Bachelor Canada - Season 2 - *Sleuthing - *Spoilers* - *Speculation* - Discussion

Since this topic has nothing to do with Tweets and Media I will change it to Sleuthing Speculation Discussion.

GuardianAngel wrote:Since this topic has nothing to do with Tweets and Media I will change it to Sleuthing Speculation Discussion.

great idea GA. there really wasn't a thread for general stuff.

thanks!

Sorry, double post.

4health wrote:

Sprite wrote:^^ I appreciate all your effort 4health. I am looking forward to what you have about April tomorrow...or should I say later today.

One thing I want to say for myself...I see a connection with everyone left...it's just not necessarily a romantic connection. To that point, you quoted Tim talking about Trish..."I want to know if there is any seriousness beyond that" and "I guess what I am looking for from Trish is if that goes any deeper". To me this is typical, generic, Bachelor speak and is basically a diplomatic way of saying "I don't see anything there right now and doubt that anything can develop but, I have a show to do so I have to pretend to give it a try". but you missed where he states on camera "I can build a life with"....I did VOs because that is where editing comes into play. Also the comment you stated was a PI and you don't know when this was done and edited there to make the 2:1 decision look tough....it wasn't a ITM so for you to come to the conclusion is making a pretty big leap in my book.

I don't know if I can explain this so that it makes sense to others...it is so much easier making sense in my own head...but, when I look for signs if someone is a potential F1, I am looking for more direct and positive type clues. By that I mean that ideally I look for the lead speaking to the camera and saying a name. VO's can be edited more easily and taken out of context, although, if they include a name and are shown over the person being talked about, usually it signifies that they are trying to tell us something about the plot/relationship. But it's not just what is said. It is how it is said...tone, facial expression, body language. That is why direct interaction with the camera is the best.

When the lead is talking about someone, I look for more positive statements about them vs. more questioning. For example, the two quotes above are negative clues for me. They express doubt that there is anything there vs positive clues which are more hopeful. So saying, "I want so and so to open up to me" indicates that the lead is interested in that person and it is important for the lead to get to know that person. Saying "I can see/imagine what my life with X will be like" is also showing that the lead can see a longer term potential with that person. Hearing that "this relationship is developing slower than the rest" is usually the kiss of death in Bachelor speak.  I understand your thought process but when Tim says that this 2:1 date in a big decision because he will be thinking if he can spend a life with that person is what he was also making his decision on which I take as a pretty big deal and not so scripted.   Bianka was 2:1 recipient and look how that turned out ..... in his blog he says "Trisha and I made a connection that day and as hard as it was to see Rileigh off on the boat, I knew I had made the right decision...so I don't think it was a kiss of death situation for Trisha JMO color]

It's not an exact science and as I said, I'm not sure if I can fully explain my reasoning...particularly when I have to type it all out rather than just have a conversation with someone. It makes sense and works for me. The rest of you....you're on your own.

^^ Thanks for your input 4health. That is what I mean about an inexact science that I can't exactly explain. Sometimes it is just a feeling I get based on everything I see and hear. I never go through the episodes looking for specific quotes to see if it was spliced and diced or to see who was shown when a specific quote was said in VO's, etc. I just straight up watch the episode and form an opinion on what I see. (I've mentioned it before, but I work with very aggressive autistic individuals and as a result I have to read vocal, facial and body cues ASAP other wise I could be flying across the room. It is very quick and I have to go with my first instinct. No going back.) I guess I do the same here since I don't re-watch episodes.

My first gut instinct when I see Tim talking about Trish is not a romantic connection...more along the lines of I have a show to do and this is what I have to say and do to sell it. I could be wrong or things could change, but we will find out in a few weeks. In the mean time, I will continue to enjoy the show and look forward to seeing how Tim's "journey" ends.

Sprite wrote:^^ I appreciate all your effort 4health. I am looking forward to what you have about April tomorrow...or should I say later today.

One thing I want to say for myself...I see a connection with everyone left...it's just not necessarily a romantic connection. To that point, you quoted Tim talking about Trish..."I want to know if there is any seriousness beyond that" and "I guess what I am looking for from Trish is if that goes any deeper". To me this is typical, generic, Bachelor speak and is basically a diplomatic way of saying "I don't see anything there right now and doubt that anything can develop but, I have a show to do so I have to pretend to give it a try".

I don't know if I can explain this so that it makes sense to others...it is so much easier making sense in my own head...but, when I look for signs if someone is a potential F1, I am looking for more direct and positive type clues. By that I mean that ideally I look for the lead speaking to the camera and saying a name. VO's can be edited more easily and taken out of context, although, if they include a name and are shown over the person being talked about, usually it signifies that they are trying to tell us something about the plot/relationship. But it's not just what is said. It is how it is said...tone, facial expression, body language. That is why direct interaction with the camera is the best.

When the lead is talking about someone, I look for more positive statements about them vs. more questioning. For example, the two quotes above are negative clues for me. They express doubt that there is anything there vs positive clues which are more hopeful. So saying, "I want so and so to open up to me" indicates that the lead is interested in that person and it is important for the lead to get to know that person. Saying "I can see/imagine what my life with X will be like" is also showing that the lead can see a longer term potential with that person. Hearing that "this relationship is developing slower than the rest" is usually the kiss of death in Bachelor speak.

It's not an exact science and as I said, I'm not sure if I can fully explain my reasoning...particularly when I have to type it all out rather than just have a conversation with someone. It makes sense and works for me. The rest of you....you're on your own.

This is well said and I agree. I always feel like this too. Also, I think whenever there is a story line with a contestant I find that to be pretty telling. With April, it's her trust issues that we know continue in Moorea and we have Tim desperately trying to break through whatever walls she has up. From what I've heard, this is very similar to Brad and Bianka. I know that shows aren't the same, but still, I thought this was similar to the latest bachelorette season as well. With the actual F1, there was a story arc and things that needed to be worked through. With the F2 guy, it was easy.

I'm just going off by what I see and what I see as of right now is that Tim is the most into April. I think the next episode will be very interesting considering Trisha has her 1-on-1, but the good thing is that April just had hers, so I think it will be very telling to see how he interacts with Trisha versus how he interacted with April.

Also Sprite, I too kind of feel like in regards to Trisha and when you take out April, would Tim really take Kaylynn (emotional wreck), Lisa (a bit mean and causes some issues), or Sachelle (clearly views her as a friend) to the end? IMO, Trisha is the easy choice, but doesn't necessarily mean much. Who knows, maybe I'll change my tune after her 1-on-1.

Ash2214 wrote:

Also Sprite, I too kind of feel like in regards to Trisha and when you take out April, would Tim really take Kaylynn (emotional wreck), Lisa (a bit mean and causes some issues), or Sachelle (clearly views her as a friend) to the end? IMO, Trisha is the easy choice, but doesn't necessarily mean much. Who knows, maybe I'll change my tune after her 1-on-1.  

Yes, that is it. There has to be a show. There have to be several potential mates...or at least one other than April. How this whole show has gone down up to this point is they are showing us an overly emotional, dramatic Kaylynn, snarky, bitchy Lisa and nice girl Sachelle with no chemistry. Trish is the only other one left. Maybe they are hiding the connection really well, in which case kudos to the editing team, but I don't see it or feel it. Either way, I can't wait to see how this whole thing goes down.

Sprite wrote:^^ Thanks for your input. That is what I mean about an inexact science that I can't exactly explain. Sometimes it is just a feeling I get based on everything I see and hear. I never go through the episodes looking for specific quotes to see if it was spliced and diced or to see who was shown when a specific quote was said in VO's, etc. I just straight up watch the episode and form an opinion on what I see. (I've mentioned it before, but I work with very aggressive autistic individuals and as a result I have to read vocal, facial and body cues ASAP other wise I could be flying across the room. It is very quick and I have to go with my first instinct. No going back.) I guess I do the same here since I don't re-watch episodes.

My first gut instinct when I see Tim talking about Trish is not a romantic connection...more along the lines of I have a show to do and this is what I have to say and do to sell it. I could be wrong or things could change, but we will find out in a few weeks. In the mean time, I will continue to enjoy the show and see look forward to see how Tim's "journey" ends.

We enjoy this show for different reasons....you might not look at the VOs, ITMs or PIs but the editing of this reality TV show is what drives the story of each participate forward. I agree that right now the obvious F1 is April but I don't say that because I see such a great love connection and that it has been April from the start. From the start Tim has had questions about her, and he has admitted to on camera a couple times and in VOs. I come here on these boards to sleuth and figure out the edit and what the edited story is trying to tell us, because that is what this is, a edited reality TV show and misdirection is the name of game. I just don't know enough about the BACHCAN editing to make a sound decision because I don't know if they are wanting to hide the story or just go with the obvious story. I will not cave into thinking it is all about April until I see him state on camera how he feels for her, just like any of the other girls. They can splice and dice and edit to make anything look awesome, but until I see Tim tell someone to their face how he is feeling (I know he can't give it away) then I will continue to question things. So, that is probably what I will post next is what Tim says to each of the final girls face.

4health wrote:

Sprite wrote:^^ Thanks for your input. That is what I mean about an inexact science that I can't exactly explain. Sometimes it is just a feeling I get based on everything I see and hear. I never go through the episodes looking for specific quotes to see if it was spliced and diced or to see who was shown when a specific quote was said in VO's, etc. I just straight up watch the episode and form an opinion on what I see. (I've mentioned it before, but I work with very aggressive autistic individuals and as a result I have to read vocal, facial and body cues ASAP other wise I could be flying across the room. It is very quick and I have to go with my first instinct. No going back.) I guess I do the same here since I don't re-watch episodes.

My first gut instinct when I see Tim talking about Trish is not a romantic connection...more along the lines of I have a show to do and this is what I have to say and do to sell it. I could be wrong or things could change, but we will find out in a few weeks. In the mean time, I will continue to enjoy the show and see look forward to see how Tim's "journey" ends.

We enjoy this show for different reasons....you might not look at the VOs, ITMs or PIs but the editing of this reality TV show is what drives the story of each participate forward.   I agree that right now the obvious F1 is April but I don't say that because I see such a great love connection and that it has been April from the start.   From the start Tim has had questions about her, and he has admitted to on camera a couple times and in VOs.    I come here on these boards to sleuth and figure out the edit and what the edited story is trying to tell us, because that is what this is, a edited reality TV show and misdirection is the name of game.   I just don't know enough about the BACHCAN editing to make a sound decision because I don't know if they are wanting to hide the story or just go with the obvious story.    I will not cave into thinking it is all about April until I see him state on camera how he feels for her, just like any of the other girls.    They can splice and dice and edit to make anything look awesome, but until I see Tim tell someone to their face how he is feeling (I know he can't give it away) then I will continue to question things.    So, that is probably what I will post next is what Tim says to each of the final girls face.  

Oh, I understand how the editing drives the show and I am usually fairly aware when watching that something is a VO or sliced and diced to create an effect. I just don't go back and look for that kind of stuff. I do however, find it interesting to read when others do. Unfortunately, when I read those results, a case can usually be made for both sides since they do have a show to put on. Which side you lean toward is usually a subjective thing. That is why I usually go with what my first instinct was when I watch...although, it isn't over until the final twirl.

I am holding off posting I think until after Tuesday nights episode.   I think going into HTD is really when the story begins.     I just wish there was more to sleuth and figure out, that is way more fun, because I see the bachelor series as a fun past time and like reading novel and waiting to see how it ends.    If there is truly a love story then that's a bonus, but just on BACHCAN series (Brad and now Tim) Brad wasn't really looking for a long lasting partner/wife.  He was looking for a relationship yes and he had one for 16 months.  So, Brad had to work on Bianka to like him and continued to tell her to give me a chance.  Bianka was trying to figure out if she liked him before she will open up to him.   I wasn't into that relationship at all.   I didn't particular like Bianka and didn't enjoy seeing someone have to work so hard on a relationship to happen.   I didn't like Whitney but I liked watching the ease of that relationship.  Brad didn't know about her rudeness until after watching the season back, even after the girls warning him he didn't want to see it.  

In Tim's case I believe he is looking for more then just a relationship, I think he is looking at a possible life time kind of thing.     April admitted night one that she liked Tim it is Tim that has questions about April.  I haven't enjoyed watching April play kind of hard to get.  

So as my last post until Tuesday after the show I will state what I think is each individual storyline that was put out there night one.

Kaylynn -  First ITM she states "we definately has physical chemistry"  and then again "I think he likes me, we have emotional chemistry and sexual chemistry"  and insecure. CHEMISTRY EDIT  Usually Chemistry edit is F2?

Sachelle - ITM she says "I want to show him the real me"  COMFORTABLE / FRIEND Usually F4

April - ITM she says "I like him, we have a little bit of chemistry" and then the last ITM before RC she says "I don't think I will get a rose"  insecurities but during Tim's ITM he says "April Brockman comes across as sweet and innocent but a part of me wonders what is under that innocent veneer......those are the questions that need to be answered."  her storyline will be opening up.....we haven't seen her do that yet JMO    APRIL getting F1 edit / storyline arc

Trisha - ITM she states "hurts the heart"  about Tim giving out roses and then the second to last ITM is Trisha says "I don't want to not be good enough"  Insecure edit and right now the other thing that goes with this is her 2:1 date and is she good enough to win the rose on a 2:1    TRISHA the F2 edit? or F3 edit or hidden F1

Lisa - In first episode she is shown as the drama spilling a drink on Jenny and also Tim saying "she might be a handful?"  DRAMA Edit    F6 but in BACHCAN S1 Drama edit was F2

So like every book/story it is put in place in the first chapter/episode.  So, while posting these things up to this point in the series April and Trisha's edit storyline have the most question marks (meaning not drama, not chemistry/physical, not friend edit but what kind of it?) and need to be closed and isn't yet ....I will probably be able to fill those in after next week's episode and everyone would have had 1:1 dates.

that's pretty much how I had them pegged in my post too.

One thing I'd like to say about April ... I know it's just a figure of speech... but I don't think she's "playing" hard to get...I think she's super leery about opening up and has lots of walls up due to what happened in her 7 yr relationship, plus I think she knows enough about the show to know how many girls have been delusional and thought for sure the lead was in love with them and then let go, heartbroken. I think she's trying to avoid that at all costs.

4health wrote:I am holding off posting I think until after Tuesday nights episode.   I think going into HTD is really when the story begins.     I just wish there was more to sleuth and figure out, that is way more fun, because I see the bachelor series as a fun past time and like reading novel and waiting to see how it ends.    If there is truly a love story then that's a bonus, but just on BACHCAN series (Brad and now Tim) Brad wasn't really looking for a long lasting partner/wife.  He was looking for a relationship yes and he had one for 16 months.  So, Brad had to work on Bianka to like him and continued to tell her to give me a chance.  Bianka was trying to figure out if she liked him before she will open up to him.   I wasn't into that relationship at all.   I didn't particular like Bianka and didn't enjoy seeing someone have to work so hard on a relationship to happen.   I didn't like Whitney but I liked watching the ease of that relationship.  Brad didn't know about her rudeness until after watching the season back, even after the girls warning him he didn't want to see it.  

In Tim's case I believe he is looking for more then just a relationship, I think he is looking at a possible life time kind of thing.     April admitted night one that she liked Tim it is Tim that has questions about April.  I haven't enjoyed watching April play kind of hard to get.  

So as my last post until Tuesday after the show I will state what I think is each individual storyline that was put out there night one.

Kaylynn -  First ITM she states "we definately has physical chemistry"  and then again "I think he likes me, we have emotional chemistry and sexual chemistry"  and insecure. CHEMISTRY EDIT  Usually Chemistry edit is F2?

Sachelle - ITM she says "I want to show him the real me"  COMFORTABLE / FRIEND Usually F4

April - ITM she says "I little bit of chemistry" and then the last ITM before RC she says "I don't think I will get a rose"  insecurities but during Tim's ITM he says "April Brockman comes across as sweet and innocent but a part of me wonders what is under that innocent veneer......those are the questions that need to be answered."  her storyline will be opening up.....we haven't seen her do that yet JMO    APRIL getting F1 edit / storyline arc

Trisha - ITM she states "hurts the heart"  about Tim giving out roses and then the second to last ITM is Trisha says "I don't want to not be good enough"  Insecure edit and right now the other thing that goes with this is her 2:1 date and is she good enough to win the rose on a 2:1    TRISHA the F2 edit? or F3 edit

Lisa - In first episode she is shown as the drama spilling a drink on Jenny and also Tim saying "she might be a handful?"  DRAMA Edit    F6 but in BACHCAN S1 Drama edit was F2

So like every book/story it is put in place in the first chapter/episode.  So, while posting these things up to this point in the series April and Trisha's don't have certain type of edit....I will probably be able to fill those in after next week's episode and everyone would have had 1:1 dates.  

I agree that Tim is genuine about the process. I really, really like him as the lead. I'm enjoying it. It's always nice when the lead genuinely appears to be sincere. I disagree though that April is playing hard to get or that it's only Tim that has questions about April. I think it goes both ways.

Firstly, April opened up a bit to Tim this past week. She said she was in a seven year relationship and was cheated on or whatever "betrayed my trust" means. If she's 27, that means she met that person or started dating him when she was just 20 years old. She basically grew up and became a legitimate adult with that person and as she said, she thought she was going to marry him. To all of a sudden have that fall apart because someone broke your trust, well that must have been devastating. That would certainly lead to trust issues, not to mention the rough childhood she had to endure. I don't think April is playing hard to get. I think she straight up has some trust issues, doesn't want to get hurt, and is just being cautious. Let's face it - this is a completely unnatural situation and experience, which is something April has essentially said in her blogs and little snippets during the shows. She's not rushing into anything. She wants to see if it's right. That's not playing hard to get. That's being smart and protecting yourself.

April said on night one that there was a little bit of chemistry there, but it's too soon to really tell. She said numerous times on their 1-on-1 date that she didn't know if she could trust him yet and said straight to Tim's face that she agreed she knew nothing about him yet. Her blogs show this too. She clearly has questions about him and just like Tim has said, he wants to know more about April. They both have questions about each other and want to really know more, which I think is a great thing. This relationship is showing two people involved versus just one of the girls interested in Tim.

northernviewer wrote:that's pretty much how I had them pegged in my post too.

One thing I'd like to say about April ...  I know it's just a figure of speech... but I don't think she's "playing" hard to get...I think she's super leery about opening up and has lots of walls up due to what happened in her 7 yr relationship, plus I think she knows enough about the show to know how many girls have been delusional and thought for sure the lead was in love with them and then let go, heartbroken.  I think she's trying to avoid that at all costs.  

I wasn't going to post until Tuesday but I want to address you and Ash.  I agree to what we have learned since night one.  What I was referencing was the storyline given in Episode 1 and in April's highlight video she states "the bachelor should know that I am a lot more work then other women but I am worth it." plus putting a wager on a pool game for a kiss.  Also on the photoshot time she states that he wouldn't have gotten a kiss unless he did like he did that to me is  "playing" hard to get.  JMO  I didn't say it wasn't fun and a negative but she pretty much admits that in he video in my opinion.  Also in her video she mentions trust issues so no secret there. Pinned that story a mile away!

She opened up a little bit on her 1:1 but I was stating to the storyline first episode.   Also, on April's 1:1 date there wasn't much physical touching.  I think Tim is a physical touchy kind of guy and I didn't see it with April.  Hence why I say boring and playing hard to get.