Re: * No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 FINALE (LCD/MTP/FRC) Discussion- Thread #2

[Guest]

Was it implied by Clare that she slept with Juan Pablo? I didn't watch the Season but now I'm curious about what JP said to her that she couldn't repeat.

"I loved f**king you" is the statement she didn't want to repeat, but she did in the heat of the moment after her rejection. Pretty much implies they slept together. And I for one have no difficult believing they slept together and that he said that.

That's how TPTB play folks like a fiddle every season. All they have to do is leave the innuendo and people will take it in any direction they want. She denied oceangate hmmm. I can maybe see no cameras after the heli landed but not the mics and she made it a point to tell us in vo that probably was done after taping, because of the sound bite. Why we didn't see anymore of that date after they started walking up the hill, they cut to the night portion...maybe because it wouldn't align with their lie.

In the previews, it was shown JP and Claire hugging and kissing on top of the mountain. But it was no longer aired during the LCD episode. You are right with the bolded, it won't fit with the edit.

Good catch!

[pbmax]

Was it implied by Clare that she slept with Juan Pablo? I didn't watch the Season but now I'm curious about what JP said to her that she couldn't repeat.

"I loved f**king you" is the statement she didn't want to repeat, but she did in the heat of the moment after her rejection. Pretty much implies they slept together. And I for one have no difficult believing they slept together and that he said that.

That's how TPTB play folks like a fiddle every season. All they have to do is leave the innuendo and people will take it in any direction they want. She denied oceangate hmmm. I can maybe see no cameras after the heli landed but not the mics and she made it a point to tell us in vo that probably was done after taping, because of the sound bite. Why we didn't see anymore of that date after they started walking up the hill, they cut to the night portion...maybe because it wouldn't align with their lie.

In the previews, it was shown JP and Claire hugging and kissing on top of the mountain. But it was no longer aired during the LCD episode. You are right with the bolded, it won't fit with the edit.

I thought it was strange when I was watching. Then aftetward it all became clear. We would have seen that things were fine then. A mixture of vo, PI's and ITM tells me it can't be trusted.

[George1218]

Great post.

Clare cried wolf once too many times. She played victim to the hilt. Sadly there are many women out there that don't own to their own responsibility in relationships. Just because he is a guy he is being dragged through the mud.

Yep, that's the way I see it. I'm not defending anyone's actions. I'm simply stating that both people played a part in this.

ITA with both of these so much!!     posts!!!!

[2observe]

Shame on Clare if he said that to her and she was still willing to continue on the journey with him. For her to still be all loved up and talk about a song on their wedding day speaks volumes about her. He treated the women with respect and kissed a few, he even had to be bamboozled into kissing Renee because she wouldn't let it go about him kissing her.
The women who are crying foul are the ones who wanted time with him, but he didn't budge and was not willing to act it out by being a sleaze and kissing all or making empty promises.
Clare played a victim during ocean-gate, if you were that offended you should have left!!!
Nothing he said could have chased Clare away, and maybe he did say "that" ( I doubt it though) so she could up and leave like Andi did. afterall he did not like hurting people byu saying goodbye. Clare pushed the physical and then cried wolf when she got it back from him.
NIkki and Charlene if she had stayed were always going to be his F2. They were the only 2 people he chased in the show.
And lets not forget how compassionate he was with the women, giving them all time to talk( as they all said), and sad when he hurt them. A man who can manage to have a fantastic relationship with the mother of his child that she is happy to be around his family is a good man in my books!

    I could not have said it any better. Great post!

[Guest]

The whole "some women deserve it" in terms of being treated as sex objects only is a very bad path to travel down IMO. JPG slut shamed Clare over and over and it's a testament to what a chauvinist he is and how he views women. It's very reminiscent of Brad treating Chantal and Ashley (until she showed her sharp little teeth and told him off) as these naughty girls to hook up with and the pedestal was reserved for Emily. It's seriously messed up. I know it is probably part of JPG's culture and maybe Nikki is okay with it, but his treatment of Clare says much more about him than her.

True. I guess one can easily forget who was taking her to the first date which required a bikini, asking her to sneak around in the pool before the ocean gate, making the Vietnam GD as 1-1 date ( and stole some besitos), breaking his own rule for not kissing anyone in SK by those choc-flavored besitos, playing that cheesy song over and over ( maybe he views  Clare as his best lover?)..the list goes on.... And ultimately  the infamous banter: "just tell me you love me"... " umm IDK you... But I love effing you".. . What a warm-hearted compliment. Hands down, What a well-rounded gentleman!! .
(For those who curio why there was no audio or cameraman around , can check out Jason-Molly podcast part 1 for details ).

ItA with both of these!    

Every girl on the Bachelor will eventually wear a bikini. I know JuanB did not plan the date, only chose who to go with. He went on Bikini dates with many more. lets be honest here...Clare was all about the physical. she knew it, played it and couldn't handle it when it was all she got back.
He did the whole Besitos thing with Andi, and when Andi felt insulted she left. Clare shpuld have done the same. She got overly confident and felt entitled and when it did not go her way, she became a meanie.
The whole woman scorned act at the end was laughable. you were ready to marry him a minute ago and suddenly you wouldn't choose him to father your kids.   

Yes, I know the rules, but the highlighted statement is what is laughable! Have we not all seen strong women in our own lives completely fall for a guy, give a dead beat relationship their all and then suddenly wake-up to the realization that the guy and relationship is not what they hoped/thought it was?! It is very possible to see a guy as your "prince" in one day and have the scales fall of your eyes the next and see that he truly is your "monster."
Very Possible!!!

This has happened to a TV person, and all of a sudden everyone is on their judgemental trip, acting as if they've never been there. As if they've never played the fool, or known anyone whose played the fool, over a guy. Someone has a normal human reaction to unexpected heartbreak, and she is playing the victim, is playing the woman scorned? Ish!!! Clare has moved on, JP and Nikki have moved on.

Promote what you Love Instead of Bashing what you Hate!

I agree, but wanted to comment on the last line. What Jpabs did should not be tolerated in society or swept under the rug. He should be called out. This isn't about Clare specifically. He disrespected a woman and used her. We have seen past F2's led on, but this is the first time I can recall them being thrown out like trash. All this about the edit is bizarre IMO. We saw his behavior LIVE and it only reinforced the edit and then some!! I think it's perfectly fine to hate what he represents. Men like him are a threat to all our daughters and as a mother, I will raise my sons to do better and my daughter to be super careful- because society, even women will blame the woman when men behave like this.  

[Guest]

^^^Good points Grace.

[iamreal2u]

One thing Clare has not moved on she is still trying to carve a niche for herself. Still not seeing how Clare was used more so than all the other F2s.. but again that is my opinion.

[Aunties_Love]

Shame on Clare if he said that to her and she was still willing to continue on the journey with him. For her to still be all loved up and talk about a song on their wedding day speaks volumes about her. He treated the women with respect and kissed a few, he even had to be bamboozled into kissing Renee because she wouldn't let it go about him kissing her.
The women who are crying foul are the ones who wanted time with him, but he didn't budge and was not willing to act it out by being a sleaze and kissing all or making empty promises.
Clare played a victim during ocean-gate, if you were that offended you should have left!!!
Nothing he said could have chased Clare away, and maybe he did say "that" ( I doubt it though) so she could up and leave like Andi did. afterall he did not like hurting people byu saying goodbye. Clare pushed the physical and then cried wolf when she got it back from him.
NIkki and Charlene if she had stayed were always going to be his F2. They were the only 2 people he chased in the show.
And lets not forget how compassionate he was with the women, giving them all time to talk( as they all said), and sad when he hurt them. A man who can manage to have a fantastic relationship with the mother of his child that she is happy to be around his family is a good man in my books!

WOW. Bottom line, he wasn't the person that she thought he was and when she made up her mind, she finally stood up to him and as per her on ATFR, it took guts and awareness to do it that day. Now his reaction to her standing up to him was classic of a guy that has to control the situation and no one is allowed to talk back. What bothered her about ocean gate is how he spoke to her, not the action of going into the ocean. I think that idea gets lost in translation...the concept that he can treat people bad and it is supposed to be washed away like the spring rain. Doesn't happen in reality. Sheesh.

[Alanna]

Right, she didn't care about going into the ocean, she cared about his reaction. Same as when he told her on their LCD that he respected her when she denied him besitos but then she broke her own rule and blah blah blah. I hope that he sees Nikki as both a gorgeous girl he likes to "#*!" in his words to Clare and also a partner but I doubt it from his past behavior.

[iamreal2u]

I am so tired with oceangate:

1) Chelsie in an interview said that JuanPa wanted Nikki from Week 2. If she knows this I am sure that Clare did also.
2) Clare showed up at his room at 4 am wanting to go to a warm ocean. He went. Fine.
3) Clare started to act like she own him giving a toast to making love. Hinting at a sexual relationship. JuanPa stepped back and said wait a minute this is not right.
4) He approached her and said that they cannot do that(whatever that is) again because it was not fair to the other girls. But did Clare listen, no she did not care. So JuanPa came out with his big gun, his daughter. Everything went to hell in a handbag after that.

For Clare and everyone to place the blame solely on JuanPa is absolutely nuts. IMO of course.

[notarose]

Clare said she never wanted him to be father to her children.
JPG said he was glad he didn't pick her.

Seems to me they finally agree on something. They don't want each other. Sounds good to me.

[iamreal2u]

Clare said she never wanted him to be father to her children.
JPG said he was glad he didn't pick her.

Seems to me they finally agree on something.  They don't want each other.  Sounds good to me.

Are you kidding me.  He is a really bad person.  

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