*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 Edit Discussions #2

Mirzam wrote:

4health wrote:

nonnie wrote:

4health wrote:I don't know where to post this but since Mr. Write did the boxes on the walkway….(I wish I could do it) but I believe that the SC's we have the ladies with the boat….it is one boat.  You see the scratches on the right hand side of the second letter K on both ladies boats…plus the scuff markings on the front tip of the boat….so it looks like one boat was used to bring Clare and then bring Nikki…..so I truly do believe that it was cutting it close in the time frame but just wanted to mention it….as a boat owner for over 25 years even a mile in water takes time especially in the ocean, especially docking (or no true dock) or getting off a boat with waves.  Just a crazy time frame I believe….but hey we shall see

Nikki's boat number is S 077 1 and Clare's is SL 77 1.

Nonnie take a look again on Clare's boat yes SL and then black boxes block it out.....on Nikki's boat the  S then it is blocked out and other numbers.....the scratches of scuffs are the same ....I am in a iPad and can enlarge the images and you will notice it plain and simple.   Plus the driver is the same......I can't screenshot it right now but I will....JMO

The boat ride is just a few minutes, so enough time for F2 to get to the awaiting limo before the F1 arrives and boards the boat, according to Mr Write.

There is one thing that I question, there is a boat in the background in that pic of Clare arriving on a boat...could it be the F2 leaving, production, or ??

4health wrote:

glazedover wrote:

4health wrote:I have to came here and state that after watching the new video that was release…(which I figured would be JP and Nikki) I truly don't want either one of these ladies to be the F1….Juan Pablo can go back to Venezuela and leave the American women alone.  UGH!….I don't care which video has the deepest connection or JP is different here and there ….. it is just wrong to lead these women on….No wander tptb is driving a train over him….

EVERY season, bachelor and bachelorette alike, except for Ali, the lead leads the F2 on. This is no different. It is the premise of the show. TBTB makes it so.

Yes you are correct…..the last time that it was like this was Andy's season where he said I love you to both Bevin and Tessa but we didn't get videos before the finale we were surprised during the show.   Then the next closest season like this one would be Brad 1.0 JMO.  We haven't had all the bad press, so many girls leaving the show, so many expressing being hurt, tptb showing the lead being rude, parents of the lead talking smack and then this….it is a lot…..so I truly do believe that tptb is exposing Juan Pablo as what he truly is….a$$hole like Nikki expressed….if she is the F1 she probably would still think that after she sees what he shared with Clare…true colors come out in real life

I remember way back when during Meredith's season (Bachelorette #2). She was completely gaga over Ian yet she told Matthew that she'd be honored to get a ring from him. She took a lot of flack and she mumbled something about the show at the ATFR. The worst to me was Andy when he told Bevin he loved her. The f2 pretty much every season is misled and I feel for them. I didn't think this was that bad if Clare's the f2 but we haven't seen the show yet.  

Moving this question over here...

nd4reality wrote:I have honestly never been so confused as to who is the f1 on the last day prior to the FRC.

JP and the editors have done a great job keeping the suspense till the very end.

You won't be satisfied with my response since I will get "windy" again just bringing up various "jigsaw puzzle pieces" up and no Perfect Picture for you. And, besides, maybe The Edit means nothing after all as many claim... it is all about screencap "time" more than anything else. Who knows?

I did think Nikki was a possible #1 when watching the first two episodes, just as I did Brooks while watching the first four of Des' season... then zeroed in on Clare and Chris after re-watching their first 1 on 1 dates. There is always something different about the way the Bachelor/ette discusses that date in PI and voice-over. It has taken a few years to grasp it since some leads weren't as emotionally invested in their seasons. Much of it involves pronoun usage... like "we" and "us" and not just about what is being done on the date.

The hometowns blew Nikki really... really far away from the running for me. I like Tom and Jennifer a lot, but they didn't seem any more "sold" on Nikki/Juan than Hy was on Andi/Juan. On the plus side, Nikki was giggling up a storm, so either she was giggling in LUV (but still couldn't say it to Juan) or she was giggling over her "method" acting. My draw dropped during the FD horseback scene when Nikki says "This is like something you see in a movie. This isn’t real life."

Regardless if people are seeing "IT" between Juan and Clare, these two repeating conversations on HER hometown officially nailed the regardless-what-happens-at-FRC-Clare-is-still-final-one scenario for lil' ol' me:

To two sisters:

You know what… I’m here for that. She’s here and I’m here for a reason. At first, it was more attraction… a physical attraction. And then… um… but now, every day, I get to know her more I’m… hmmm… You know it is how she speaks about your dad and, y’know, I’m like… hooooh… I gotta go like this because every time she talks to me, I put myself in her shoes and I want Camilla one day to say my dad is this this this this and I want a man like my dad to be with me all my life.

To Laura and Lillian, we get the same basic conversation, but it is brought to the next level:

Laura: She’s our baby and we just want, more than anything, for Clare to be happy… and I feel like my two younger sisters don’t have my dad here to say “this is the person I’m interested in spending my life with “ or anything like that… and my dad was such a central part of everything.
Juan: I understand everything perfectly fine and I appreciate you talking to me and telling me because she’d talk to me a lot about your dad and I think that is one of the reasons I am sitting in this chair, right here, because when she talks about her dad and when she says “I want a man like my dad”, I was like… “Am I the man? Am I like her dad? I don’t know, y’know. She told me many stories and that is why I am sitting in this chair, because I’d like to meet all of you and get to know you better. I will know why Clare is the way she is. This is her family, so I understand. I am very family oriented.

... and he does say in the promos "I definitely would rather end up with nobody then not have my daughter be proud of her dad"

This is Code Speak for "I definitely would rather end up with nobody then not have my wife be proud of her husband". With the hometown, Juan slid himself into the role of The Man Like Clare's Dad.

Which brings me to your FAVORITE topic of discussion: Ocean Romp and The Interview. Juan regretted about both the pool invitation and the ocean romp. Clare was confused by his bringing "our daughter" into this because he knew it would be televised on TV. However, Clare did NOT see any of the conversations I posted above from the hometown either. She also didn't hear Lillian's discussion with him of marriage being something you don't play around with.

Juan stated in PI/voice-over (so no telling "when" it was recorded) back in episode #2: "If you had a father who treated you like a princess, you want a man who treats you like a princess… though. Why would you not have that standard? We have high standards. Clare and I definitely have high standards on relationships." The way he is phrasing this, "high standards" are not just about royalty and princesses. The ladies were angry with him on WTA because he said he did not come there to kiss 27 women.

Of course, The Show Must Go On... so he still has to. Let's face it, this is a sleezy show regardless how we slice it.

Whatever it is that upsets Clare in the helicopter gets resolved by the time the Entertainment Weekly "extra" is shot. So I just view it as some sort of temporary curve-ball. She is offended by something he says, but he explains himself later. Or to quote her line in New Zealand: "it is not about what you fight about, but how you handle it."

She is alone crying on her bed, so I'm thinking the sequence could well be:
1. Heli ride
2. Playing of the song
3. Serious talk (he is not good at conflict resolution, as we know.  He avoids and evades, rather than bends or listens)
4. Something still not sitting right for her when she's alone on the bed.

Alternatively ...
1. Heli ride
2. ITMs and crying on her bed
3. Talk with JP
4. Playing of wedding song
5. Happy ending

The latter doesn't feel right to me.

Here's my suggestion:

1. Crass remark by JP getting out of heli ride.
2. JP placates her with some banal excuse, 'EEZ OKAY", and she is okay.
3. Serious talk on couch (she is again fobbed off, and accepts whatever he says).
4. Plays 'wedding song'.
5. He leaves and she cries because she is so happy cos he is going to put a ring on it.
6. Rejected at FRC.

Mirzam wrote:Here's my suggestion:

1. Crass remark by JP getting out of heli ride.
2. JP placates her with some banal excuse, 'EEZ OKAY", and she is okay.
3. Serious talk on couch (she is again fobbed off, and accepts whatever he says).
4. Plays 'wedding song'.
5. He leaves and she cries because she is so happy cos he is going to put a ring on it.
6. Rejected at FRC.

I agree with this (with a possible different #6)

JBF wrote:Moving this question over here...

nd4reality wrote:I have honestly never been so confused as to who is the f1 on the last day prior to the FRC.

JP and the editors have done a great job keeping the suspense till the very end.

You won't be satisfied with my response since I will get "windy" again just bringing up various "jigsaw puzzle pieces" up and no Perfect Picture for you. And, besides, maybe The Edit means nothing after all as many claim... it is all about screencap "time" more than anything else. Who knows?

I did think Nikki was a possible #1 when watching the first two episodes, just as I did Brooks while watching the first four of Des' season... then zeroed in on Clare and Chris after re-watching their first 1 on 1 dates. There is always something different about the way the Bachelor/ette discusses that date in PI and voice-over. It has taken a few years to grasp it since some leads weren't as emotionally invested in their seasons. Much of it involves pronoun usage... like "we" and "us" and not just about what is being done on the date.

The hometowns blew Nikki really... really far away from the running for me. I like Tom and Jennifer a lot, but they didn't seem any more "sold" on Nikki/Juan than Hy was on Andi/Juan. On the plus side, Nikki was giggling up a storm, so either she was giggling in LUV (but still couldn't say it to Juan) or she was giggling over her "method" acting. My draw dropped during the FD horseback scene when Nikki says "This is like something you see in a movie. This isn’t real life."

Regardless if people are seeing "IT" between Juan and Clare, these two repeating conversations on HER hometown officially nailed the regardless-what-happens-at-FRC-Clare-is-still-final-one scenario for lil' ol' me:

To two sisters:

You know what… I’m here for that. She’s here and I’m here for a reason. At first, it was more attraction… a physical attraction. And then… um… but now, every day, I get to know her more I’m… hmmm… You know it is how she speaks about your dad and, y’know, I’m like… hooooh… I gotta go like this because every time she talks to me, I put myself in her shoes and I want Camilla one day to say my dad is this this this this and I want a man like my dad to be with me all my life.

To Laura and Lillian, we get the same basic conversation, but it is brought to the next level:

Laura: She’s our baby and we just want, more than anything, for Clare to be happy… and I feel like my two younger sisters don’t have my dad here to say “this is the person I’m interested in spending my life with “ or anything like that… and my dad was such a central part of everything.
Juan: I understand everything perfectly fine and I appreciate you talking to me and telling me because she’d talk to me a lot about your dad and I think that is one of the reasons I am sitting in this chair, right here, because when she talks about her dad and when she says “I want a man like my dad”, I was like… “Am I the man? Am I like her dad? I don’t know, y’know. She told me many stories and that is why I am sitting in this chair, because I’d like to meet all of you and get to know you better. I will know why Clare is the way she is. This is her family, so I understand. I am very family oriented.

... and he does say in the promos "I definitely would rather end up with nobody then not have my daughter be proud of her dad"

This is Code Speak for "I definitely would rather end up with nobody then not have my wife be proud of her husband". With the hometown, Juan slid himself into the role of The Man Like Clare's Dad.

Which brings me to your FAVORITE topic of discussion: Ocean Romp and The Interview. Juan regretted about both the pool invitation and the ocean romp. Clare was confused by his bringing "our daughter" into this because he knew it would be televised on TV. However, Clare did NOT see any of the conversations I posted above from the hometown either. She also didn't hear Lillian's discussion with him of marriage being something you don't play around with.

Juan stated in PI/voice-over (so no telling "when" it was recorded) back in episode #2: "If you had a father who treated you like a princess, you want a man who treats you like a princess… though. Why would you not have that standard? We have high standards. Clare and I definitely have high standards on relationships." The way he is phrasing this, "high standards" are not just about royalty and princesses. The ladies were angry with him on WTA because he said he did not come there to kiss 27 women.

Of course, The Show Must Go On... so he still has to. Let's face it, this is a sleezy show regardless how we slice it.

Whatever it is that upsets Clare in the helicopter gets resolved by the time the Entertainment Weekly "extra" is shot. So I just view it as some sort of temporary curve-ball. She is offended by something he says, but he explains himself later. Or to quote her line in New Zealand: "it is not about what you fight about, but how you handle it."

Very convincing. Adding to your great analysis, he has no choice but to lead everyone on except his F1 at whatever point he was certain. I also think that one of his final two (and others before) would have picked up signals at the point he decided and have no choice but to play along also as the show must go on. Being fake is just a requirement so to me - no harm no foul as the format of the show dictates it.

My problem is, I don't feel I know enough about what type of woman he wants to feel he will chose one over the other because although I definitely agree that Nikki's dad made it very clear that he wanted no engagement (he was very diplomatic but JP received the message) the possibility of picking either girl still exists to me at this point.

^^ He told her the night before the FRC that she is the only one for him. Seems to be 100% in at the time.

Did he really? Or was it just the song he picked that gave her "reassurance"? Brooks got "I Choose You" by Andy Grammer on his first date and THAT didn't get him to stay.

JBF wrote:Did he really? Or was it just the song he picked that gave her "reassurance"? Brooks got "I Choose You" by Andy Grammer on his first date and THAT didn't get him to stay.

It appears that not only did he choose that particular song, he sung it and recorded it for her. If you listen, you might come to the same conclusion others have, that it is HIM singing the recorded version.

Not sure you can compare the first night and the night before an FRC especially when the lead is singing the words to the F2. That goes for Clare as well.

Mirzam wrote:

JBF wrote:Did he really? Or was it just the song he picked that gave her "reassurance"? Brooks got "I Choose You" by Andy Grammer on his first date and THAT didn't get him to stay.

It appears that not only did he choose that particular song, he sung it and recorded it for her. If you listen, you might come to the same conclusion others have, that it is HIM singing the recorded version.

What song did JP record and perform ? I'm completely lost !