Re: * No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 FINALE (LCD/MTP/FRC) Discussion- Thread #2

[notarose]

Clare said she never wanted him to be father to her children.
JPG said he was glad he didn't pick her.

Seems to me they finally agree on something.  They don't want each other.  Sounds good to me.

Are you kidding me.  He is a really bad person.  

  

[Guest]

I am so tired with oceangate:

1) Chelsie in an interview said that JuanPa wanted Nikki from Week 2.  If she knows this I am sure that Clare did also.
2) Clare showed up at his room at 4 am wanting to go to a warm ocean.  He went.  Fine.
3) Clare started to act like she own him giving a toast to making love.  Hinting at a sexual relationship.  JuanPa stepped back and said wait a minute this is not right.  
4) He approached her and said that they cannot do that(whatever that is) again because it was not fair to the other girls. But did Clare listen, no she did not care.  So JuanPa came out with his big gun, his daughter.  Everything went to hell in a handbag after that.

For Clare and everyone to place the blame solely on JuanPa is absolutely nuts. IMO of course.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but what is your definition of using a woman if that doesn't qualify? Clare wouldn't have known he already knew based on his behavior on the group date that day. He took her to his pool, was kissing her in those little boats and gave her the GD rose.

[Aunties_Love]

I dont know about y'all but this was my best season of the Bachelor EVER!
Its realistic, flawed, honest and ended with two people who actually get each other.
Not saying everything JP did was right but isnt that waht being human is about? Its real, we all live in a world where we sometimes do wrong, say wrong and act wrong. We have been sold this fairytale ending for years and years and only got 3 lucky ones from a possible.....20/ 25 endings. Not everyone is expressive or quock to fall in love. Some take their time. It was Juan Pablos moment and he navigated it as best as he could. Remained open( unlike pasts who claimed to) and went with th girl best suited to him.
Chris Harrison isnt a god that cant be spoken back at, I am especially happy JP didnt pander to the production's crap.
Sean and catherine, bless them, have their asses owned for now. They surely cant afford to bite the hands that feeds them.

I wish JP and Nikki nothing but the best and as nikki said, time will tell. Cant see them doing any worse than the many in love couples that have graced our screens from the bachelor land.

I disagree. I have a cousin with aspergers that can listen and communicate better than pabs. CH told him all of us went on this journey with him and he responded with, "It doesn't matter." That is basically how he has responded to anyone's disappointment or hurt all season. IT DOESN"T MATTER! He can't even acknowledge it. Think about what he said to Clare in the helicopter, yet still no regret? We know he is capable of this, so why would Nikki be immune from it? It's just a matter of time before he treats Nikki with the same disrespect. I would say he is a narcissist, but I think he is just really really dumb- "simple" as his mom said. It has nothing to do with the him not proposing or saying he loves her yet. For anyone, celebrating Nikki and paps, would you want your daughter with him? I bet Nikki's parents are mortified by it all.

  And I completely believe he said that to Clare.  

I believe he said that to Clare too.  As far as JP and how he treats women, guess we have to wait to see what comes out in the wash.  Think his colors will show sooner or later with Nikki too.

I agree with all of this. We've talked alot about how tptb edits a season and how they can either idolize or vilify their lead. But maybe what they do is take the dominant characteristics that they witness from yards and yards of film and allow that to form the story of their lead.

I agree w/all of this as well.  ATFR was a show that was not edited, so Juan Pablo had his chance to show the general public that he was not that guy the TPTB were editing him be.  And what does he do?  He comes out and shows everybody he really is that guy and much worse, too!  He really came across like a real jerk with how badly he wanted to stick it to TPTB above all else.  I really agree w/the poster who said that Nikki's parents have to be mortified about this whole thing.  I know her brother had a supportive tweet about her and Juan Pablo the day ATFR aired, but I have not seen any supporting statements from her parents.  As the mother of a young adult daughter, I would be extremely unhappy if my daughter was in Nikki's position.

I agree. He was given a chance to come out and show his true self that isn't edited, yet he comes out and looks a lot worse than before. Geez, either this guy is done, fed up, or daft. For him to not realize that by not providing details, he's actually fueling the fire more and looking like a dope in the meantime. Sheesh.

[Aunties_Love]

The whole "some women deserve it" in terms of being treated as sex objects only is a very bad path to travel down IMO. JPG slut shamed Clare over and over and it's a testament to what a chauvinist he is and how he views women. It's very reminiscent of Brad treating Chantal and Ashley (until she showed her sharp little teeth and told him off) as these naughty girls to hook up with and the pedestal was reserved for Emily. It's seriously messed up. I know it is probably part of JPG's culture and maybe Nikki is okay with it, but his treatment of Clare says much more about him than her.

True. I guess one can easily forget who was taking her to the first date which required a bikini, asking her to sneak around in the pool before the ocean gate, making the Vietnam GD as 1-1 date ( and stole some besitos), breaking his own rule for not kissing anyone in SK by those choc-flavored besitos, playing that cheesy song over and over ( maybe he views  Clare as his best lover?)..the list goes on.... And ultimately  the infamous banter: "just tell me you love me"... " umm IDK you... But I love effing you".. . What a warm-hearted compliment. Hands down, What a well-rounded gentleman!! .
(For those who curio why there was no audio or cameraman around , can check out Jason-Molly podcast part 1 for details ).

ItA with both of these!    

Every girl on the Bachelor will eventually wear a bikini. I know JuanB did not plan the date, only chose who to go with. He went on Bikini dates with many more. lets be honest here...Clare was all about the physical. she knew it, played it and couldn't handle it when it was all she got back.
He did the whole Besitos thing with Andi, and when Andi felt insulted she left. Clare shpuld have done the same. She got overly confident and felt entitled and when it did not go her way, she became a meanie.
The whole woman scorned act at the end was laughable. you were ready to marry him a minute ago and suddenly you wouldn't choose him to father your kids.   

Yes, I know the rules, but the highlighted statement is what is laughable! Have we not all seen strong women in our own lives completely fall for a guy, give a dead beat relationship their all and then suddenly wake-up to the realization that the guy and relationship is not what they hoped/thought it was?! It is very possible to see a guy as your "prince" in one day and have the scales fall of your eyes the next and see that he truly is your "monster."
Very Possible!!!

This has happened to a TV person, and all of a sudden everyone is on their judgemental trip, acting as if they've never been there. As if they've never played the fool, or known anyone whose played the fool, over a guy. Someone has a normal human reaction to unexpected heartbreak, and she is playing the victim, is playing the woman scorned? Ish!!! Clare has moved on, JP and Nikki have moved on.

Promote what you Love Instead of Bashing what you Hate!

I completely agree with the bolded/underlined. All that is very possible and DOES happen in real life relationships. Why should that reaction be any different cause it is happening on a tv show??

[iamreal2u]

I am so tired with oceangate:

1) Chelsie in an interview said that JuanPa wanted Nikki from Week 2.  If she knows this I am sure that Clare did also.
2) Clare showed up at his room at 4 am wanting to go to a warm ocean.  He went.  Fine.
3) Clare started to act like she own him giving a toast to making love.  Hinting at a sexual relationship.  JuanPa stepped back and said wait a minute this is not right.  
4) He approached her and said that they cannot do that(whatever that is) again because it was not fair to the other girls. But did Clare listen, no she did not care.  So JuanPa came out with his big gun, his daughter.  Everything went to hell in a handbag after that.

For Clare and everyone to place the blame solely on JuanPa is absolutely nuts. IMO of course.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but what is your definition of using a woman if that doesn't qualify? Clare wouldn't have known he already knew based on his behavior on the group date that day. He took her to his pool, was kissing her in those little boats and gave her the GD rose.

BTW I am not trying to argumentative either. But, taking her to his pool and kissing her in the boats did not mean that she was the frontrunner. She should known better. She is 32 years old. The problem came in when she started to brag, that is when JuanPa stopped it before it became a problem for everyone else. At least that is how I saw it.

[pbmax]

One thing Clare has not moved on she is still trying to carve a niche for herself. Still not seeing how Clare was used more so than all the other F2s.. but again that is my opinion.

I still can't see either. I guess I need a special kind of glasses.

[FLChica]

I am so tired with oceangate:

1) Chelsie in an interview said that JuanPa wanted Nikki from Week 2.  If she knows this I am sure that Clare did also.
2) Clare showed up at his room at 4 am wanting to go to a warm ocean.  He went.  Fine.
3) Clare started to act like she own him giving a toast to making love.  Hinting at a sexual relationship.  JuanPa stepped back and said wait a minute this is not right.  
4) He approached her and said that they cannot do that(whatever that is) again because it was not fair to the other girls. But did Clare listen, no she did not care.  So JuanPa came out with his big gun, his daughter.  Everything went to hell in a handbag after that.

For Clare and everyone to place the blame solely on JuanPa is absolutely nuts. IMO of course.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but what is your definition of using a woman if that doesn't qualify? Clare wouldn't have known he already knew based on his behavior on the group date that day. He took her to his pool, was kissing her in those little boats and gave her the GD rose.

Clare knew that she was competing with other women for his "love" on a scripted, televised reality dating show. They were not in an exclusive relationship by any stretch of the imagination. Clare is 32 years old, not an innocent pre-teen that was taken advantage of by an older man.

Clare willingly went into the pool with JP and returned his kisses - willingly. He rewarded her with the group date rose. This should have been enough validation for Clare, but it was not.

What JP did not do was go to Clare's room at 4:00 in the morning. That was Clare's doing. It didn't work out the way she expected.

[pbmax]

The whole "some women deserve it" in terms of being treated as sex objects only is a very bad path to travel down IMO. JPG slut shamed Clare over and over and it's a testament to what a chauvinist he is and how he views women. It's very reminiscent of Brad treating Chantal and Ashley (until she showed her sharp little teeth and told him off) as these naughty girls to hook up with and the pedestal was reserved for Emily. It's seriously messed up. I know it is probably part of JPG's culture and maybe Nikki is okay with it, but his treatment of Clare says much more about him than her.

True. I guess one can easily forget who was taking her to the first date which required a bikini, asking her to sneak around in the pool before the ocean gate, making the Vietnam GD as 1-1 date ( and stole some besitos), breaking his own rule for not kissing anyone in SK by those choc-flavored besitos, playing that cheesy song over and over ( maybe he views  Clare as his best lover?)..the list goes on.... And ultimately  the infamous banter: "just tell me you love me"... " umm IDK you... But I love effing you".. . What a warm-hearted compliment. Hands down, What a well-rounded gentleman!! .
(For those who curio why there was no audio or cameraman around , can check out Jason-Molly podcast part 1 for details ).

ItA with both of these!    

Every girl on the Bachelor will eventually wear a bikini. I know JuanB did not plan the date, only chose who to go with. He went on Bikini dates with many more. lets be honest here...Clare was all about the physical. she knew it, played it and couldn't handle it when it was all she got back.
He did the whole Besitos thing with Andi, and when Andi felt insulted she left. Clare shpuld have done the same. She got overly confident and felt entitled and when it did not go her way, she became a meanie.
The whole woman scorned act at the end was laughable. you were ready to marry him a minute ago and suddenly you wouldn't choose him to father your kids.   

Yes, I know the rules, but the highlighted statement is what is laughable! Have we not all seen strong women in our own lives completely fall for a guy, give a dead beat relationship their all and then suddenly wake-up to the realization that the guy and relationship is not what they hoped/thought it was?! It is very possible to see a guy as your "prince" in one day and have the scales fall of your eyes the next and see that he truly is your "monster."
Very Possible!!!

This has happened to a TV person, and all of a sudden everyone is on their judgemental trip, acting as if they've never been there. As if they've never played the fool, or known anyone whose played the fool, over a guy. Someone has a normal human reaction to unexpected heartbreak, and she is playing the victim, is playing the woman scorned? Ish!!! Clare has moved on, JP and Nikki have moved on.

Promote what you Love Instead of Bashing what you Hate!

And they come on a tv show competing with 24 other people. Come into the show recognizing the signs, if they are into you or not, because they are there. Then you can save yourself a lot of heartache and won't get to the end crying, oh you're not the man I thought you were. This show has been around too long for any to not know how it works.

[umngirl]

Was it implied by Clare that she slept with Juan Pablo? I didn't watch the Season but now I'm curious about what JP said to her that she couldn't repeat.

"I loved f**king you" is the statement she didn't want to repeat, but she did in the heat of the moment after her rejection. Pretty much implies they slept together. And I for one have no difficult believing they slept together and that he said that.

I hear the fiddle. lol

Thanks for insulting my intelligence by saying I'm being played like a fiddle. Really, thank you.

[quietpal]

I am so tired with oceangate:

1) Chelsie in an interview said that JuanPa wanted Nikki from Week 2.  If she knows this I am sure that Clare did also.
2) Clare showed up at his room at 4 am wanting to go to a warm ocean.  He went.  Fine.
3) Clare started to act like she own him giving a toast to making love.  Hinting at a sexual relationship.  JuanPa stepped back and said wait a minute this is not right.  
4) He approached her and said that they cannot do that(whatever that is) again because it was not fair to the other girls. But did Clare listen, no she did not care.  So JuanPa came out with his big gun, his daughter.  Everything went to hell in a handbag after that.

For Clare and everyone to place the blame solely on JuanPa is absolutely nuts. IMO of course.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but what is your definition of using a woman if that doesn't qualify? Clare wouldn't have known he already knew based on his behavior on the group date that day. He took her to his pool, was kissing her in those little boats and gave her the GD rose.

Clare knew that she was competing with other women for his "love" on a scripted, televised reality dating show.  They were not in an exclusive relationship by any stretch of the imagination.  Clare is 32 years old, not an innocent pre-teen that was taken advantage of by an older man.  

Clare willingly went into the pool with JP and returned his kisses - willingly.  He rewarded her with the group date rose.  This should have been enough validation for Clare, but it was not.  

What JP did not do was go to Clare's room at 4:00 in the morning.  That was Clare's doing.  It didn't work out the way she expected.

Exactly, FL!

[pbmax]

Was it implied by Clare that she slept with Juan Pablo? I didn't watch the Season but now I'm curious about what JP said to her that she couldn't repeat.

"I loved f**king you" is the statement she didn't want to repeat, but she did in the heat of the moment after her rejection. Pretty much implies they slept together. And I for one have no difficult believing they slept together and that he said that.

I hear the fiddle. lol

Thanks for insulting my intelligence by saying I'm being played like a fiddle. Really, thank you.

Those are your words not mine.

[LibbyBell]

I just posted this in the Social Media-Twitter thread but it is basically the same conversation so I wanted to add it here:

As M & J say, they drop the cameraman off so that he can film the helicopter landing BUT would they have taken off their microphones? I don't believe so-- those packs are many times laced up and taped in place; once they are in place, they stay in place until they are removed for the night. As I was re-watching the LCDs, during the night time portion Clare asks Juan Pablo whether he knows her well enough to make the choice. He goes and an talks blah, blah, blah, etc... and then Clare stops him and says-- That's what I need to know, I don't need you to tell me "I like kissing, I like kissing" I need to know other things. IMO, IF he had said I like f-ing you, she would have said it here instead of "I like kissing". IF the statement was so offensive to her, she definitely would have added it to the conversation that she was having with Juan Pablo; no way she would have left it out. Absent plausible video or audio of Juan Pablo actually saying this-- I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is innocent until proven guilty and we ALL know that TPTB can do some pretty good editing; they've done it in the past and I don't doubt that they will continue to do it until they are made to stop. I know some will disagree, I readily admit that this is IMO.

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