*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 Edit Discussions

^^Kelad, can you be more specific? Was it before, during, or after the performance? If I can find it, I'll put it in the SC thread for you.

There is another editing trick that they have up their sleeves which is the rising and descending story arcs.

The F1s story arch starts rising slightly after the f2, f3 and the rest of the crowd. Sometimes a contestant just has 1 episode prior to their elimination and then boom - they're gone. Elise complaining about Chelsie is an example.
Just something to watch for this season as well.

Moving this over to the edit thread...

Litta123 wrote:MVMom and nd, I originally felt, too, that there was no way Clare could be F1 for the very reason you cited -- she was too exposed in the previews. It didn't make any sense. But, you know I've watched those previews a gazillion times, and now I've just recently completed a marathon watching of all four episodes.

All signs point to Clare as I interpret the screen caps. The show is trying to make next week's drama with Clare look like a deal breaker, but then we see caps of Juan Pablo hanging on Clare in NZ...not the other way around. Whatever happened did not cause him to put on the breaks...at all. Clare is the only one who has two dates in St. Lucia, according to the caps. If the F1 is Nikki, she is super hidden, and if it's Andi, she's even more hidden in terms of St. Lucia. Frankly, the girl who I think Juan Pablo was most interested in pursuing further was Sharleen, but it looks like she goes in Miami.

The thing that has struck me the most as I've re-watched is how TPTB are trying to shape the viewers thinking about Clare. Yes, Clare has offered them up some insecure, clingy behavior, but they have maximized it in their story telling. So many of the comments said about Clare by the other girls have been those time travel caps...the ones identified as being taken post filming. It looks to me like TPTB decided they needed to embellish Clare's story line and got Nikki and Andi, in particular, to speak to this.

I could be WAY wrong. Heaven knows I almost always pick the wrong F1. And frankly, this season especially, I really don't care who it is. Just as long as you're serving ice cream with the cake, it'll be all good!

That may be because they have no "story" this season. There are no villains. Nikki being accused of being "negative" hardly makes her one. Juan isn't being "blinded" by anybody. He even appears to to be "on to" Sharleen acting less gung-ho about him as he is for her. I think he sees her as an easy F2 candidate who won't fuss with him about rejection at FRC.

Two things to add... and I might as well number them. (Just to be a nerd... *chuckle chuckle*)

#1 - "Default-ism"

Every season there is a lot of discussion about "default choices"... is F1 really a last moment pick after the-one-the-lead-wanted abruptly leaves or is eliminated on account of an unexpected "red flag"?

I think the actual "defaults" are those who break up with the lead shortly after filming. This just may include some who were EDITED as "the only one he wanted" on screen, like Vienna (whom Jake avoided with his DWTS gig) and Courtney (whom Ben abruptly split from for six weeks during the actual airing of the show). Generally speaking, the more confident Mike Fleiss is on the relationship, the more he likes to "test" the new couple by showing the lead fling himself/herself on somebody else to fool viewers.

If the couple lasts more the six months or so, I seriously doubt (s)he was ever a "default". That person may have been one of several choices, but never considered a "lesser" choice... just equal to others "at the time" and considered the best in the end. JP in Ashley's season was hinted to be a "default" after Bentley and many here considered Des' Chris her second choice after Brooks until the poetry book gave too-too many hints suggesting otherwise and fans of each guy finally gave up the fight. Would those two Bachelorettes been that hasty to move with their men had they not felt the potential F1 "vibe" early enough in the season?

Also many seasons have to show the lead getting over an "issue". In the case of Ashley and Desiree, both had siblings who were semi-against them being on the show because of past relationship troubles and Chrystie/Nate had to see that their little sister can get over rejection... and see that the F1 guy won't necessarily bolt on her right away. I think Juan's "issue" this season is stepmom vs. wife... he has to decide who is best for HIM rather than who he thinks is best for Camilla, since she already has a mother.

I've never put much stock in the timing of a date, although the very first date is often "cursed". Clare's would be a rule-breaker if she's F1. Catherine's later date in episode #6 was often considered a "red flag" that she might be a default after AshLee. Yet her date involved less stunt action than most preceding it, so production may have deliberately delayed her date on purpose (despite seeing the connection he had with her) just so hers would be more "romantic".

Sooo... we will have to wait a few months to determine if Juan's pick is a default or not.

Another thing that was briefly discussed before...

#2 - voicebyte/face match-ups.

For example: at the last rose ceremony, Juan says he's hopeful that "one of you can be my wife". Nikki is shown when he says "one of you". Clare is shown over "can be my wife".

Also Chelsie got the words "wife material" on her date, even if Juan wasn't specifying for him.

The whole problem with these "voice-bytes" is that there could be any number of reasons they are used...
1.) The line spoken may be intended for that contestant to hear when they watch themselves on TV. We are clueless of the "behind the scenes" backstory not shown on screen.
2.) It may relate to the situation "at the time"... and is therefore deceptive regarding The End Result. Ben Flajnick's season was downright maddening to analyze. He may very well have considered his F3 Nicki a potential "wife" when Chris Harrison used those words on her face in Belize, but... something else happened later.
3.) Sometimes the person shown is simply listening to the words and will act upon them. Usually when this is the case, we instantly get a PI session with that person discussing it.

However, they are seldom THAT random. When the Brian/Stephanie situation occurred last season, there were no shots of F1 Chris until after Brian was escorted out and Desiree's tearful talk needed to be heard by him looking with great sympathy. During the guys' get-together in Barcelona with James, Juan Pablo kept popping in a group shot, then popping out unexpectedly... all during the "came to be the next Bachelor" talk. The editors don't want a future Bachelor involved in any discussion like that!

Going by the promos, this is a cross selection of voice-bytes heard over shots of Princess Clairol... I mean Clare, of course.



"I look ahead and I see something good" (although he says this with Kat in another promo)
"I've been waiting for this"
Shown telling Clare: "this is the real deal"
"This is so hot" (Clare's voice)
Maybe this is Renee, but we think Clare is here: "There's nothing else that exists outside that kiss"
"He's husband material"
(Finding the person) "you feel is real"
After she voice-overs that she can't wait to see what comes next, we see her sobbing a bit "Are you kidding me?"
"imagine" (how much harder...)

Nikki, of course, gets his critical "daughter's future" line... at least we think that is Nikki.



"I'm loving it because I'm very hopeful..."
Winterland scene: "Look at this. This is ridiculous!"
Clare speaking: "I feel like this is the perfect fairy tale"
"Juan Pablo makes me feel..."
"She is wife material..."
Shown talking "you are surrounded by this many gorgeous women..."
(These women) "are amazing"
(Clare) "It couldn't feel any more..."
Juan again: "this is the real deal"
"a great love"... looks like her in silhouette but could be somebody else
"This is freakin' beautiful"




An unseen Cassandra in the water jeep almost, but just misses, getting "future wife" which is spoken over nobody.

Interesting splice when Nikki says "you don't know what his type is". Clare in her black bikini is shown between two others over the last three words, but then Sharleen is shown laughing immediately after Nikki stops talking.

"I don't want to share him with anybody else"
"fourteen other girls"



Clare: "Tonight was OUR night"
Andi VO: "Clare always has to sit next to him. She has to be the one to talk to him". Clare saying "It's warmer over here."
Andi is shown when saying "it is had to watch Clare", then Clare is shown over "monopolize his time".
Answering a question: "I'm not going to *try* to kiss him"
Clare with Nikki: "You're one way with the girls and one way with him" (Nikki shown as she says Clare views her as a threat.)



Clare and Juan talking all wet
"She's just full of life" (nighttime surf scene followed by Renee)
"It is gut-wrenching" (Clare and Juan together, followed by "to see these girls" spoken over Sharleen)
"... have 1 on 1 time with Juan Pablo"
(Sharleen) "It is basically the eight of us and a 1 on 1 date."
(Andi) "What am I doing here?"
(Chelsie) (It is rough to see) "him noticing someone else"
(female) "Clare has what she wants..." (but Andi is shown over "and she's here to get it")
(Clare) "I am not going to change how I am because of what other people think" Juan is shown over "other people think" to suggest they are in disagreement about something.
(Juan) (It was a horrible night...) "taking it too far"
Juan speaking: "(inaudible)... but what happened happened"
Clare crying: "It just wasn't my intention"
Clare: "That just blindsided me" (Juan crying and Clare crying)

JBF wrote:Moving this over to the edit thread...

Litta123 wrote:MVMom and nd, I originally felt, too, that there was no way Clare could be F1 for the very reason you cited -- she was too exposed in the previews. It didn't make any sense. But, you know I've watched those previews a gazillion times, and now I've just recently completed a marathon watching of all four episodes.

All signs point to Clare as I interpret the screen caps. The show is trying to make next week's drama with Clare look like a deal breaker, but then we see caps of Juan Pablo hanging on Clare in NZ...not the other way around. Whatever happened did not cause him to put on the breaks...at all. Clare is the only one who has two dates in St. Lucia, according to the caps. If the F1 is Nikki, she is super hidden, and if it's Andi, she's even more hidden in terms of St. Lucia. Frankly, the girl who I think Juan Pablo was most interested in pursuing further was Sharleen, but it looks like she goes in Miami.

The thing that has struck me the most as I've re-watched is how TPTB are trying to shape the viewers thinking about Clare. Yes, Clare has offered them up some insecure, clingy behavior, but they have maximized it in their story telling. So many of the comments said about Clare by the other girls have been those time travel caps...the ones identified as being taken post filming. It looks to me like TPTB decided they needed to embellish Clare's story line and got Nikki and Andi, in particular, to speak to this.

I could be WAY wrong. Heaven knows I almost always pick the wrong F1. And frankly, this season especially, I really don't care who it is. Just as long as you're serving ice cream with the cake, it'll be all good!

That may be because they have no "story" this season. There are no villains. Nikki being accused of being "negative" hardly makes her one. Juan isn't being "blinded" by anybody. He even appears to to be "on to" Sharleen acting less gung-ho about him as he is for her. I think he sees her as an easy F2 candidate who won't fuss with him about rejection at FRC.

Two things to add... and I might as well number them. (Just to be a nerd... *chuckle chuckle*)

#1 - "Default-ism"

Every season there is a lot of discussion about "default choices"... is F1 really a last moment pick after the-one-the-lead-wanted abruptly leaves or is eliminated on account of an unexpected "red flag"?

I think the actual "defaults" are those who break up with the lead shortly after filming. This just may include some who were EDITED as "the only one he wanted" on screen, like Vienna (whom Jake avoided with his DWTS gig) and Courtney (whom Ben abruptly split from for six weeks during the actual airing of the show). Generally speaking, the more confident Mike Fleiss is on the relationship, the more he likes to "test" the new couple by showing the lead fling himself/herself on somebody else to fool viewers.

If the couple lasts more the six months or so, I seriously doubt (s)he was ever a "default". That person may have been one of several choices, but never considered a "lesser" choice... just equal to others "at the time" and considered the best in the end. JP in Ashley's season was hinted to be a "default" after Bentley and many here considered Des' Chris her second choice after Brooks until the poetry book gave too-too many hints suggesting otherwise and fans of each guy finally gave up the fight. Would those two Bachelorettes been that hasty to move with their men had they not felt the potential F1 "vibe" early enough in the season?

Also many seasons have to show the lead getting over an "issue". In the case of Ashley and Desiree, both had siblings who were semi-against them being on the show because of past relationship troubles and Chrystie/Nate had to see that their little sister can get over rejection... and see that the F1 guy won't necessarily bolt on her right away. I think Juan's "issue" this season is stepmom vs. wife... he has to decide who is best for HIM rather than who he thinks is best for Camilla, since she already has a mother.

I've never put much stock in the timing of a date, although the very first date is often "cursed". Clare's would be a rule-breaker if she's F1. Catherine's later date in episode #6 was often considered a "red flag" that she might be a default after AshLee. Yet her date involved less stunt action than most preceding it, so production may have deliberately delayed her date on purpose (despite seeing the connection he had with her) just so hers would be more "romantic".

Sooo... we will have to wait a few months to determine if Juan's pick is a default or not.

Another thing that was briefly discussed before...

#2 - voicebyte/face match-ups.

For example: at the last rose ceremony, Juan says he's hopeful that "one of you can be my wife". Nikki is shown when he says "one of you". Clare is shown over "can be my wife".

Also Chelsie got the words "wife material" on her date, even if Juan wasn't specifying for him.

The whole problem with these "voice-bytes" is that there could be any number of reasons they are used...
1.) The line spoken may be intended for that contestant to hear when they watch themselves on TV. We are clueless of the "behind the scenes" backstory not shown on screen.
2.) It may relate to the situation "at the time"... and is therefore deceptive regarding The End Result. Ben Flajnick's season was downright maddening to analyze. He may very well have considered his F3 Nicki a potential "wife" when Chris Harrison used those words on her face in Belize, but... something else happened later.
3.) Sometimes the person shown is simply listening to the words and will act upon them. Usually when this is the case, we instantly get a PI session with that person discussing it.

However, they are seldom THAT random. When the Brian/Stephanie situation occurred last season, there were no shots of F1 Chris until after Brian was escorted out and Desiree's tearful talk needed to be heard by him looking with great sympathy. During the guys' get-together in Barcelona with James, Juan Pablo kept popping in a group shot, then popping out unexpectedly... all during the "came to be the next Bachelor" talk. The editors don't want a future Bachelor involved in any discussion like that!

Going by the promos, this is a cross selection of voice-bytes heard over shots of Princess Clairol... I mean Clare, of course.



"I look ahead and I see something good" (although he says this with Kat in another promo)
"I've been waiting for this"
Shown telling Clare: "this is the real deal"
"This is so hot" (Clare's voice)
Maybe this is Renee, but we think Clare is here: "There's nothing else that exists outside that kiss"
"He's husband material"
(Finding the person) "you feel is real"
After she voice-overs that she can't wait to see what comes next, we see her sobbing a bit "Are you kidding me?"
"imagine" (how much harder...)

Nikki, of course, gets his critical "daughter's future" line... at least we think that is Nikki.



"I'm loving it because I'm very hopeful..."
Winterland scene: "Look at this. This is ridiculous!"
Clare speaking: "I feel like this is the perfect fairy tale"
"Juan Pablo makes me feel..."
"She is wife material..."
Shown talking "you are surrounded by this many gorgeous women..."
(These women) "are amazing"
(Clare) "It couldn't feel any more..."
Juan again: "this is the real deal"
"a great love"... looks like her in silhouette but could be somebody else
"This is freakin' beautiful"




An unseen Cassandra in the water jeep almost, but just misses, getting "future wife" which is spoken over nobody.

Interesting splice when Nikki says "you don't know what his type is". Clare in her black bikini is shown between two others over the last three words, but then Sharleen is shown laughing immediately after Nikki stops talking.

"I don't want to share him with anybody else"
"fourteen other girls"



Clare: "Tonight was OUR night"
Andi VO: "Clare always has to sit next to him. She has to be the one to talk to him". Clare saying "It's warmer over here."
Andi is shown when saying "it is had to watch Clare", then Clare is shown over "monopolize his time".
Answering a question: "I'm not going to *try* to kiss him"
Clare with Nikki: "You're one way with the girls and one way with him" (Nikki shown as she says Clare views her as a threat.)



Clare and Juan talking all wet
"She's just full of life" (nighttime surf scene followed by Renee)
"It is gut-wrenching" (Clare and Juan together, followed by "to see these girls" spoken over Sharleen)
"... have 1 on 1 time with Juan Pablo"
(Sharleen) "It is basically the eight of us and a 1 on 1 date."
(Andi) "What am I doing here?"
(Chelsie) (It is rough to see) "him noticing someone else"
(female) "Clare has what she wants..." (but Andi is shown over "and she's here to get it")
(Clare) "I am not going to change how I am because of what other people think" Juan is shown over "other people think" to suggest they are in disagreement about something.
(Juan) (It was a horrible night...) "taking it too far"
Juan speaking: "(inaudible)... but what happened happened"
Clare crying: "It just wasn't my intention"
Clare: "That just blindsided me" (Juan crying and Clare crying)

Wow JBF! Thanks for the detail explanation. Can't wait to the next episode to see what you come out with!

They certainly have my curiosity up for Monday... ha ha! I have the feeling it will be the most entertaining show of the season.

Have JPab and Clare talked about Cameeeela yet??? That's another big clue...talking about family, but more specifically about his child.

Litta123 wrote:^^Kelad, can you be more specific? Was it before, during, or after the performance? If I can find it, I'll put it in the SC thread for you.

Right before the performance. Right after they got out of the truck to run into the mall. Right when everyone is looking up at the 3 story mall. I caught Chelsie and Juan looking at each other instead of looking at the mall like everyone else was doing and they eventually looked up at the mall after a one second look at each other.

Mommyof1 wrote:Have JPab and Clare talked about Cameeeela yet???  That's another big clue...talking about family, but more specifically about his child.

Nop! Nothing about Camilla yet. They don't have normal conversation, so far it's all about her father.

Hmmm...well he did ask Nikki how she felt about Camilla. That was in the edit for a reason.

Has Camilla's name been mentioned with anyone else?

Mommyof1 wrote:Hmmm...well he did ask Nikki how she felt about Camilla.  That was in the edit for a reason.  

Forgot about that. He did.

He did bring up the topic about future family with Sharlene because she talked about her past relationship but I don't recall anything about Camilla specifically.
I need to re-watch some parts of the episode minus the drama.

He showed Cassandra pictures of his daughter AND he spoke to Renee and her a lot about his daughter.

But I certainly don't think he talked to Clare and Andi about it. scmiiw.

Most likely Renee and Cassandra because they both have children.