

bleuberry wrote:So not many people think Josh's Twitter response about his lies was a joke? His name wasn't even part of the test. I thought immediately that he was kidding.

It must be a joke! It doesn't make sense.

Cecilia wrote:

bleuberry wrote:So not many people think Josh's Twitter response about his lies was a joke? His name wasn't even part of the test. I thought immediately that he was kidding.

It must be a joke!  It doesn't make sense.

"Is your name Josh" was the first question, and he was the first to be questioned.