Re: * No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 FINALE (LCD/MTP/FRC) Discussion- Thread #2

[Sable]

I dont know about y'all but this was my best season of the Bachelor EVER!
Its realistic, flawed, honest and ended with two people who actually get each other.
Not saying everything JP did was right but isnt that waht being human is about? Its real, we all live in a world where we sometimes do wrong, say wrong and act wrong. We have been sold this fairytale ending for years and years and only got 3 lucky ones from a possible.....20/ 25 endings. Not everyone is expressive or quock to fall in love. Some take their time. It was Juan Pablos moment and he navigated it as best as he could. Remained open( unlike pasts who claimed to) and went with th girl best suited to him.
Chris Harrison isnt a god that cant be spoken back at, I am especially happy JP didnt pander to the production's crap.
Sean and catherine, bless them, have their asses owned for now. They surely cant afford to bite the hands that feeds them.

I wish JP and Nikki nothing but the best and as nikki said, time will tell. Cant see them doing any worse than the many in love couples that have graced our screens from the bachelor land.

I disagree. I have a cousin with aspergers that can listen and communicate better than pabs. CH told him all of us went on this journey with him and he responded with, "It doesn't matter." That is basically how he has responded to anyone's disappointment or hurt all season. IT DOESN"T MATTER! He can't even acknowledge it. Think about what he said to Clare in the helicopter, yet still no regret? We know he is capable of this, so why would Nikki be immune from it? It's just a matter of time before he treats Nikki with the same disrespect. I would say he is a narcissist, but I think he is just really really dumb- "simple" as his mom said. It has nothing to do with the him not proposing or saying he loves her yet. For anyone, celebrating Nikki and paps, would you want your daughter with him? I bet Nikki's parents are mortified by it all.

  And I completely believe he said that to Clare.  

I believe he said that to Clare too.  As far as JP and how he treats women, guess we have to wait to see what comes out in the wash.  Think his colors will show sooner or later with Nikki too.

I agree with all of this. We've talked alot about how tptb edits a season and how they can either idolize or vilify their lead. But maybe what they do is take the dominant characteristics that they witness from yards and yards of film and allow that to form the story of their lead.

I agree w/all of this as well. ATFR was a show that was not edited, so Juan Pablo had his chance to show the general public that he was not that guy the TPTB were editing him be. And what does he do? He comes out and shows everybody he really is that guy and much worse, too! He really came across like a real jerk with how badly he wanted to stick it to TPTB above all else. I really agree w/the poster who said that Nikki's parents have to be mortified about this whole thing. I know her brother had a supportive tweet about her and Juan Pablo the day ATFR aired, but I have not seen any supporting statements from her parents. As the mother of a young adult daughter, I would be extremely unhappy if my daughter was in Nikki's position.

[Guest]

Seems her family have no problems with her and JPG at all....their daughter looks happily in love and chose to be done with a reality tv rather than feed them ammunition to use against them in future.

[nd4reality]

Shame on Clare if he said that to her and she was still willing to continue on the journey with him. For her to still be all loved up and talk about a song on their wedding day speaks volumes about her. He treated the women with respect and kissed a few, he even had to be bamboozled into kissing Renee because she wouldn't let it go about him kissing her.
The women who are crying foul are the ones who wanted time with him, but he didn't budge and was not willing to act it out by being a sleaze and kissing all or making empty promises.
Clare played a victim during ocean-gate, if you were that offended you should have left!!!
Nothing he said could have chased Clare away, and maybe he did say "that" ( I doubt it though) so she could up and leave like Andi did. afterall he did not like hurting people byu saying goodbye. Clare pushed the physical and then cried wolf when she got it back from him.
NIkki and Charlene if she had stayed were always going to be his F2. They were the only 2 people he chased in the show.
And lets not forget how compassionate he was with the women, giving them all time to talk( as they all said), and sad when he hurt them. A man who can manage to have a fantastic relationship with the mother of his child that she is happy to be around his family is a good man in my books!

Great post.

Clare cried wolf once too many times. She played victim to the hilt. Sadly there are many women out there that don't own to their own responsibility in relationships. Just because he is a guy he is being dragged through the mud.

[Alanna]

I do think JPG said that effing line to Clare but I don't think he was being rude intentionally, it's his sense of humor and he's said similar things to Nikki, wearing thongs for him and I recall another convo about her underwear too unless I'm crazy and making it up, which is possible too. Nikki gets him and laughs and isn't offended so it doesn't come across as shocking as it did when he said it to Clare.

[Iam4UGA]

The whole "some women deserve it" in terms of being treated as sex objects only is a very bad path to travel down IMO. JPG slut shamed Clare over and over and it's a testament to what a chauvinist he is and how he views women. It's very reminiscent of Brad treating Chantal and Ashley (until she showed her sharp little teeth and told him off) as these naughty girls to hook up with and the pedestal was reserved for Emily. It's seriously messed up. I know it is probably part of JPG's culture and maybe Nikki is okay with it, but his treatment of Clare says much more about him than her.

True. I guess one can easily forget who was taking her to the first date which required a bikini, asking her to sneak around in the pool before the ocean gate, making the Vietnam GD as 1-1 date ( and stole some besitos), breaking his own rule for not kissing anyone in SK by those choc-flavored besitos, playing that cheesy song over and over ( maybe he views  Clare as his best lover?)..the list goes on.... And ultimately  the infamous banter: "just tell me you love me"... " umm IDK you... But I love effing you".. . What a warm-hearted compliment. Hands down, What a well-rounded gentleman!! .
(For those who curio why there was no audio or cameraman around , can check out Jason-Molly podcast part 1 for details ).

ItA with both of these!   

[quietpal]

The whole "some women deserve it" in terms of being treated as sex objects only is a very bad path to travel down IMO. JPG slut shamed Clare over and over and it's a testament to what a chauvinist he is and how he views women. It's very reminiscent of Brad treating Chantal and Ashley (until she showed her sharp little teeth and told him off) as these naughty girls to hook up with and the pedestal was reserved for Emily. It's seriously messed up. I know it is probably part of JPG's culture and maybe Nikki is okay with it, but his treatment of Clare says much more about him than her.

True. I guess one can easily forget who was taking her to the first date which required a bikini, asking her to sneak around in the pool before the ocean gate, making the Vietnam GD as 1-1 date ( and stole some besitos), breaking his own rule for not kissing anyone in SK by those choc-flavored besitos, playing that cheesy song over and over ( maybe he views  Clare as his best lover?)..the list goes on.... And ultimately  the infamous banter: "just tell me you love me"... " umm IDK you... But I love effing you".. . What a warm-hearted compliment. Hands down, What a well-rounded gentleman!! .
(For those who curio why there was no audio or cameraman around , can check out Jason-Molly podcast part 1 for details ).

ItA with both of these!    

Just remember there were two people involved here. Both were responsible for their actions.

[Guest]

The whole "some women deserve it" in terms of being treated as sex objects only is a very bad path to travel down IMO. JPG slut shamed Clare over and over and it's a testament to what a chauvinist he is and how he views women. It's very reminiscent of Brad treating Chantal and Ashley (until she showed her sharp little teeth and told him off) as these naughty girls to hook up with and the pedestal was reserved for Emily. It's seriously messed up. I know it is probably part of JPG's culture and maybe Nikki is okay with it, but his treatment of Clare says much more about him than her.

  No matter what, JP is accountable for his own actions and intentions. We have seen men on this show turn down the women/not give roses to those who don't align with their values. He clearly will deceive and use a woman given the opportunity. It is so ingrained in him that he will even do it on television. He seems like the type that will have mistresses on the side and tell his wife that it is her fault he has them!

[quietpal]

Great post.

Clare cried wolf once too many times. She played victim to the hilt. Sadly there are many women out there that don't own to their own responsibility in relationships. Just because he is a guy he is being dragged through the mud.

Yep, that's the way I see it. I'm not defending anyone's actions. I'm simply stating that both people played a part in this.

[FLChica]

In the real world, Juan Pablo took full responsibility for his actions when Carla became pregnant soon after they started dating. Theirs wasn't a long term established relationship, but JP didn't walk away. They now seem to co-parent Camilla quite well.

[Guest]

The whole "some women deserve it" in terms of being treated as sex objects only is a very bad path to travel down IMO. JPG slut shamed Clare over and over and it's a testament to what a chauvinist he is and how he views women. It's very reminiscent of Brad treating Chantal and Ashley (until she showed her sharp little teeth and told him off) as these naughty girls to hook up with and the pedestal was reserved for Emily. It's seriously messed up. I know it is probably part of JPG's culture and maybe Nikki is okay with it, but his treatment of Clare says much more about him than her.

True. I guess one can easily forget who was taking her to the first date which required a bikini, asking her to sneak around in the pool before the ocean gate, making the Vietnam GD as 1-1 date ( and stole some besitos), breaking his own rule for not kissing anyone in SK by those choc-flavored besitos, playing that cheesy song over and over ( maybe he views  Clare as his best lover?)..the list goes on.... And ultimately  the infamous banter: "just tell me you love me"... " umm IDK you... But I love effing you".. . What a warm-hearted compliment. Hands down, What a well-rounded gentleman!! .
(For those who curio why there was no audio or cameraman around , can check out Jason-Molly podcast part 1 for details ).

ItA with both of these!    

Every girl on the Bachelor will eventually wear a bikini. I know JuanB did not plan the date, only chose who to go with. He went on Bikini dates with many more. lets be honest here...Clare was all about the physical. she knew it, played it and couldn't handle it when it was all she got back.
He did the whole Besitos thing with Andi, and when Andi felt insulted she left. Clare shpuld have done the same. She got overly confident and felt entitled and when it did not go her way, she became a meanie.
The whole woman scorned act at the end was laughable. you were ready to marry him a minute ago and suddenly you wouldn't choose him to father your kids.   

[Guest]

Great post.

Clare cried wolf once too many times. She played victim to the hilt. Sadly there are many women out there that don't own to their own responsibility in relationships. Just because he is a guy he is being dragged through the mud.

Yep, that's the way I see it. I'm not defending anyone's actions. I'm simply stating that both people played a part in this.

What part did Clare play? Her intention and hope was to fall in love. Should she have left? Yes. Should she have chased him? No. But there were no bad intentions on her part, more like misguided. You can criticize Clare for certain things AND still hold pabs responsible for his own actions and responses in that situation. Replace Jpabs with an upstanding guy and consider how the outcome would have been different.

@see2love.. we haven't heard from Nikki's parents. How do you know they are fine with it? Too bad they weren't at the ATFR. It would have been great to have her parent's reactions in a small frame throughout!!  :shocked!:

[Guest]

In the real world, Juan Pablo took full responsibility for his actions when Carla became pregnant soon after they started dating.  Theirs wasn't a long term established relationship, but JP didn't walk away.  They now seem to co-parent Camilla quite well.

We don't really even know that. There are various reports. One that she sued him for back child support, another that she went along with the show so that he would have some money. He seemed willing to move away from Miami/Camilla. For me, the verdict was never in that he was a good father. He himself stated that he is not with Carla because she "talked back" to him. I should go now because (like his own parents) I have nothing nice to say.

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