*NO SPOILERS* The Bachelorette 10 - Episode Discussion

LibbyBell wrote:

Peppermom wrote:

alwaystulips wrote:Sure, I can see the producers feeding Nick the line of "you're the frontrunner" and he bought it.  But, this is what I don't understand  If he's studied the show, as he said last episode he has, he would question everything they tell him.  To me, his actions are so overly confident, it almost feels like he made some deal with TPTB for the ending.  I just can't believe he thinks there's no one else Andi might have feelings for.  Unless Andi's also telling him that, which we can't see.

Maybe I'll feel differently after I see him with his family, but right now, the Nick I see on screen seems almost as scripted as Jef.  I don't think he'll be F1, though.  When Josh told Andi he was falling in love with her, her face showed who her F1 is.  That was a huge sign.  I've never seen her smile so big all season.

So agree with this, especially the bolded.  I think he is over-confident and way too cocky for me.  I like confident, I don't like cocky.  I don't see Andi telling him that he is the one.  I think he is her backup plan.  If she thinks Josh isn't going to propose or doesn't trust the future with him, Nick will be F1 unless he bails.

  with you both re: a similarity with Jef.
Peppermom, are you saying you think Josh will be F1 but Nick is her backup plan? (sorry-- I got confused)

Sorry I wasn't clear Libby. I do think Josh is F1 and Nick is the backup plan. Both good guys she cares for so I don't really know if you would call it settling, just not risking it all to have Josh.

Happy, I understand what you are saying about Nick being the one she is confident in how he feels but after last episode, I think she is more confident how Josh feels. I do think she has been chasing Josh and Nick is chasing her. Usually it is who the lead is chasing that is the last one standing in my opinion.

happygolucky wrote:Ok ... I'll be quick, don't have much time right now, so what I've came up with this morning is with finally resolving what has been bugging me about Andi's "connection" with both guys Josh and Nick ... I couldn't put down in words until now ... note: it could change the next episode, so I'm not sure if I stand firmly with this statement:
I feel like Andy likes the way she feels when she's with Nick, because he is that kind of person that gives you all the attention you need, so she feels not only comfortable and understood with him, but desired, sexy, needed, ... dunno, ALL ...
but
she has feelings for Josh that just don't fade from the first episode, 1on1 in the 2nd episode, kiss ... she just wants more of Josh ... she wants more from him, she "chases him" (as I read someone describe it), she needs him to be more open, more responsive, more engaging and when he does it (because he does eventually) she is over the mood, ecstatic, smitten ...

I don't know how else describe the feeling I get seeing her interact with these 2 very different men.
If you can give me you feed-back what you think ... maybe explain to me what I've just written, because I hardly understand myself right now.
Back to work - see ya later.

I agree with you that Andi seems to feel validated by Nick with his constant reassurances about how much he cares for her and his future intentions. Thus, I think her insecurities and well-admitted fears about having her heart broken are quieted at least temporarily. With Josh, I think she has felt those insecurities since at least in her opinion he has not been forthcoming enough with how he feels (in my opinion it has been written all over his face and in his actions since the get-go but I guess that clues us in about her love language) and therefore she is left facing her fear of a broken heart. So in those instances when Andi has felt reassured by Josh (at the dinner portion of their first 1-1 and certainly at dinner during their second one she is able to breathe deeply and relax into what I think her feelings are for Josh (the result being the look of almost rapture on her face). Yet, it takes courage to continue to walk toward something/someone who elicits our fears. That to me is her conflict - Nick is the safe choice (IMO); Josh requires her having that courage to trust what he is telling her about he feels. It will be interesting to see how courageous Andi is.

an error before - over the moon, I needed to write.

Yes, there is that fear/unknown factor with Josh that will probably be defining .

Oh, I realized what I really wanted to say before:
Andi loves the feelings she has when she's with Nick ... but I don't see her having feelings for Nick (as deep as for Josh) ...
am I more clear now?
I think it's sort of a projection but not reality ...
I could be so wrong, but that's the vibe I'm getting.

Pepper, thanks for the confirmation; it is what I thought you were saying but I didn't want to assume! Doc, I agree totally with how you summed up happy's post!

Insightful posts...always interesting to me what so many "see", same points of view/or so different on the same subject matter!

Rewatched a few dates, a few thoughts-tried writing down only those ITM’s that actually pertain to the person, it’s hard to tell in a lot of them. Voice overs can be just about anyone.
 
Epi 1-Nick-first impression rose-Andi thinks he’s sincere, genuine, etc. Josh-her type, attracted too, but uh oh he’s an athlete.

Epi 2-Nick sets up small date for Andi at cocktail party. Andi sees them on the “same page”.  Josh-she stereotypes him, athlete so can she really trust him…this will be in the back of her mind throughout the show.

Epi 3-Nick’s 1^st date-guys and Andi know he’s skeptical, not sure believes in whole process. Says crushing on her. Andi’s ITM-he’s honest, genuine, etc. –got rose. His immature relationship and short engagement started making me go hmmm. Josh-group date, great 1on1, he likes everything about her, she’s liking what she’s hearing and feeling, Josh gets group date rose. Nick at cocktail party sends flowers during her time with Eric…she loved it.

Epi 4-Nick on group date is very confident. Eric…bummed we didn’t get to see more of him, loved his honesty, if only Andi was hearing what he was saying, things might have been so different.

Epi 5-Beginning of show Chris says to Andi-falling in love? Andi-yes. Chris-Just one guy? Andi-No. A race between Nick & Josh at this point…and maybe a little for Marcus, but he ruined all that with all the “love” comments. Josh & Andi have a great date, look just like a couple-swinging hands, always kissing her & holding her, etc. He wants to travel, so does she. She has her guard up, but towards end it was down and she felt great & happy with this date. Oh and there was that “lucky poop” haha. Nick-mime date-not a great attitude, he’s cocky, mocking Cody-a bit of confrontation about it and I think this is where Andi starts having some doubts about Nick. He knows Andi isn’t happy with him, so he says his quick sorry and just happens to have a poem all ready to disfuse the situation…Andi loved it-weird he doesn’t hold her during their ‘makeup’ kissing. Can understand how Cody felt when Nick got his 2^nd 1on1 date and he hadn’t had one yet-not very cool of Andi knowing how that situation went down. She didn’t care though, she wanted things good and back on track asap for one of her favorites...and Cody def. wasn't one of them.

Epi 6-Nick’s 2^nd date, not a romantic beginning-and here’s the thing, Nick isn’t romantic to me-he does some of the ‘right’ things, but most of them are done the wrong way- *flowers-during Eric’s 1on1 time (nice way to stir the pot with the guys) *poem-after she had confronted him and giving him the stone face, him saying his name at end of that also was kind of a put off for me, but of course Andi loved it. *says falling in love-it was unbelievable, she was leaning over holding his hand…he should have been leaning towards her, holding her hand…he was to laid back. Up to this point I really feel he wasn’t into her like she was obviously into him.  Now Josh on the other hand hasn’t given her these things BUT he says how he feels through his actions, the way he looks at her, talks with her, defends her and boy can he kiss her-he’s ALL in! Then the lie detector date happens, it didn’t go well, Josh took it as a personal attack, Andi misunderstood Josh and they both got frustrated and her ‘new’ trust of Josh has been dashed and she’s doubting again. She’s really upset as shown in that ITM. Even at the end of the group date talking to the guys she says “I’m not going to lie, it’s getting weird for me, there’s some really confusing feelings, there’s some doubt that JUST popped into my mind…interesting group date”. Josh in his ITM-“talking to her earlier tonight, the whole mood changed,..turned into a little bit of a heated argument-worried”. Then we see Andi breaking down in her ITM ‘it’s a fairytale, because it really doesn’t happen’ etc. BUT they don’t show this part on the episode during the episode it happened, just her feeling how she could have been so wrong, etc. She really liked Josh and had strong feelings for him to get that much emotion out of Andi, she doesn’t cry often! Cocktail party-Nick steals her right away, having that 2^nd date & rose/security. Nick is now VERY confident & kisses her right away. Guys are not impressed with his move. Josh states he left on a sour note with Andi. During their 1on1, she says she sees potential heartbreak with him, Josh says, not going to happen at all. Things got resolved a bit, Andi felt better about things-she did keep him and he got another date before hometowns.

Epi 7-Cocky Nick all over the place on this episode. I already said what I thought about this in an earlier post and stand by it. Nick was analyzing that group date rose and he was determined to get it. Well, we know how he went about doing that. Josh gets his 2^nd date-again, she doesn’t want him to break her heart-she finally hears what she’s been waiting for from him-her face said it all! Her fairytale just might be coming true! Interesting that Andi comments on her blog that very same word on that date. Kissing in the doorway-so romantic! Like I said before it was game over at this point.
 
Andi wants someone to fight for her, be passionate, say all those right words, love her, treat her like a princess…have that fairytale. Head/Heart, yes...her head was telling her Nick was for her, but her heart belongs to Josh…agree with all who said this!
 
I think this whole thing started off as a game for Nick (this probably won’t work out, so I’ll stick around, do all the right things and try and be the next bach), but I’m ‘hoping’ he got caught up in it and actually did fall for the girl in the process. Just wish he’d of gone about the game a little more fairly/nicely…and then I ‘might’ of liked him.
 
So Josh was his buddy for the first part of the show, how is he towards him on SM? Do they still have their bromance going, that might make me feel he was genuine, to a point.

I won't try to change your mind Lost. Or anyone else's ... I've decided that it's time for me to "back off defending Nick" - because I believe his true nature will shine through eventually or at least to those who need to care ... and once I'm done with my letter-answer I'll post it my observations....
so, I even believe that what you've seen is pretty much what most people see - because the majority is for Josh and very much against Nick, because of his attitude (which for me isn't done out of the game as most people think and actually is very genuine and real, but off course very analyzed and thought-through, because that's his nature) ...
the only thing that I can guarantee you and this is the only thing I would really disagree with you is about him "playing for becoming a Bach".
Don't think so, because there is no way Nick could be a Bach, not only because of the edit he's getting, but also because to him the whole process isn't really for him - and he is seeing that, very much up-front about not liking it, so I would talk almost with certainty that he would never do it ... but then if he does - that would be a real shocker for me.

happygolucky wrote:I won't try to change your mind Lost. Or anyone else's ... I've decided that it's time for me to "back off defending Nick" - because I believe his true nature will shine through eventually or at least to those who need to care ... and once I'm done with my letter-answer I'll post it my observations....
so, I even believe that what you've seen is pretty much what most people see - because the majority is for Josh and very much against Nick, because of his attitude (which for me isn't done out of the game as most people think and actually is very genuine and real, but off course very analyzed and thought-through, because that's his nature) ...
the only thing that I can guarantee you and this is the only thing I would really disagree with you is about him "playing for becoming a Bach".
Don't think so, because there is no way Nick could be a Bach, not only because of the edit he's getting, but also because to him the whole process isn't really for him - and he is seeing that, very much up-front about not liking it, so I would talk almost with certainty that he would never do it ... but then if he does - that would be a real shocker for me.

I'm hoping HE can change my mind happy.   Being unspoiled gives us a different spin on it.  I'm curious to see how all these guys are outside the show, compared to what we're seeing with/through the edit, that's why I asked if Josh and Nick are still good buds. 

Ok on the bach part, just a thought I had. Not saying he did it in a bad way (hopefully)...because if you think about it, most are skeptical when they go on this show, they should be, only 1 is chosen after all and nothing wrong so much wanting to be the lead, I just want it to be someone I like...I don't want them being sneaky in getting it. Like some have said, Nick will probably get his "redeeming" edit and all will be good making some think he really is F1. I've been wrong a few times, doesn't bother me really who is F1 since I'm not a big fan of Andi's...it's fun to "analyze" though   ...and I'm always a sucker for a love story.

Lost-- great post!!

BTW ... the above thing ... I'm not talking out of my "spoiler-knowledge", I don't really know anything 100%, I know the information that is circulating the spoiled thread, but I don't give much importance to it, to be honest I got "spoiled" by accident, because when I came here I didn't notice right away this thread. So when I write here I'm talking just from my observation watching episodes... SPOILED INFORMATION so believe me when I tell you, it is so much better being completely out and "ignorant of it all" and just trust what you see/feel.
I just really can't picture Nick being Bach (this is something someone else wrote so I'm basically stealing the idea) ... because he is constantly complaining about how unnatural this whole process is and how stupid the whole group dates are, so he is practically killing his own chances.

After the final rose do you guys read the spoiled side to see what was going on?

I've really enjoyed visiting and reading all your posts.

Pander, sometimes I do if I know there has been a lot of dissention. Last season (JPG) I didn't. Let me know if you think I should with this season (if it will be entertaining)

LibbyBell wrote:Pander, sometimes I do if I know there has been a lot of dissention. Last season (JPG) I didn't. Let me know if you think I should with this season (if it will be entertaining)

Oh yes you should. There are a few nuggets that I think you'll find interesting to read about. Of course like all seasons each side   to death.