Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

ironcat wrote:

albean99 wrote:

KatesMom wrote:Ashley apparently did an interview with her local paper basically saying she didn't think she was a good bachelorette because she couldn't hide her feelings well, or pretend to feel things she didn't. She is quoted as saying she was 95% sure who her F1 was after the hometown dates, and she can't believe anyone watching the show DOESN'T know who her F1 is. She also said she knew early on. To me, all of that screams JP. We didn't even see Ben until the orphanage date. My feeling on all of this is what I think Jelle said on the previous page - the producers have to make a show and they have to give us a viable F2. Ben is this season's Chris L - everyone was so in love with Chris L that I think people saw things that maybe weren't there. I do see a chemistry with Ben - but is that because the producers are showing us every bit of footage they can find where the two of them were romantic? With regard to JP - the chemistry is there. The feelings are there. I think the edit the last two weeks has been the producer's throwing some doubt out there about him - trying to even the two guys up. What I see on the unspoiled boards are how many people try to make arguments - but at the end of the day it obviously comes down to who your favorite is and who you see yourself with. Best example of this I can come up with is Ed - most did not want Ed to win. But knowing what we know about Jillian, I do think Ed was the best choice FOR HER. We may love Ben; we may not like things we are being shown about JP. But at the end of the day, who is the right person for Ashley? Only she knows - and at least based on what I have seen, she has made her choice already.

Apparently they're actually going out of their way to hide the chemistry with Ben. We've seen a ton of pics of Ben & Ashley's last 2 dates that we never saw including the fun stuff from the HTD. It makes me wonder why? Maybe so we cant compare it to JP's skating date? Maybe they're trying to force us into thinking it's the Chris L edit? I think someone else talked about this earlier today.

I also wonder why Ben's getting the longer dates in comparison to JP's if it's true JP is the f1? I know the producers pick who goes on what date but why shorten the HTD for the favorite if you want this to end in a good way? Makes me think that maybe he's not really the f1 but the one they want us to think it is.

I know you're going to say it's to put doubt into JP's edit but still think it's strange that we don't see anything romantic with JP in the FD or LCD unless you count a kiss in the plane. Hiding or is there really trouble in paradise?

With all due respect, we really don't know if the footage they are not showing with Ben sizzles with any chemistry either; perhaps it shows even more of a friendship/tepid connection than we are already seeing, and the kisses are just more of those closed-mouth long pecks. CH said the footage from HTDs was carefree and fun, but he didn't say it was smoking hot.

happyntexas wrote:

KatesMom wrote:

Nativenewyorker wrote:

ironcat wrote:

Reidiscool wrote:The shortness of JPs 1-1s and his HTD, his competitive edit and Ash's incessant reminders of looking for REAL and not trying to "win" her lead me to think that JP was always going to be her her F2. The Bentley crap, the less than stellar edit of JP, and Ash choosing him against her families wishes just doesn't make sense to me for a JP F1. It is just smoke and mirrors for the audience to think that Ash's picker is broken. She fell for the cad Bentley and now she's going to fall for JP, despite the edited jealousy warnings and the family disapproval.

Here's the thing though. The majority of the audience won't think Ashley's picker is broken if she chooses JP. This idea that he has gotten such a bad edit is only in the opinions of some sleuthers who analyze the edit, but it isn't scaring off the majority of viewers who aren't so alarmed by all of JP's supposed flaws. And I can already predict that in the matchup between Ash's sister and JP, the overall audience will side with JP, and it will probably only make him more endearing to them.

Comparing JP's situation with Kirsten from the Firestone season is problematic. Kirsten was a true villain that whole season, and NOBODY was rooting for her. When she finally got her comeuppance at the hands of Andrew's brother, the viewers cheered. That was exactly the edit the producers were going for. If they are trying to duplicate that reaction this season, they will have failed miserably.

I was going to give my thoughts, but then I read. your comments and realized you pretty much made my argument. I think we get into our own bubble online. It's easy to forget that the average viewer is seeing things very differently, having not been spoiled. They don't know about the edit and the splicing and dicing and scripting that is such a part of this show.

Unfortunately, JP has been made out to be something that I simply do not think he is, by some people online. Things get exaggerated and exhanced and words are parsed and analyzed to death. It's almost as though JP has to play the villain to Ben's good guy. This is the dynamic that always really bothers me. Things are broken down in terms of black and white, good versus evil, saint versus devil. It sure makes things more dramatic, but I don't think it is an accurate portrayal of the contestants. No one is all good and no one is all bad. I think the majority of the viewing audience doesn't see the F2 in this histrionic and melodramatic manner.

Others may have a different view, but on the boards where the unspoiled are talking, I have actually seen a shift this week. Ben is actually jumping out in front. His edit this week was very similar to the Chris L edit - I have heard multiple friends who don't read the boards say that they fell in love with Ben this week. In contrast, what has surprised me is how many people are not pointing at JP's jealousy last week, but at the comments he made about his ex this week. They see it as him putting all the blame for the relationship's demise on her shoulders. That, coupled with the jealousy from last week has a number of people calling JP very immature and not ready for a relationship. So while we may know that both JP and Ben are good guys - it actually does appear that to the general viewing audience there has been a shift in the last week and Ben is coming up quick, if not taking JP over for fan favorite. Now, maybe this is all the produer's hope to make Ben the fan favorite in hopes of making him the next Bachelor because Ryan was not as accepted as they hope. I honestly don't know. I just wanted to throw out there for consideration what I have seen on other boards and from people who don't read the boards, but watch the show.

I am pleased you said this. I watch the show 2 hours later than most.....so I'm always behind. But, I follow along with this board that all watch the show together. And they are completely unspoiled. Nearly 80% of them are JP huge supporters. Wouldn't jump ship to save their life. LOL However, I noticed that 30 minutes before the show was due to end, there was a massive shift. All of the sudden they were jumping ship left and right, and praising Ben. I couldn't figure it out. So, when I finally got to watch. It was during JP's hometown date when the switch occurred. And, the comments were much like you stated previously.

wachin4fun wrote:

Reidiscool wrote:As the season winds up to it's climax I feel the need for a brain dump of my take on this season as the pieces are falling in to place for me.

Warning: my brand of Koolaid coming This is my take on the season and will no doubt be very unpopular with most readers. :hidingchair

Disclaimer: I am not in the least bit attached to either of the F2 guys. Both are hot in their own way but just not my type.

I've been thinking about the edit and doesn't anyone think it suspicious that Ben's dates of late are mirroring CL's. First they have the sad loss of a parent in common (Ben's edit has not been seen to dwell on this as CLs did). The scooter date in Taiwan (mirrors CLs portugal scooter date prior to hometowns), Sad HTD with Ben and Ash sitting on the porch (mirrors Ali and Chris in the rockers), Ben's heart to heart with his mom (mirrors CL's with his Dad), the preview of next weeks FD show Ben and Ash on a yacht and him carrying her by the pool (this so mirrors CL yacht FD with him carrying Ali out of the water). With CH's endorsement of someone we will fall in love with and Ben's hidden edit in the first three episodes it is their intention to make viewers believe that Ben is the second coming of CL. People are not buying Ben and Ash's love story because they were fooled before and still will not believe it when they have an off the charts FD next week.

The previews of Ash's sister and VO of Ash left a 100% impression that Ash picks JP (but against her family's wishes). So even when Ben and Ash heat it up in their fantasy date and she starts her bumpy ride with JP people will still believe this is all smoke and mirrors, because the previews have hinted with no uncertain doubt that JP wins in the end.

I have another take on JPs HTD (wouldn't ya know ). I think a lot of the scenes with the mother have been spliced. I think the mother gave Ash a massive grilling which accounts for Ash's facial reactions and defensive high pitched insincere squeek "Oh you are so sweet". I saw Ash's grabbing/touching reaching out at JP of the sofa as defensive body language. She certainly high tailed it out of there EARLY.

The shortness of JPs 1-1s and his HTD, his competitive edit and Ash's incessant reminders of looking for REAL and not trying to "win" her lead me to think that JP was always going to be her her F2. The Bentley crap, the less than stellar edit of JP, and Ash choosing him against her families wishes just doesn't make sense to me for a JP F1. It is just smoke and mirrors for the audience to think that Ash's picker is broken. She fell for the cad Bentley and now she's going to fall for JP, despite the edited jealousy warnings and the family disapproval.

IMO the show is getting better and going to great lengths to keep their F1 a secret. This year I believe they have executed that plan to the letter, CH, Ash and Ben included. I fully expect some more Ben spoilers in the rags come out this week.

I'm totally prepared to eat CROW (serve it up to me warm though) but for me the season's edit doesn't make sense any other way unless Benny boy is her guy.

I love thinking of new theories, but a problem I have with this theory is why was she ALL over JP during their HTD. Even if they edited it out for Ben, she was still completely gaga over JP in that episode. Unless the producers told her to be kissing him constantly. She even had both hands on him when walking down the street, not just one hand hold at one point at least - she way really holding on to him. I am fine either way, but just can't get past her saying how honest she is and it would be obvious (and watching her bluntness and honesty to the guys during the season as well) and then seeing the difference in her body language toward both men during the HTDs. But, the producers do like to mix it up, so who knows. But, if they really write their blogs also - then hard to believe she can pick Ben. I actually love how they keep changing the edits so we are on our toes - this year either it seems way too obvious or they are working hard to hide the real story and we are not sure which!

gurlbrit wrote:

nutty1 wrote:That's interesting. Could Fleiss be that evil that he purposely set out to make RS look like a fool?? YES!

MF could but would he shoot himself (the show) in the foot to do it? That's the $1.0 million question.

ironcat wrote:

Reidiscool wrote:The shortness of JPs 1-1s and his HTD, his competitive edit and Ash's incessant reminders of looking for REAL and not trying to "win" her lead me to think that JP was always going to be her her F2. The Bentley crap, the less than stellar edit of JP, and Ash choosing him against her families wishes just doesn't make sense to me for a JP F1. It is just smoke and mirrors for the audience to think that Ash's picker is broken. She fell for the cad Bentley and now she's going to fall for JP, despite the edited jealousy warnings and the family disapproval.

Here's the thing though. The majority of the audience won't think Ashley's picker is broken if she chooses JP. This idea that he has gotten such a bad edit is only in the opinions of some sleuthers who analyze the edit, but it isn't scaring off the majority of viewers who aren't so alarmed by all of JP's supposed flaws. And I can already predict that in the matchup between Ash's sister and JP, the overall audience will side with JP, and it will probably only make him more endearing to them.

Comparing JP's situation with Kirsten from the Firestone season is problematic. Kirsten was a true villain that whole season, and NOBODY was rooting for her. When she finally got her comeuppance at the hands of Andrew's brother, the viewers cheered. That was exactly the edit the producers were going for. If they are trying to duplicate that reaction this season, they will have failed miserably.

alsoaktchr wrote:
MF did say he was going to let RS shoot himself in the foot again!! LOL

But if it was April Bremily's FRC hadn't aired yet...???

jelle wrote:JP's edit has to take a dive or there is no suspense for the FRC. Just like Ben's should come up. There are only two horses in this race anymore, unless you count Ryan, and he only thinks he might be able to get back into the stable.

JBanana wrote:

happyntexas wrote:

KatesMom wrote:

Nativenewyorker wrote:

ironcat wrote:

Reidiscool wrote:The shortness of JPs 1-1s and his HTD, his competitive edit and Ash's incessant reminders of looking for REAL and not trying to "win" her lead me to think that JP was always going to be her her F2. The Bentley crap, the less than stellar edit of JP, and Ash choosing him against her families wishes just doesn't make sense to me for a JP F1. It is just smoke and mirrors for the audience to think that Ash's picker is broken. She fell for the cad Bentley and now she's going to fall for JP, despite the edited jealousy warnings and the family disapproval.

Here's the thing though. The majority of the audience won't think Ashley's picker is broken if she chooses JP. This idea that he has gotten such a bad edit is only in the opinions of some sleuthers who analyze the edit, but it isn't scaring off the majority of viewers who aren't so alarmed by all of JP's supposed flaws. And I can already predict that in the matchup between Ash's sister and JP, the overall audience will side with JP, and it will probably only make him more endearing to them.

Comparing JP's situation with Kirsten from the Firestone season is problematic. Kirsten was a true villain that whole season, and NOBODY was rooting for her. When she finally got her comeuppance at the hands of Andrew's brother, the viewers cheered. That was exactly the edit the producers were going for. If they are trying to duplicate that reaction this season, they will have failed miserably.

I was going to give my thoughts, but then I read. your comments and realized you pretty much made my argument. I think we get into our own bubble online. It's easy to forget that the average viewer is seeing things very differently, having not been spoiled. They don't know about the edit and the splicing and dicing and scripting that is such a part of this show.

Unfortunately, JP has been made out to be something that I simply do not think he is, by some people online. Things get exaggerated and exhanced and words are parsed and analyzed to death. It's almost as though JP has to play the villain to Ben's good guy. This is the dynamic that always really bothers me. Things are broken down in terms of black and white, good versus evil, saint versus devil. It sure makes things more dramatic, but I don't think it is an accurate portrayal of the contestants. No one is all good and no one is all bad. I think the majority of the viewing audience doesn't see the F2 in this histrionic and melodramatic manner.

Others may have a different view, but on the boards where the unspoiled are talking, I have actually seen a shift this week. Ben is actually jumping out in front. His edit this week was very similar to the Chris L edit - I have heard multiple friends who don't read the boards say that they fell in love with Ben this week. In contrast, what has surprised me is how many people are not pointing at JP's jealousy last week, but at the comments he made about his ex this week. They see it as him putting all the blame for the relationship's demise on her shoulders. That, coupled with the jealousy from last week has a number of people calling JP very immature and not ready for a relationship. So while we may know that both JP and Ben are good guys - it actually does appear that to the general viewing audience there has been a shift in the last week and Ben is coming up quick, if not taking JP over for fan favorite. Now, maybe this is all the produer's hope to make Ben the fan favorite in hopes of making him the next Bachelor because Ryan was not as accepted as they hope. I honestly don't know. I just wanted to throw out there for consideration what I have seen on other boards and from people who don't read the boards, but watch the show.

I am pleased you said this. I watch the show 2 hours later than most.....so I'm always behind. But, I follow along with this board that all watch the show together. And they are completely unspoiled. Nearly 80% of them are JP huge supporters. Wouldn't jump ship to save their life. LOL However, I noticed that 30 minutes before the show was due to end, there was a massive shift. All of the sudden they were jumping ship left and right, and praising Ben. I couldn't figure it out. So, when I finally got to watch. It was during JP's hometown date when the switch occurred. And, the comments were much like you stated previously.

I don't see it that "praising Ben" = "jumping ship from JP". Since the very first episode I have been a fan of both Ben and JP.. I think a lot of people, spoiled or unspoiled, like them both. (obviously not everybody). But I praise Ben a lot, because I really like him, that doesn't mean I don't think Ashely will pick JP, or that I don't think she should.

It doesn't surprise me at all that we saw a lot of Ben love on the boards this past episode, his HTD was really touching and clearly lots of people were moved by it. But I just don't think that means a lot of people have switched to thinking he is F1, I think it's just that people really like him and said so. I am one of those people, so... I guess that's my personal take on it.

Like I said, I liked both Ben and JP from the beginning. I watched the first 3 episodes without spoilers, so that was my own preference. If I had seen Ashley falling for Ben as opposed to JP, I would have no problem picking him as F1 and rooting for him and her.. but I only see that with JP. Which doesn't mean I think Ashley and Ben have no connection... they clearly do, and she clearly cares about him a lot. Just not to the same degree, remotely, as JP.

Beeleever wrote:

jelle wrote:JP's edit has to take a dive or there is no suspense for the FRC. Just like Ben's should come up. There are only two horses in this race anymore, unless you count Ryan, and he only thinks he might be able to get back into the stable.

I agree, Jelle. More so than who goes on a land date or water date, who is in a kayak or who gets a mudbath...I think we need to look at the fact that in order to create suspense on the finale, the F1's edit has to start showing major doubts, while the F2 edit has to start moving forward. I love your post earlier about confirming that Coastal's sources will be right that JP's edit is going to start to decline while Ben's will start to rise. We have to start seeing Ben as a contender in this race and it has to start next week.

Coastal wrote:

Beeleever wrote:

jelle wrote:JP's edit has to take a dive or there is no suspense for the FRC. Just like Ben's should come up. There are only two horses in this race anymore, unless you count Ryan, and he only thinks he might be able to get back into the stable.

I agree, Jelle. More so than who goes on a land date or water date, who is in a kayak or who gets a mudbath...I think we need to look at the fact that in order to create suspense on the finale, the F1's edit has to start showing major doubts, while the F2 edit has to start moving forward. I love your post earlier about confirming that Coastal's sources will be right that JP's edit is going to start to decline while Ben's will start to rise. We have to start seeing Ben as a contender in this race and it has to start next week.

The thing is though...........I have seen Ben as a serious contender since epi 4.........