*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 FINALE (LCD/MTP/FRC) Discussions

notarose wrote:A melting heart vs a beating one ... tough call

Great summary. To respond to 4 health as well..
ITA those are 2 main storyline this season in a nutshell.

Im dreading of what kind of 'storm' the F2 is going to put on JP at the finale!lol. Poor guy. He can do No right either way..

murasaki1393 wrote:

notarose wrote:A melting heart vs a beating one ... tough call

Great summary. To respond to 4 health as well..
ITA those are 2 main storyline this season in a nutshell.

Im dreading of what kind of 'storm' the F2 are going to put on JP at the finale!lol. Poor guy. He can do No right either way..

Unfortunately for him, that seems to be the way this season is going.

Aunties_Love wrote:

4health wrote:

murasaki1393 wrote:NIKKI's BOMB #2. HEART BEAT THEME

bringing over post from SC thread

4health wrote:So okay to add to the discussion….go back and watch Nikki and JP's FD beach conversation….JP is talking about her dad's comment 100% and right when JP says you're not 100% a heart beat in the backgrounds starts and then it ends when Nikki's "I pull back".   JMO but this ties this season back to Nikki's limo entrance and the beating of her heart and how nervous she is.   What does this little editing mean? I don't know but someone had to add it this scene.    Since I edit videos (for fun) I ask myself why would I put a extra track of a heart beat (start and finish) exactly at that spot in this particular scene.  My thought is to highlight her nerves and bring attention to her nerves….that she isn't as confident as she seems and she should be nervous….or that JP will not be 100% sure.  Any takers to add to the speculation?

Good catch!!..thanks 4 pointing this interesting point, 4 health! (u must have a stethoscope, dont you?   )

check the beginning of the heartbeat sound from 3:35



and here up to 0: 22



i personally found its really interesting that the editor seems to build a brand new storyline for Nikki from HTD. JP talk with Dad to begin with, about 100% sure before proposing, then they dig deeper on this topic during FD..so..i expect a climax on LCD and MTP and then a resolution at FRC. whether she is the F1/F2..she now has an obstacle to overcome, with Assurance as the keyword. IMO.
it is way more interesting to note that-- as pointed by 4health-- this storyline (is she sure?   is he sure? --for a proposal) translated perfectly in a 'heartbeat" theme ...just as Nikki's entrance.

I saw that you responded to my post….I like your thoughts….what my thoughts were at first is main production is really playing with the heart theme this time.  Clare that has JP melting her heart and then a heart beat for Nikki and her nerves.   So I ask which is the true storyline….there has to be a theme to the story and a distraction to the story.   JP might have made this a tough time for tptb to keep the story going.  So which is the strongest story they are telling?  

Clare and her melting heart or Nikki and her heart of nerves.    Nikki's story started from night one limo introduction.  Clare's was the first 1:1 date…..I find it interesting that Clare's has been constant and showing JP melting her heart and Nikki's didn't really start until HTD….she has been confident through out and not even nervous meeting the family….but since HTD she becomes nervous because of her dad's comment to JP.   In other seasons many people say that HTD is a turning point for most F1 but I don't think it is a turning point but a confirmation that everything moves forward.  Just some things to think about and would love to hear any thoughts.

So, in essence because Clare's movement is still going and Nikki's isn't, then theologically that would mean that Clare is F1.

I don't know….I can see it both ways (Clare & Nikki) I just don't know which is the strongest or the F1 for sure. 100% ()

Has it been Clare from the start and they needed something for the distraction (Drama girl) with most of the girls with Nikki (negativity) and so they had to build someone to be F2 and distract from the strong connection JP has with Clare OR  He has been smitten with Nikki from the beginning and Clare is the steady distraction of a true love story being developed and growing with Nikki.   I have been fooled by the edit before so this won't be the first time.  I will go down on record that I prefer the JP with Clare story and interactions then with Nikki.   He is more fun loving, goofy and natural with Clare and that is the connection I enjoy.  But, maybe I have fallen to the tptb trap of that distraction storyline and missing the true love story happening with Nikki.   This season is the first season that I can actually see both sides.   I truly enjoy reading everyones point of view.

4health wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:

4health wrote:

murasaki1393 wrote:NIKKI's BOMB #2. HEART BEAT THEME

bringing over post from SC thread

4health wrote:So okay to add to the discussion….go back and watch Nikki and JP's FD beach conversation….JP is talking about her dad's comment 100% and right when JP says you're not 100% a heart beat in the backgrounds starts and then it ends when Nikki's "I pull back".   JMO but this ties this season back to Nikki's limo entrance and the beating of her heart and how nervous she is.   What does this little editing mean? I don't know but someone had to add it this scene.    Since I edit videos (for fun) I ask myself why would I put a extra track of a heart beat (start and finish) exactly at that spot in this particular scene.  My thought is to highlight her nerves and bring attention to her nerves….that she isn't as confident as she seems and she should be nervous….or that JP will not be 100% sure.  Any takers to add to the speculation?

Good catch!!..thanks 4 pointing this interesting point, 4 health! (u must have a stethoscope, dont you?   )

check the beginning of the heartbeat sound from 3:35



and here up to 0: 22



i personally found its really interesting that the editor seems to build a brand new storyline for Nikki from HTD. JP talk with Dad to begin with, about 100% sure before proposing, then they dig deeper on this topic during FD..so..i expect a climax on LCD and MTP and then a resolution at FRC. whether she is the F1/F2..she now has an obstacle to overcome, with Assurance as the keyword. IMO.
it is way more interesting to note that-- as pointed by 4health-- this storyline (is she sure?   is he sure? --for a proposal) translated perfectly in a 'heartbeat" theme ...just as Nikki's entrance.

I saw that you responded to my post….I like your thoughts….what my thoughts were at first is main production is really playing with the heart theme this time.  Clare that has JP melting her heart and then a heart beat for Nikki and her nerves.   So I ask which is the true storyline….there has to be a theme to the story and a distraction to the story.   JP might have made this a tough time for tptb to keep the story going.  So which is the strongest story they are telling?  

Clare and her melting heart or Nikki and her heart of nerves.    Nikki's story started from night one limo introduction.  Clare's was the first 1:1 date…..I find it interesting that Clare's has been constant and showing JP melting her heart and Nikki's didn't really start until HTD….she has been confident through out and not even nervous meeting the family….but since HTD she becomes nervous because of her dad's comment to JP.   In other seasons many people say that HTD is a turning point for most F1 but I don't think it is a turning point but a confirmation that everything moves forward.  Just some things to think about and would love to hear any thoughts.

So, in essence because Clare's movement is still going and Nikki's isn't, then theologically that would mean that Clare is F1.

I don't know….I can see it both ways (Clare & Nikki) I just don't know which is the strongest or the F1 for sure. 100% ()

Has it been Clare from the start and they needed something for the distraction (Drama girl) with most of the girls with Nikki (negativity) and so they had to build someone to be F2 and distract from the strong connection JP has with Clare OR  He has been smitten with Nikki from the beginning and Clare is the steady distraction of a true love story being developed and growing with Nikki.   I have been fooled by the edit before so this won't be the first time.  I will go down on record that I prefer the JP with Clare story and interactions then with Nikki.   He is more fun loving, goofy and natural with Clare and that is the connection I enjoy.  But, maybe I have fallen to the tptb trap of that distraction storyline and missing the true love story happening with Nikki.   This season is the first season that I can actually see both sides.   I truly enjoy reading everyones point of view.

i also enjoy your take on the storyline, 4 health. I agree with you. I can easily see Clare as the F1--it is my `initial` prediction actually based on edit findings --had i NOT pay much attention to the after-fact evidences -- blog, tweets, IG and other socmedia release, since the latter pointing out to Nikki. To this point, i still stick to my opinion that Clare got the more complete, bold, problematic storyline than Nikki. I agree that Nikki`s storyline had emerged from HTD. Now, had i also think JP serves MF as his `puppet`, i can easily assume that all of the after-fact evidences is allegedly driven by TPTB to intentionally　mislead us. However, as some folks suggests, he seems acts as their first uncooperative, controversial lead. So..to me, that factor opening the door of endless possibilities of deviation in The Machine`s `common/scripted practices` have been done in the past seasons. JMHO

soo....the good news is, i think we are in for the `full of surprise` finale this time..OR Not..  .LOL...

murasaki1393 wrote:

notarose wrote:A melting heart vs a beating one ... tough call

Great summary. To respond to 4 health as well..
ITA those are 2 main storyline this season in a nutshell.

Im dreading of what kind of 'storm' the F2 are going to put on JP at the finale!lol. Poor guy. He can do No right either way..

I have to admit I have read the spoilers but I always try to come to my own conclusions. (I picked Chris for Des-that rolling in the ocean scene sucked me in)
I don't see that this has been discussed, but in the past, one of the indicators of the F1 is the price of the FS. Clare's hotel is definitely much more expensive than Nikki's.

I think one of the problems with this season is that JP2 really isn't in it to find love. He's in it to have fun, see the world, date pretty girls (I Liiike them) and generally live life. He is also Latin, I do not think we can put our American expectations on him. His culture is not the same as ours. The ways to interact with women are different than we might expect.

All in all I just don't know who his choice is. Could this be because he really doesn't want to make a choice and therefore he doesn't? I know the previews with him closing the ringbox and with the little crabs scurrying back to the ocean may be to distract and confuse us but maybe they are there to tell us he picks no one.

murasaki1393 wrote:im having a field day!!   

NIKKI's BOMB #3. HONEST BUT NOT NICE--EZZZ OKAY!!   

check again the vid



Nikk's VO ifrom 2: 03 to 2:43

here she make sure we acknowledge that she values honesty and she'd prefer strong person over a nice person.

to me, this is an obvious 'filler' VO serving as a set up/prolog for the upcoming Andi/JP saga. I cant help but think while Andi said there is a difference between being honest and being 'a$$h*le', her BFF clearly mentioned to us that she doesnt mind being with a not so 'nice' guy, as long as the guy is an honest and strong person.

just throwing my 2 cents. .... :Smiley:

i must say, while my puzzle piece is complete last season with the perfect match of SCs+Storyline+Edit+VO-PI  and post-show 'evidences'... i find a gap between the 2 fields in this season. I agree with reasoning perhaps its due to their first rebellion lead. Hence, the wonky editing up to Miami. I get the feeling TPTB are not fond of his F1 either. Perhaps bc she is also a strong, aka rebel person?   

ps : hey JBF..maybe you can digging more on this..and the heartbeat VOs and PIs...perhaps it will convince you in full sway to Nikki F1? LOL

I haven't read all of the posts here THOROUGHLY. Is it my imagination or is this the SECOND Nikki date in which he discusses Clare? Not only that, but "I got to see Clare in a bikini all day. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!" (Previously in Vietnam, he said "Last night I had a great night with Clare. She’s sexy. She’s got something that I like and I’ll be thinking a LOT about her… but today’s a new day. I can’t wait to see Nikki.")

OK. OK. He also mentions that things get better and better when he "hangs out with Andi" too. That reminds me of Des starting Brooks aborted fantasy date by saying Drew is so sweet and it is the little things Chris does that makes her happy (cue shot of her pulling her short shorts over her itty bitty panties). I think we get the point that Clare didn't just "talk" in her overnight.

Regarding Nikki wanting a "strong" person over a "nice" person, perhaps she needs a male version of Andi, who certainly was strong enough to castrate Juan on national TV. (The editor who inserted a praying mantis feasting on a lizard during that battle deserves an Emmy Award.) Regardless how sweet Andi will be if chosen as Bachelorette, I will forever remember her as the attorney who bit Juan's head off over a casual remark about an overnight with Clare and will fully expect her to be quite the Deanna with all of her Grahams.

The "100% sure" can work either way. Juan is not. Nikki is not. Regardless how upset Nikki may get in the finale if she is NOT the one, she should remember that. She should also remember what she said in episode #1... she doesn't just want to be head-over-heels in love for two weeks, but "forever". She keeps acting uncertain if "forever" is with Juan in her PI sessions, especially during the hometown.

Regarding all of the business about the heartbeats. What was it that her arch rival Clare said in hometown? Something about marrying Juan "in a heartbeat" or something? They dubbed heartbeats during Des/Brooks' Antigua Boo-hoo and you know fully well that the microphones were not picking them up.

She sure keeps talking about "getting hurt" a lot on her dates. She said that was her biggest fear back in the soccer stadium. (cf. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ) Juan is all about getting these ladies over their fears.

I re-watched Part 2 and what startled me was this scene: They enter the waves holding hands at first, then he leaps ahead of her and turns around humorously before it dawns on him that she may have slipped and he has go back to pick her up. HUGE difference from his nighttime fun with Clare in Vietnam.

JBF wrote:

murasaki1393 wrote:im having a field day!!   

NIKKI's BOMB #3. HONEST BUT NOT NICE--EZZZ OKAY!!   

check again the vid



Nikk's VO ifrom 2: 03 to 2:43

here she make sure we acknowledge that she values honesty and she'd prefer strong person over a nice person.

to me, this is an obvious 'filler' VO serving as a set up/prolog for the upcoming Andi/JP saga. I cant help but think while Andi said there is a difference between being honest and being 'a$$h*le', her BFF clearly mentioned to us that she doesnt mind being with a not so 'nice' guy, as long as the guy is an honest and strong person.

just throwing my 2 cents. .... :Smiley:

i must say, while my puzzle piece is complete last season with the perfect match of SCs+Storyline+Edit+VO-PI  and post-show 'evidences'... i find a gap between the 2 fields in this season. I agree with reasoning perhaps its due to their first rebellion lead. Hence, the wonky editing up to Miami. I get the feeling TPTB are not fond of his F1 either. Perhaps bc she is also a strong, aka rebel person?   

ps : hey JBF..maybe you can digging more on this..and the heartbeat VOs and PIs...perhaps it will convince you in full sway to Nikki F1? LOL

I haven't read all of the posts here THOROUGHLY. Is it my imagination or is this the SECOND Nikki date in which he discusses Clare? Not only that, but "I got to see Clare in a bikini all day. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!" (Previously in Vietnam, he said "Last night I had a great night with Clare. She’s sexy. She’s got something that I like and I’ll be thinking a LOT about her… but today’s a new day. I can’t wait to see Nikki.")

OK. OK. He also mentions that things get better and better when he "hangs out with Andi" too. That reminds me of Des starting Brooks aborted fantasy date by saying Drew is so sweet and it is the little things Chris does that makes her happy (cue shot of her pulling her short shorts over her itty bitty panties). I think we get the point that Clare didn't just "talk" in her overnight.

Regarding Nikki wanting a "strong" person over a "nice" person, perhaps she needs a male version of Andi, who certainly was strong enough to castrate Juan on national TV. (The editor who inserted a praying mantis feasting on a lizard during that battle deserves an Emmy Award.) Regardless how sweet Andi will be if chosen as Bachelorette, I will forever remember her as the attorney who bit Juan's head off over a casual remark about an overnight with Clare and will fully expect her to be quite the Deanna with all of her Grahams.

The "100% sure" can work either way. Juan is not. Nikki is not. Regardless how upset Nikki may get in the finale if she is NOT the one, she should remember that. She should also remember what she said in episode #1... she doesn't just want to be head-over-heels in love for two weeks, but "forever". She keeps acting uncertain if "forever" is with Juan in her PI sessions, especially during the hometown.

Regarding all of the business about the heartbeats. What was it that her arch rival Clare said in hometown? Something about marrying Juan "in a heartbeat" or something? They dubbed heartbeats during Des/Brooks' Antigua Boo-hoo and you know fully well that the microphones were not picking them up.

She sure keeps talking about "getting hurt" a lot on her dates. She said that was her biggest fear back in the soccer stadium. (cf. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ) Juan is all about getting these ladies over their fears.

I re-watched Part 2 and what startled me was this scene: They enter the waves holding hands at first, then he leaps ahead of her and turns around humorously before it dawns on him that she may have slipped and he has go back to pick her up. HUGE difference from his nighttime fun with Clare in Vietnam.

OK..first i wanna say, im glad that you finally take my Nikki`s bait..LOL..  

second, thank you again for today`s good laugh on the first bolded   

to your second bolded, i think you have missed what JPab said in his blog : Nikki is actually afraid of waves, and he thinks its `kinda cute`..  .

as for me, effected by Litta`s mood  ,i guess i am in a full swing mode between Nikki and Clare now    due to Vietnamese tides..LOL...I just want March 10th is here, like, now..  

mtnlvr55 wrote:

murasaki1393 wrote:

notarose wrote:A melting heart vs a beating one ... tough call

Great summary. To respond to 4 health as well..
ITA those are 2 main storyline this season in a nutshell.

Im dreading of what kind of 'storm' the F2 are going to put on JP at the finale!. Poor guy. He can do No right either way..

I have to admit I have read the spoilers but I always try to come to my own conclusions. (I picked Chris for Des-that rolling in the ocean scene sucked me in)
I don't see that this has been discussed, but in the past, one of the indicators of the F1 is the price of the FS. Clare's hotel is definitely much more expensive than Nikki's.

I think one of the problems with this season is that JP2 really isn't in it to find love. He's in it to have fun, see the world, date pretty girls (I Liiike them) and generally live life. He is also Latin, I do not think we can put our American expectations on him. His culture is not the same as ours. The ways to interact with women are different than we might expect.

All in all I just don't know who his choice is. Could this be because he really doesn't want to make a choice and therefore he doesn't? I know the previews with him closing the ringbox and with the little crabs scurrying back to the ocean may be to distract and confuse us but maybe they are there to tell us he picks no one.

Yeah, i think im partially agree with you. I havent followed his private life, and digging more on him, until now..so i reserve my opinion about his motives going to this show. BUT if the bolded turned out to be true, (mix it with the fact that he actually came from different culture) yeah, i think the joke is on us, for having high expectation of good romance, let alone true love from his journey. I definitely think the recent `successes`of this silly franchise  -- Jash and Sean`s wedding, Chres upcoming wedding-- clouding our opinion and therefore expectation about the show.We forgot that prior to Sean, we have had disastrous Bach season like Benny Boy and Jake the Fake  

So JP's tweet of song lyrics? Who knows why people do what they do, but if the song is any indication to his mood or the place he is in emotionally, I would say, IF he chose someone to date at the end, there is trouble in paradise....not necessarily with him being unsure but the person he chose....just a thought

murasaki1393 wrote:OK..first i wanna say, im glad that you finally take my Nikki`s bait..LOL..

second, thank you again for today`s  good laugh on the first bolded  

to your second bolded, i think you have missed what JPab said in his blog : Nikki is actually afraid of waves, and he thinks its `kinda cute`.. .

Yeah... "kinda cute".

OK... Let's Be As Fair As Possible. Is there any comparison with body language here?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(off topic... I just love how Andi keeps complaining... and complaining about the rose and "not getting something", not Juan.)


You can "swing" all you want. I'm staying put in Sacramento. I mean... this only a silly TV show. Who cares if some people are wrong at the end of this. Everybody will survive. Nobody is gambling their hard earned fortune at the casino.

Clueless....I'm clueless what lyrics did he tweet?

JBF wrote:

murasaki1393 wrote:OK..first i wanna say, im glad that you finally take my Nikki`s bait..LOL..

second, thank you again for today`s  good laugh on the first bolded  

to your second bolded, i think you have missed what JPab said in his blog : Nikki is actually afraid of waves, and he thinks its `kinda cute`.. .

Yeah... "kinda cute".

OK... Let's Be As Fair As Possible. Is there any comparison with body language here?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(off topic... I just love how Andi keeps complaining... and complaining about the rose and "not getting something", not Juan.)


You can "swing" all you want. I'm staying put in Sacramento. I mean... this only a silly TV show. Who cares if some people are wrong at the end of this. Everybody will survive. Nobody is gambling their hard earned fortune at the casino.

still, im curio, what`s your take on the after fact socmed --IG,TW,BLogs, etc--clues?..all is leaning more to Nikki IMO (ya know im loyal to a fault to People Blog) . THIS is a BIG missing piece of the Clare`s puzzle to me. I know you more or less was `into` twitter clues last season, that you found many suspicious Nate`s tweets yourself to back up your edit analysis   . I guess same can be said for this season with Rodolfo`s  tweets (his cousin), not to mention the  4 x deleted scenes posted by Pablo Papi himself.