*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 Edit Discussions #2

JBF wrote:

notarose wrote:
I think:
- JP " I want you to smile" is the archeological site from Nikki's date on the way to the rappelling area
- JP "I'm so glad you're here" is the gateway to where Nikki & JP had dinner.  The best shot for comparison would be at the end of their scene when they are infront of the gate with their lanterns on the ground beside them.
   
"I hope he dies" - doesn't quite sound like Victoria but maybe she had her head between her legs and that changed the quality of her voice.  He commented about that in an interview way back.  He just laughed and said it was new to him.  My guess is he would recognize the voice.

TRULY AWESOME transcription  

We can still make corrections above.

We have not heard the King Kong speech, which SOUNDS like Andi... or an early (booted) contestant who resembles her voice. I personally think two lines are spliced together here: King Kong is actually Juan (i.e. some commentary on his attitude after the fantasy date but not used). How could a woman be King Kong beating on his chest? The "her actions" part was heard during Victoria's drama in episode #2. Then again, maybe Victoria is King Kong, only we never saw her sit down with him, let alone "beat" him.

Kelly's "idiot" comment was done in great humor, but it is likely that Clare made one of herself during this process.

Nikki doesn't say anything particularly "romantic" here about either Juan or the locales. She seems pretty wrapped up in the drama... going by THE PROMO, that is. Yes, we have seen her sweet and lovable on her dates. His "I'm so glad you're here" was spoken to Sharleen in an episode, but that shot is from Nikki's date in Vietnam. So, yes, the line applies to her as equally as Sharleen. (He also praised Victoria before eliminating her too, saying he was glad that she came.)

What is most amusing about Nikki's "I have nothing to say to you" with Clare is that she has plenty to say ABOUT Clare. In fairness, Clare is hardly affectionate of Nikki either. Both are seen discussing the other behind her back, although Clare's primary criticism with Danielle in an outtake scene is that Nikki is simply negative all the time (pretty much what others say). Nikki, on the other hand, calls Clare and her family "crazy". Only Andi and Kelly have said the same, mostly with a bit of humor contrasting with Nikki's very sharp directness. The other ladies simply criticize JUAN and his intense focus on Clare in Vietnam. Andi, in particular, was very irked by Juan and Clare together and his casual slip of telling her about Clare overnight was the straw that broke the camel's back in the fantasy suite.

King Kong - scaled buildings with the beautiful starlet who grew to love him
                 More importantly, the 1 time we have seen 3 girls standing on a beach was on the Miami date.  I think it was actually similar ( but daytime) before Renee, Chelsey, and Clare boarded their seaplane.  I'd have to go back & rewatch. There might be a better match with a different trio.

Nikki and no romantic commentary: true.  I think this illustrates she just isn't that fairy tale kinda gal.  Further proof - at the stadium in Miami, JP starts talking about "the moon & the stars" and she's like "nah" but when he states the number of seats and that he's going to kiss her in every one she does respond. I think Clare would have liked the first comment too demonstrating the difference in what each finds romantic.

"I have nothing to say to you" - yep, Nikki's inside voice was much different then her outside voice.  (I like Nikki however the family comment was awful!!!). Clare told Nikki directly or talked to the other girls about Nikki whereas most of Nikki's comments about Clare were to the camera with a few direct to Clare.  I don't recall her ever talking about Clare to any of the girls except when she commented on " things must have gone badly after their talk, they aren't touching/ holding hands".  She is different with JP.  Example: at florist " I'm speechless" but she keeps talking to JP. Her to the camera basically matches up with what she said to him.

Kelly comment - she has said much worse which would have made for a dramatic preview but they chose this statement.  Hmmm. In the scene with Kelly after JP had just asked Nikki if there was basically problems in the house Nikki sat with Kelly and wasn't blaming at that point.  Clare joined them and that might have been ok until Kelly made a comment that Clare then reacted to.  I feel that Kelly was intentionally stirring the pot.  They may have just all sat there talking about nothing much. Also, did we ever see Kelly & JP talking together? And, who is WE in "we have a bomb to drop"?

I still feel " I hope he dies" means something to come but then again it may just be a red herring.

I thought Victoria said, "I hope he dies." Didn't CH and JP discuss it?

I don't remember the discussion of it. That line COULD be Victoria. All we are doing is questioning it here to be sure.

On another note... regarding Nikki and "drama"...

All of the conflict post-Victoria (in which Nikki was the KEY commentator) began with this Korean ditty from Nikki:

Everyone’s afraid to hurt someone’s feelings. Everyone’s afraid to step on someone’s toes. In reality, there are things that I think about people that that person probably might not want to hear it. / I do think there are some people who might be here for more fun than something real. / I’ll say it. I think Kat acts one way with us and the cameras come around and she’s like “who wants some guacamole?" / You can’t get what you want by being fake. It doesn’t happen. It doesn’t work that way… and Kat is so “on” all the time, so over the top, that there is no way that is real.

Ironically Kat didn't say much at all about Nikki apart from being disappointed she got the group rose. Kept her opinions to herself.

Yet Elise is the one who says: "Nikki’s the most negative person in the house and I hope he is not getting the wool pulled over his eyes... but I don’t think he’s getting the full picture." Then (after she gets the rose) "[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Yuck. There’s no way ever that I would have Nikki around my child because of her negativity." She was the one who got Juan to question Nikki about "drama in the house".

All Clare tells Nikki is exactly the same thing Nikki says behind Kat's back (being "Katty"), but with this alteration: instead of one way with the cameras and one way when they are gone, it is one way with the girls and one way with Juan... as if Juan is the camera crew.

Also Clare says directly TO Nikki that she is at least not being "fake" despite being "checked out" in Miami. (Clare's motto: I will always be Clare regardless of what anybody else thinks.)

All season long I feel like I am being "toyed with" regarding Nikki. They (the editors) want us to sense she has That Other Side to her, but aren't revealing it completely because...
1.) She is our next Bachelorette and they are only teasing the "why" she isn't compatible with Juan
2.) She is this season's EDITED F1 Courtney... eventually her "true colors" will come out after Juan spends time with her post-show... or NOT. Those who accuse of others of such things may have two sides to themselves as well. (In other words, the problem isn't Nikki but others accusing her of stuff they are guilty of.)
3.) We will see That Other Side tomorrow night

Speaking of Nikki's line about "Everyone’s afraid to hurt someone’s feelings", Andi attacked Juan for hurting her feelings... even though that whole scene was pretty bizarre. I mean... Andi started the conversation by saying she wasn't feeling it for him then got angry about his too-calm reaction. I think she was expecting him to start crying like he did over every rose ceremony... and even Sharleen's departure (not that Andi saw that until the show aired). (Then again, Andi "barely made it here".)

(I am going to drive everybody MAD here:
Episode #3:
Nikki to Juan: So what was your biggest fear coming into this.
Juan: Hurting people. (Yeah?) Yeah. That’s the biggest one. What was your biggest fear?
Nikki: I think my biggest fear, honestly was me getting hurt. )

Obviously Nikki is being EDITED as the "catty" one, while Andi and Kelly are more the playful "instigators" stirring the pot for their own comic enjoyment. (Sharleen simply glared at Andi when she suggested Clare was "tick tock".)

In the blooper reel shown on WTA, Juan is spooked by a rat and Clare spooked by a bug. Then we get calm and collected Nikki questioning who is killing the cat. Earlier we see Juan and Kelly holding a kitten as he says "It's OK". Yet I wonder if the editors are throwing Nikki under the bus in that blooper reel since she may have said even more about others in PI sessions and private groups in "catty" fashion.

Nikki's commentary of the others began with Victoria, who insisted she is not a dog but a bitch. Nikki even tells Victoria that she is NOT a dog. Clare comments in a PI session that Nikki "acts like a" bitch. Nikki, in turn, says: "Clare is like a dawg. She peed on him first, like she claimed her territory... and the fact is... she claimed some territory that might not be hers." Note too: Molly does her business in the Bachelor pool during the bloopers.

Regardless of the outcome, let's hope Juan has a good veterinarian on hand.

nonnie wrote:

4health wrote:I don't know where to post this but since Mr. Write did the boxes on the walkway….(I wish I could do it) but I believe that the SC's we have the ladies with the boat….it is one boat.  You see the scratches on the right hand side of the second letter K on both ladies boats…plus the scuff markings on the front tip of the boat….so it looks like one boat was used to bring Clare and then bring Nikki…..so I truly do believe that it was cutting it close in the time frame but just wanted to mention it….as a boat owner for over 25 years even a mile in water takes time especially in the ocean, especially docking (or no true dock) or getting off a boat with waves.  Just a crazy time frame I believe….but hey we shall see

Nikki's boat number is S 077 1 and Clare's is SL 77 1.

Nonnie take a look again on Clare's boat yes SL and then black boxes block it out.....on Nikki's boat the S then it is blocked out and other numbers.....the scratches of scuffs are the same ....I am in a iPad and can enlarge the images and you will notice it plain and simple. Plus the driver is the same......I can't screenshot it right now but I will....JMO

4health wrote:

nonnie wrote:

4health wrote:I don't know where to post this but since Mr. Write did the boxes on the walkway….(I wish I could do it) but I believe that the SC's we have the ladies with the boat….it is one boat.  You see the scratches on the right hand side of the second letter K on both ladies boats…plus the scuff markings on the front tip of the boat….so it looks like one boat was used to bring Clare and then bring Nikki…..so I truly do believe that it was cutting it close in the time frame but just wanted to mention it….as a boat owner for over 25 years even a mile in water takes time especially in the ocean, especially docking (or no true dock) or getting off a boat with waves.  Just a crazy time frame I believe….but hey we shall see

Nikki's boat number is S 077 1 and Clare's is SL 77 1.

Nonnie take a look again on Clare's boat yes SL and then black boxes block it out.....on Nikki's boat the  S then it is blocked out and other numbers.....the scratches of scuffs are the same ....I am in a iPad and can enlarge the images and you will notice it plain and simple.   Plus the driver is the same......I can't screenshot it right now but I will....JMO

The boat ride is just a few minutes, so enough time for F2 to get to the awaiting limo before the F1 arrives and boards the boat, according to Mr Write.

JBF wrote:I don't remember the discussion of it. That line COULD be Victoria. All we are doing is questioning it here to be sure.

On another note... regarding Nikki and "drama"...

All of the conflict post-Victoria (in which Nikki was the KEY commentator) began with this Korean ditty from Nikki:

Everyone’s afraid to hurt someone’s feelings. Everyone’s afraid to step on someone’s toes. In reality, there are things that I think about people that that person probably might not want to hear it. / I do think there are some people who might be here for more fun than something real. / I’ll say it. I think Kat acts one way with us and the cameras come around and she’s like “who wants some guacamole?" / You can’t get what you want by being fake. It doesn’t happen. It doesn’t work that way… and Kat is so “on” all the time, so over the top, that there is no way that is real.

Ironically Kat didn't say much at all about Nikki apart from being disappointed she got the group rose. Kept her opinions to herself.

Yet Elise is the one who says: "Nikki’s the most negative person in the house and I hope he is not getting the wool pulled over his eyes... but I don’t think he’s getting the full picture." Then (after she gets the rose) "[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Yuck. There’s no way ever that I would have Nikki around my child because of her negativity." She was the one who got Juan to question Nikki about "drama in the house".

All Clare tells Nikki is exactly the same thing Nikki says behind Kat's back (being "Katty"), but with this alteration: instead of one way with the cameras and one way when they are gone, it is one way with the girls and one way with Juan... as if Juan is the camera crew.

Also Clare says directly TO Nikki that she is at least not being "fake" despite being "checked out" in Miami. (Clare's motto: I will always be Clare regardless of what anybody else thinks.)

All season long I feel like I am being "toyed with" regarding Nikki. They (the editors) want us to sense she has That Other Side to her, but aren't revealing it completely because...
1.) She is our next Bachelorette and they are only teasing the "why" she isn't compatible with Juan
2.) She is this season's EDITED F1 Courtney... eventually her "true colors" will come out after Juan spends time with her post-show... or NOT. Those who accuse of others of such things may have two sides to themselves as well. (In other words, the problem isn't Nikki but others accusing her of stuff they are guilty of.)
3.) We will see That Other Side tomorrow night

Speaking of Nikki's line about "Everyone’s afraid to hurt someone’s feelings", Andi attacked Juan for hurting her feelings... even though that whole scene was pretty bizarre. I mean... Andi started the conversation by saying she wasn't feeling it for him then got angry about his too-calm reaction. I think she was expecting him to start crying like he did over every rose ceremony... and even Sharleen's departure (not that Andi saw that until the show aired). (Then again, Andi "barely made it here".)

Obviously Nikki is being EDITED as the "catty" one, while Andi and Kelly are more the playful "instigators" stirring the pot for their own comic enjoyment. (Sharleen simply glared at Andi when she suggested Clare was "tick tock".)

In the blooper reel shown on WTA, Juan is spooked by a rat and Clare spooked by a bug. Then we get calm and collected Nikki questioning who is killing the cat. Earlier we see Juan and Kelly holding a kitten as he says "It's OK". Yet I wonder if the editors are throwing Nikki under the bus in that blooper reel since she may have said even more about others in PI sessions and private groups in "catty" fashion.

Nikki's commentary of the others began with Victoria, who insisted she is not a dog but a bitch. Nikki even tells Victoria that she is NOT a dog. Clare comments in a PI session that Nikki "acts like a" bitch. Nikki, in turn, says: "Clare is like a dawg. She peed on him first, like she claimed her territory... and the fact is... she claimed some territory that might not be hers." Note too: Molly does her business in the Bachelor pool during the bloopers.

Regardless of the outcome, let's hope Juan has a good veterinarian on hand.

Great analysis!  We differ on a few things but that the beauty of speculation.
Aii Victoria - what is key to me is that:
- in her drunken state she wanders over to where JP & Nikki are sitting and they watch her, comment, then ignore her
- the next time we see JP he is with Nikki look alike Christy and Lucy comes and asks him to come with her because he needs to deal with Victoria
- previous to all this is Victoria's definition of a relationship being about straddling people while in a hot tub

Nikki/Kat - although Kat's WTA comments do suggest she is very extroverted your comment shows that Nikki does misread people.  I think that her "Kat likes to be the centre of attention" or something like that then the scene change to Kat talking seriously with JP about her dad illustrates that Kat isn't all fun&games and that Nikki didn't know Kat very well. The same contrast occurred when Chelsey said "Nikki is so negative" while Nikki is smiling and obviously joking about the Miami date card. Overall this suggests to me that the edit is trying to show that, in general, assumptions are made with too little information or that 1st impressions should be revised as more information about a person is revealed rather than fixating on a first impression and ignoring the value of learning over time. Interestingly, Nikki made a guacamole comment on social media to which Kat responding & they have bantered playfully about Nikki's lack of dancing skill as well - all post-show.

Elise - definitely didn't like Nikki.  Her being the fire hydrant to Nikki's fashion model mustn't have helped. Nikki never meantioned Elise and I don't recall any other scenes with them together so I'm clueless about this one.
I did think Elise was smart to trade with Lucy but I  didn't get her then complaining about her fire hydrant outfit. That gives some indication of her character. Pot calling the kettle black even if she was justified in her feelings.

Clare's 1-way comment about Nikki - Clare is correct with reference to some of the girls rather than all (too general and we have since learned that Nikki was/is tight in a 4-some friendship.) Almost none of the Nikki with friends interactions (except for Nikki & Andi talking about Sharleen probably not being prepared to compromise her career to a great degree & Andi showing Nikki her dance moves & and a little blip of Andi telling Nikki someone has so many ups & downs emotionally) was shown despite it being fact. Why? For both Clare & Nikki very little fun or casual conversation was shown.  There was Clare with Chelsey talking about jewelry and Nikki & Renee having a low key chat poolside in Seoul. There may be more but few.

Fakeness - this is where Clare & Nikki are alike.  They both think the other is faking interest in JP.  In fairness, each show a different aspect of their personality when with JP. I actually think this is normal and that as the weeks progress he is astute enough to get a good read. Who you are with naturally brings out certain traits.  We can use JP as an example.  With different people he talks about different things or barely talks at all (keeping in mind edit but that's true of ALL of this), takes the lead in kissing or let's the woman lead, etc. I also think being with the other girls that are in contention for the same guy is a completely different dynamic than being with the guy 1-1.  Both girls are looked into a slightly distorted view of the other and neither of budging.

Hurt - Nikki has been consistent here including her intro video.  She is prepared to be hurt in the end.  She and JP have both hurt people.  Andi confirmed that re: JP as does his mom. You could say, Clare is still hurting re: the loss of her father and has directly stated JP hurt her and that seems to still be an unresolved issue (including her interview conference call when the Vietnam episode aired).  I think a major theme this season is not about hurting as much as how one deals with hurt or hurtful comments.  It will come up again as hinted in both sneak peek videos of the girls with JP's family members.

OMG this post is getting long!!!!!

Speaking of animals
- Clare is frightened by small things, JP smells a rat, Nikki jokes about a cat/Kat while Renee laughs (no clue there)
-  Clare said she would rather be stung by a jellyfish (Nikkei reference) and then Sean Lowe oddly tells his tale of being grabbed by the balls... and JP played soccer, took Nikki to a ball diamond and wrote in his blog about his bucket list wish plus about his nuts being bruised on the bull ..... What's with these people
?! LOL

True colors - I agree that we will see this (I hope).  True colors could be good or bad.

Back to you, sweetie!

notarose wrote:Great analysis!  We differ on a few things but that the beauty of speculation.
Aii Victoria - what is key to me is that:
- in her drunken state she wanders over to where JP & Nikki are sitting and they watch her, comment, then ignore her
- the next time we see JP he is with Nikki look alike Christy and Lucy comes and asks him to come with her because he needs to deal with Victoria
- previous to all this is Victoria's definition of a relationship being about straddling people while in a hot tub

There was DEFINITELY a lot of straddling with Clare in Vietnam.

Y'know... all I can do is "stoke" NEW ideas out of everybody with these windy-windy-windy posts. I would have NEVER seen that connection until you mentioned it!

Juan grabbed Clare for private pool time in Vietnam, but poor Victoria was by herself in her pool... hoping to straddle Juan.

Nikki/Kat - although Kat's WTA comments do suggest she is very extroverted your comment shows that Nikki does misread people.  I think that her "Kat likes to be the centre of attention" or something like that then the scene change to Kat talking seriously with JP about her dad illustrates that Kat isn't all fun&games and that Nikki didn't know Kat very well. The same contrast occurred when Chelsey said "Nikki is so negative" while Nikki is smiling and obviously joking about the Miami date card. Overall this suggests to me that the edit is trying to show that, in general, assumptions are made with too little information or that 1st impressions should be revised as more information about a person is revealed rather than fixating on a first impression and ignoring the value of learning over time. Interestingly, Nikki made a guacamole comment on social media to which Kat responding & they have bantered playfully about Nikki's lack of dancing skill as well - all post-show.

You can also add Kelly and Andi mocking both Juan and Clare's octopus moment, recited by the Juan and Clare on their 1 on 1 time together.

Yeah.. we have gotten a ton of these.

Elise - definitely didn't like Nikki.  Her being the fire hydrant to Nikki's fashion model mustn't have helped.

I thought of the fire hydrant too... but I already went overboard above. That whole doggie date probably could be analyzed on its own post.

Nikki never mentioned Elise and I don't recall any other scenes with them together so I'm clueless about this one.

Except as one of "five who are annoying". Humorously, she thought Clare was talking about her with Juan instead of Elise. Obviously these two didn't spend much time around each other.

Fakeness - this is where Clare & Nikki are alike.  They both think the other is faking interest in JP.

... and believing themselves NOT to be fake. I think. I am trying to remember if Nikki actually said she isn't "fake". Just that you can't get what you want by being so.

Hurt - Nikki has been consistent here including her intro video.  She is prepared to be hurt in the end.  She and JP have both hurt people.  

I probably commented enough on a looooooong post too, but I'll re-post her intro line in case others want to go further with it:

"I do not want to settle ever. I don't settle my professional life. I don't want to settle my love life, that's for sure. I want that head over heels in love, can't enough of each other, feeling and I don't want that feeling for, like, two weeks in the beginning. I want that feeling forever. Juan Pablo is very sexy. Very sexy. I don't know what's gonna happen and I'm excited about that. I could leave totally in love. I could leave totally heartbroken, but I think this will be an experience of a lifetime."

JBF wrote:

notarose wrote:Great analysis!  We differ on a few things but that the beauty of speculation.
Aii Victoria - what is key to me is that:
- in her drunken state she wanders over to where JP & Nikki are sitting and they watch her, comment, then ignore her
- the next time we see JP he is with Nikki look alike Christy and Lucy comes and asks him to come with her because he needs to deal with Victoria
- previous to all this is Victoria's definition of a relationship being about straddling people while in a hot tub

There was DEFINITELY a lot of straddling with Clare in Vietnam.

Y'know... all I can do is "stoke" NEW ideas out of everybody with these windy-windy-windy posts. I would have NEVER seen that connection until you mentioned it!

Juan grabbed Clare for private pool time in Vietnam, but poor Victoria was by herself in her pool... hoping to straddle Juan.

In the FS, JP also redirected wherever Clare would have gone in their conversation to "remember when" and then proceeded to talk hot tub then new scene, there they be in a hot tub.  Cut scene.

At the WTA, there was consensus that JP was more at fault despite Sharleen's buyer's remorse comment and that the hot tub was much worse.

Conclusion: this ties in to the girls' comments about " he's just looking for a girlfriend" however Sharleen disagrees but provided no reason. Is it because he wants a wife who is overtly physical or is it that he isn't going to pick the overtly physical woman?  No further ahead on this one!

I have to came here and state that after watching the new video that was release…(which I figured would be JP and Nikki) I truly don't want either one of these ladies to be the F1….Juan Pablo can go back to Venezuela and leave the American women alone. UGH!….I don't care which video has the deepest connection or JP is different here and there ….. it is just wrong to lead these women on….No wander tptb is driving a train over him….

4health wrote:I have to came here and state that after watching the new video that was release…(which I figured would be JP and Nikki) I truly don't want either one of these ladies to be the F1….Juan Pablo can go back to Venezuela and leave the American women alone.  UGH!….I don't care which video has the deepest connection or JP is different here and there ….. it is just wrong to lead these women on….No wander tptb is driving a train over him….

EVERY season, bachelor and bachelorette alike, except for Ali, the lead leads the F2 on. This is no different. It is the premise of the show. TBTB makes it so.

4health wrote:I have to came here and state that after watching the new video that was release…(which I figured would be JP and Nikki) I truly don't want either one of these ladies to be the F1….Juan Pablo can go back to Venezuela and leave the American women alone.  UGH!….I don't care which video has the deepest connection or JP is different here and there ….. it is just wrong to lead these women on….No wander tptb is driving a train over him….

So that gives Randy Dr. Andy a pass after telling Bevin he loved her but picked Tessa. IMO the leads all lead them on to an extent. That is the name of the game of this show. I really don't care who he picks or if he is still single at the end of it but the nature of this show is exactly what we are seeing. The very first show if I remember correctly it was said that Trista slept with Alex Michal and then he goes and picks Amanda. It began with the inception of this show to have a fair amount of deception.

You view this as a made for tv show and if there is a good ending great and if not watch the next one hoping it's different. It has been said so many time that TPTB could care a big rats rear end less if there is a success in the relationship they only want ratings for the $'s.

glazedover wrote:

4health wrote:I have to came here and state that after watching the new video that was release…(which I figured would be JP and Nikki) I truly don't want either one of these ladies to be the F1….Juan Pablo can go back to Venezuela and leave the American women alone.  UGH!….I don't care which video has the deepest connection or JP is different here and there ….. it is just wrong to lead these women on….No wander tptb is driving a train over him….

EVERY season, bachelor and bachelorette alike, except for Ali, the lead leads the F2 on. This is no different. It is the premise of the show. TBTB makes it so.

Yes you are correct…..the last time that it was like this was Andy's season where he said I love you to both Bevin and Tessa but we didn't get videos before the finale we were surprised during the show. Then the next closest season like this one would be Brad 1.0 JMO. We haven't had all the bad press, so many girls leaving the show, so many expressing being hurt, tptb showing the lead being rude, parents of the lead talking smack and then this….it is a lot…..so I truly do believe that tptb is exposing Juan Pablo as what he truly is….a$$hole like Nikki expressed….if she is the F1 she probably would still think that after she sees what he shared with Clare…true colors come out in real life