Re: The Bachelorette 10 - *Final 1-F2* - Speculation * Sleuthing - Spoilers Thread #2

[Guest]

I, personally, do not think the edit, thus far, has made Andi look like a biotch.  She just has a no nonsense approach to this.  

Remember when Eric said that the only time he saw the "real Andi" was when they were making sandcastles and playing on the beach?  Well, he is/was an action-oriented guy, who probably went through his life living in the moment. Which is fine, but it is not everyone's approach.  Andi is accustomed to doing research and building a case based on fact for her job, and I think she is taking the same approach here.  

CH said in a pre-season interview, IIRC, that no lead has asked so many questions of their contestants.  Andi is there on the show to both live in the moments and interview potential husbands.  I think she is approaching it in a very cerebral way, which doesn't translate to hearts and rainbows on a tv screen.  

   

yes, in other words, very methodological and analytical in her approach. Nd and i were jokingly discussed about this sometime ago. we came to our conclusion that maybe she has a checkboard of each guy's quality list that she brings along with her everywhere.   

[notarose]

I, personally, do not think the edit, thus far, has made Andi look like a biotch.  She just has a no nonsense approach to this.  

Remember when Eric said that the only time he saw the "real Andi" was when they were making sandcastles and playing on the beach?  Well, he is/was an action-oriented guy, who probably went through his life living in the moment. Which is fine, but it is not everyone's approach.  Andi is accustomed to doing research and building a case based on fact for her job, and I think she is taking the same approach here.  

CH said in a pre-season interview, IIRC, that no lead has asked so many questions of their contestants.  Andi is there on the show to both live in the moments and interview potential husbands.  I think she is approaching it in a very cerebral way, which doesn't translate to hearts and rainbows on a tv screen.  

   

yes, in other words, very methodological and analytical in her approach. Nd and i were jokingly discussed about this sometime ago. we came to our conclusion that maybe she has a checkboard of each guy's quality list that she brings along with her everywhere.   

JJ and Nick are methodical and analytical without that coolness.  Eric was similar but with more intensity.
I agree about the mental check board - an oracle database. (I know you were joking).  I think it's a good thing if she is responding in a natural way.  It's important that each guy get as clear a picture of who she is as possible because they, ultimately, have to decide if they want to choose her as well.

[Sprite]

There are several reasons that could account for Andi's edit, which I don't think has been a very flattering edit:

1.  Drama sells, romance doesn't.
2.  Andi and DeAnna are twins from another mother.
3.  MF loves irony, and will take a strength and edit it to look like a flaw.
4.  Alcohol and lack of sleep  ...  they do this on purpose to get the drama, spontaneity in a formatted show.
5.  TPTB aren't sold on the final couple  ... they don't think there's a chance the couple will last long beyond the bubble.
6.  Andi and her F1 are broken up.

All of your points are spot on in terms of how they edit someone but, the bolded is what I said at the end of last season. They use this trick all the time, particularly if they feel someone is getting full of themselves. I just don't see Andi having much of a sense of humour and that is a big turn of for me.

I know many are justifying her edit as her just having an analytical personality, producer prodding and manipulation, tiredness etc. While I agree, all of these come into play, it is very early in the season...she hasn't even left the country yet...and she has already lost it a few times with apparently more to come. That is just a bit too much for my taste. I had the same feeling with Emily and boy was it hard swimming up stream with all her defenders. I'm just finding Andi very MeAndi...too over the top, too dramatic...for my personal taste. She is not a horrible Bette and I think she is giving the producers a show but, personally, I just find her personality off putting.

I also just watched the preview videos of next weeks dates. Lots of chemistry with Josh. No chemistry with Brian. The video with Nick reading her the poem...I can't quite describe what exactly I'm feeling. She clearly liked it (although I have to say I am sick of poems and letters and wish they would just stop! All of them!!!), but, I wasn't feeling him. The best way I can describe it is that he gave me a smarmy, icky, greasy feeling watching him read that letter. Like he was trying to hard to sell her himself to her.   

[notarose]

There are several reasons that could account for Andi's edit, which I don't think has been a very flattering edit:

1.  Drama sells, romance doesn't.
2.  Andi and DeAnna are twins from another mother.
3.  MF loves irony, and will take a strength and edit it to look like a flaw.
4.  Alcohol and lack of sleep  ...  they do this on purpose to get the drama, spontaneity in a formatted show.
5.  TPTB aren't sold on the final couple  ... they don't think there's a chance the couple will last long beyond the bubble.
6.  Andi and her F1 are broken up.

All of your points are spot on in terms of how they edit someone but, the bolded is what I said at the end of last season. They use this trick all the time, particularly if they feel someone is getting full of themselves. I just don't see Andi having much of a sense of humour and that is a big turn of for me.

I know many are justifying her edit as her just having an analytical personality, producer prodding and manipulation, tiredness etc. While I agree, all of these come into play, it is very early in the season...she hasn't even left the country yet...and she has already lost it a few times with apparently more to come. That is just a bit too much for my taste. I had the same feeling with Emily and boy was it hard swimming up stream with all her defenders. I'm just finding Andi very MeAndi...too over the top, too dramatic...for my personal taste. She is not a horrible Bette and I think she is giving the producers a show but, personally, I just find her personality off putting.

I agree with both of you to an extend but I frame it differently.
She needs to find the guy who sees very few of these traits as flaws. That's really what relationships are about after the honeymoon period; you get to where you only have butterflies on even days and on odd days it becomes more about how you lift each other up or deal with the large & the small.
I think by her showing what her outbursts are like, her snarkiness, her wanting others to share but sharing little of her own, her analytical nature, etc she has a better chance of determining who sees her for who she is and accepts that.

I do, however, think her age is a factor. Assertive analytical people can mellow with age. I think she will benefit from further life experiences.

[ironcat]

I think the manipulation starts on day one, and we have heard from several past leads that they keep you up till all hours doing interviews also from day one, not to mention going on dates, particularly in the early stages, with guys you have no interest in (JJ?) when you would probably much rather stay home and sleep.  So I don't necessarily think the stress only starts to build after the first few weeks or when the international travel kicks in.  In fact, it could even be that for some, the fun travel, and getting more accustomed to the pace and what is expected of you over time (not to mention getting rid of the MOT guys and not having to pretend interest), may translate into a bit LESS stress than in the beginning (although perhaps not for Andi as it seems she continues to have freakouts).

Do I think Andi, in her real life, has an easy going personality and is a people pleaser?  Absolutely not, but I also don't think she is a horrible person.  I didn't think Emily was either (still don't) although I don't really care all that much about her (and probably won't about Andi either once the season ends).

[MiaHawk]

There are several reasons that could account for Andi's edit, which I don't think has been a very flattering edit:

1.  Drama sells, romance doesn't.
2.  Andi and DeAnna are twins from another mother.
3.  MF loves irony, and will take a strength and edit it to look like a flaw.
4.  Alcohol and lack of sleep  ...  they do this on purpose to get the drama, spontaneity in a formatted show.
5.  TPTB aren't sold on the final couple  ... they don't think there's a chance the couple will last long beyond the bubble.
6.  Andi and her F1 are broken up.

All of your points are spot on in terms of how they edit someone but, the bolded is what I said at the end of last season. They use this trick all the time, particularly if they feel someone is getting full of themselves. I just don't see Andi having much of a sense of humour and that is a big turn of for me.

I know many are justifying her edit as her just having an analytical personality, producer prodding and manipulation, tiredness etc. While I agree, all of these come into play, it is very early in the season...she hasn't even left the country yet...and she has already lost it a few times with apparently more to come. That is just a bit too much for my taste. I had the same feeling with Emily and boy was it hard swimming up stream with all her defenders. I'm just finding Andi very MeAndi...too over the top, too dramatic...for my personal taste. She is not a horrible Bette and I think she is giving the producers a show but, personally, I just find her personality off putting.

I also just watched the preview videos of next weeks dates. Lots of chemistry with Josh. No chemistry with Brian. The video with Nick reading her the poem...I can't quite describe what exactly I'm feeling. She clearly liked it (although I have to say I am sick of poems and letters and wish they would just stop! All of them!!!), but, I wasn't feeling him. The best way I can describe it is that he gave me a smarmy, icky, greasy feeling watching him read that letter. Like he was trying to hard to sell her himself to her.    

I am very computer illiterate. There is a google image of Nick where he is smoking a pipe. It could appear in the dictionary next to smarmy, imo.

[Catdwoman50]

There are several reasons that could account for Andi's edit, which I don't think has been a very flattering edit:

1.  Drama sells, romance doesn't.
2.  Andi and DeAnna are twins from another mother.
3.  MF loves irony, and will take a strength and edit it to look like a flaw.
4.  Alcohol and lack of sleep  ...  they do this on purpose to get the drama, spontaneity in a formatted show.
5.  TPTB aren't sold on the final couple  ... they don't think there's a chance the couple will last long beyond the bubble.
6.  Andi and her F1 are broken up.

All of your points are spot on in terms of how they edit someone but, the bolded is what I said at the end of last season. They use this trick all the time, particularly if they feel someone is getting full of themselves. I just don't see Andi having much of a sense of humour and that is a big turn of for me.

I know many are justifying her edit as her just having an analytical personality, producer prodding and manipulation, tiredness etc. While I agree, all of these come into play, it is very early in the season...she hasn't even left the country yet...and she has already lost it a few times with apparently more to come. That is just a bit too much for my taste. I had the same feeling with Emily and boy was it hard swimming up stream with all her defenders. I'm just finding Andi very MeAndi...too over the top, too dramatic...for my personal taste. She is not a horrible Bette and I think she is giving the producers a show but, personally, I just find her personality off putting.

I agree with both of you to an extend but I frame it differently.  
She needs to find the guy who sees very few of these traits as flaws.  That's really what relationships are about after the honeymoon period; you get to where you only have butterflies on even days and on odd days it becomes more about how you lift each other up or deal with the large & the small.
I think by her showing what her outbursts are like, her snarkiness, her wanting others to share but sharing little of her own, her analytical nature, etc she has a better chance of determining who sees her for who she is and accepts that.

I do, however, think her age is a factor.  Assertive analytical people can mellow with age. I think she will benefit from further life experiences.

ITA (notarose - speaking from experience, eh?). Also, we are seeing bits and pieces of Andi out of several weeks (9-10?) of taping. Albeit her negative qualities are magnified (TPTB drama) some outtakes that make her endearing don't make it into the story. I seriously believe she is self-deprecating, based on her outtakes from JPs season - making fun of herself dancing. I have not liked any B'ette, except Trista, didn't like Deanna and am prepared to dislike Andi, but so far I can identify with Andi especially with the bolded.

Q: At what point (which episode) during JP season did viewers start disliking him (Clare ocean-gate?) I think my turning point was that episode (but I still thought JP was redeemable, except it went downhill from there (helped by TPTB edits of course).

[Litta123]

^^It might have been the Seoul, Korea episode...so the one before oceangate. Some viewers were turned off by Juan's inconsistency in who he would kiss. He refused to kiss Lauren because of Camila, but then minutes later he made out with Clare. People felt he used his daughter as an excuse instead of just owning how he was feeling.

[notarose]

There are several reasons that could account for Andi's edit, which I don't think has been a very flattering edit:

1.  Drama sells, romance doesn't.
2.  Andi and DeAnna are twins from another mother.
3.  MF loves irony, and will take a strength and edit it to look like a flaw.
4.  Alcohol and lack of sleep  ...  they do this on purpose to get the drama, spontaneity in a formatted show.
5.  TPTB aren't sold on the final couple  ... they don't think there's a chance the couple will last long beyond the bubble.
6.  Andi and her F1 are broken up.

All of your points are spot on in terms of how they edit someone but, the bolded is what I said at the end of last season. They use this trick all the time, particularly if they feel someone is getting full of themselves. I just don't see Andi having much of a sense of humour and that is a big turn of for me.

I know many are justifying her edit as her just having an analytical personality, producer prodding and manipulation, tiredness etc. While I agree, all of these come into play, it is very early in the season...she hasn't even left the country yet...and she has already lost it a few times with apparently more to come. That is just a bit too much for my taste. I had the same feeling with Emily and boy was it hard swimming up stream with all her defenders. I'm just finding Andi very MeAndi...too over the top, too dramatic...for my personal taste. She is not a horrible Bette and I think she is giving the producers a show but, personally, I just find her personality off putting.

I agree with both of you to an extend but I frame it differently.  
She needs to find the guy who sees very few of these traits as flaws.  That's really what relationships are about after the honeymoon period; you get to where you only have butterflies on even days and on odd days it becomes more about how you lift each other up or deal with the large & the small.
I think by her showing what her outbursts are like, her snarkiness, her wanting others to share but sharing little of her own, her analytical nature, etc she has a better chance of determining who sees her for who she is and accepts that.

I do, however, think her age is a factor.  Assertive analytical people can mellow with age. I think she will benefit from further life experiences.

ITA (notarose - speaking from experience, eh?).  Also, we are seeing bits and pieces of Andi out of several weeks (9-10?) of taping.  Albeit her negative qualities are magnified (TPTB drama) some outtakes that make her endearing don't make it into the story.  I seriously believe she is self-deprecating, based on her outtakes from JPs season - making fun of herself dancing.  I have not liked any B'ette, except Trista, didn't like Deanna and am prepared to dislike Andi, but so far I can identify with Andi especially with the bolded.

Q: At what point (which episode) during JP season did viewers start disliking him (Clare ocean-gate?) I think my turning point was that episode (but I still thought JP was redeemable, except it went downhill from there (helped by TPTB edits of course).

My response to the bolded   

[Catdwoman50]

^^It might have been the Seoul, Korea episode...so the one before oceangate. Some viewers were turned off by Juan's inconsistency in who he would kiss. He refused to kiss Lauren because of Camila, but then minutes later he made out with Clare. People felt he used his daughter as an excuse instead of just owning how he was feeling.

Thanks Litta, yep that too. Clearly either he wasn't an equal opportunist or was simply lying so he wouldn't have to kiss those he didn't really felt like kissing.

[stuckinsc]

^^It might have been the Seoul, Korea episode...so the one before oceangate. Some viewers were turned off by Juan's inconsistency in who he would kiss. He refused to kiss Lauren because of Camila, but then minutes later he made out with Clare. People felt he used his daughter as an excuse instead of just owning how he was feeling.

Thanks Litta, yep that too.  Clearly either he wasn't an equal opportunist or was simply lying so he wouldn't have to kiss those he didn't really felt like kissing.

I liked JPG so I have to defend him a little on this. He told Clare he wouldn't kiss her and she kept flirting and asking for it and he gave in. It wasn't like he kissed her without her begging for it.

[nd4reality]

^^It might have been the Seoul, Korea episode...so the one before oceangate. Some viewers were turned off by Juan's inconsistency in who he would kiss. He refused to kiss Lauren because of Camila, but then minutes later he made out with Clare. People felt he used his daughter as an excuse instead of just owning how he was feeling.

Thanks Litta, yep that too.  Clearly either he wasn't an equal opportunist or was simply lying so he wouldn't have to kiss those he didn't really felt like kissing.

I liked JPG so I have to defend him a little on  this.  He told Clare he wouldn't kiss her and she kept flirting and asking for it and he gave in.  It wasn't like he kissed her without her begging for it.

Thanks for saying that.

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