Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

jelle wrote:I have thought from the beginning this was a straight forward edit, and nothing has changed my mind.

I believe they get 26 people, throw them in a confined area and watch the fireworks. Sometimes they get lucky and their casting hunches play out, sometimes they can induce some good/great moments.

I think Ashley was fortunate that she had some great guys, and she could narrow down the ones she liked rather quickly and discard the rest.

Bentley would have departed when he did whether it was his decision or production. No way were they going to let him scam the show. But he was a great obstacle to throw in Ashley's path and get everyone riled up.

By the time they started travelling, JP was at the top of Ashley's list and everything else was simply a divesion - roadblocks along the way, potholes along the tunpike - leading to the finale. JP rescues the princess all through the show. They could have ended the show at Phuket and made the rest a travelogue - "Travels with Ashley and JP."

IMO

I totally agree and will add another theory to back this up, even though it pains me to do so.

JP is getting the Ian edit and JP's sexay is working on Ashley just like Ian's did on Meredith. :tackle:

I'll let the JP fans come up with the parallels for JP and Ashley but I'll list what I see as the similarities in the edits:

• Ian and Meredith made out everywhere they could find - uncomfortable benches, hammocks, beds, the floor.

• Ian mashed Meredith against anything he could find - fences, kitchen counters, walls.

• Ian's brother gave him a warning on his HTD and Erik was mercilessly trashed everywhere.

• Ian had a negative edit about his wanderlust and was also trashed mercilessly to the point that a thread was created on the ABC board called "Ian is Human."

I defintely see this as JP's F1 edit but as much as I was a fan of Ian's I am not of JP's.

I never felt Ian was "in it to win it" and that's all I see with JP. I like my men and crushes more humble. 8)

lavenderred wrote:

jelle wrote:I have thought from the beginning this was a straight forward edit, and nothing has changed my mind.

I believe they get 26 people, throw them in a confined area and watch the fireworks. Sometimes they get lucky and their casting hunches play out, sometimes they can induce some good/great moments.

I think Ashley was fortunate that she had some great guys, and she could narrow down the ones she liked rather quickly and discard the rest.

Bentley would have departed when he did whether it was his decision or production. No way were they going to let him scam the show. But he was a great obstacle to throw in Ashley's path and get everyone riled up.

By the time they started travelling, JP was at the top of Ashley's list and everything else was simply a divesion - roadblocks along the way, potholes along the tunpike - leading to the finale. JP rescues the princess all through the show. They could have ended the show at Phuket and made the rest a travelogue - "Travels with Ashley and JP."

IMO

I totally agree and will add another theory to back this up, even though it pains me to do so.

JP is getting the Ian edit and JP's sexay is working on Ashley just like Ian's did on Meredith. :tackle:

I'll let the JP fans come up with the parallels for JP and Ashley but I'll list what I see as the similarities in the edits:

• Ian and Meredith made out everywhere they could find - uncomfortable benches, hammocks, beds, the floor.

• Ian mashed Meredith against anything he could find - fences, kitchen counters, walls.

• Ian's brother gave him a warning on his HTD and Erik was mercilessly trashed everywhere.

• Ian had a negative edit about his wanderlust and was also trashed mercilessly to the point that a thread was created on the ABC board called "Ian is Human."

I defintely see this as JP's F1 edit but as much as I was a fan of Ian's I am not of JP's.

I never felt Ian was "in it to win it" and that's all I see with JP. I like my men and crushes more humble. 8)

obviously

but what you see is not what is seen by everyone because we all have a different background and we are unfolding this with our own story.

Lets remember that ashley said a couple of time that she wants the total package. She said it with JP and Ben

What makes the difference is her facial which is totally different with both.

You are saying that passion is not good unless I jump to conclusion. I am saying that for a couple to work you need: complicity, same goals and good sex

And it is VERY normal IMO that when you are falling in love sex is a great part of your emotions. It generally stabilize a couple of months after the start of the relationship.

So lets just give a chance here. We are all jaded because so little success with this reality show but I am thinking Trista and Ali here and I think this couple can work. I have great expectation for them both!

Nativenewyorker wrote:

ironcat wrote:

Reidiscool wrote:The shortness of JPs 1-1s and his HTD, his competitive edit and Ash's incessant reminders of looking for REAL and not trying to "win" her lead me to think that JP was always going to be her her F2. The Bentley crap, the less than stellar edit of JP, and Ash choosing him against her families wishes just doesn't make sense to me for a JP F1. It is just smoke and mirrors for the audience to think that Ash's picker is broken. She fell for the cad Bentley and now she's going to fall for JP, despite the edited jealousy warnings and the family disapproval.

Here's the thing though. The majority of the audience won't think Ashley's picker is broken if she chooses JP. This idea that he has gotten such a bad edit is only in the opinions of some sleuthers who analyze the edit, but it isn't scaring off the majority of viewers who aren't so alarmed by all of JP's supposed flaws. And I can already predict that in the matchup between Ash's sister and JP, the overall audience will side with JP, and it will probably only make him more endearing to them.

Comparing JP's situation with Kirsten from the Firestone season is problematic. Kirsten was a true villain that whole season, and NOBODY was rooting for her. When she finally got her comeuppance at the hands of Andrew's brother, the viewers cheered. That was exactly the edit the producers were going for. If they are trying to duplicate that reaction this season, they will have failed miserably.

I was going to give my thoughts, but then I read. your comments and realized you pretty much made my argument. I think we get into our own bubble online. It's easy to forget that the average viewer is seeing things very differently, having not been spoiled. They don't know about the edit and the splicing and dicing and scripting that is such a part of this show.

Unfortunately, JP has been made out to be something that I simply do not think he is, by some people online. Things get exaggerated and exhanced and words are parsed and analyzed to death. It's almost as though JP has to play the villain to Ben's good guy. This is the dynamic that always really bothers me. Things are broken down in terms of black and white, good versus evil, saint versus devil. It sure makes things more dramatic, but I don't think it is an accurate portrayal of the contestants. No one is all good and no one is all bad. I think the majority of the viewing audience doesn't see the F2 in this histrionic and melodramatic manner.

NNY, I sometimes think we share a brain. Black and white thinking, also known as manichean thinking, is my ultimate pet peeve, and I do see it often on boards, when people feel they have to trash the other side any way they can, and, like you said, make the competitor out to be evil in order to make their side more "pure" and just.

JP is a good guy. Ben is a good guy. Neither is perfect, and they both have flaws, although neither one is so dangerously flawed that anybody should see "red flags" in real life regarding these guys as potential mates. The show chose to dwell upon, exacerbate, and exaggerate one of JP's flaws. They chose not to do the same with Ben. The end.

ironcat wrote:

Nativenewyorker wrote:

ironcat wrote:

Reidiscool wrote:The shortness of JPs 1-1s and his HTD, his competitive edit and Ash's incessant reminders of looking for REAL and not trying to "win" her lead me to think that JP was always going to be her her F2. The Bentley crap, the less than stellar edit of JP, and Ash choosing him against her families wishes just doesn't make sense to me for a JP F1. It is just smoke and mirrors for the audience to think that Ash's picker is broken. She fell for the cad Bentley and now she's going to fall for JP, despite the edited jealousy warnings and the family disapproval.

Here's the thing though. The majority of the audience won't think Ashley's picker is broken if she chooses JP. This idea that he has gotten such a bad edit is only in the opinions of some sleuthers who analyze the edit, but it isn't scaring off the majority of viewers who aren't so alarmed by all of JP's supposed flaws. And I can already predict that in the matchup between Ash's sister and JP, the overall audience will side with JP, and it will probably only make him more endearing to them.

Comparing JP's situation with Kirsten from the Firestone season is problematic. Kirsten was a true villain that whole season, and NOBODY was rooting for her. When she finally got her comeuppance at the hands of Andrew's brother, the viewers cheered. That was exactly the edit the producers were going for. If they are trying to duplicate that reaction this season, they will have failed miserably.

I was going to give my thoughts, but then I read. your comments and realized you pretty much made my argument. I think we get into our own bubble online. It's easy to forget that the average viewer is seeing things very differently, having not been spoiled. They don't know about the edit and the splicing and dicing and scripting that is such a part of this show.

Unfortunately, JP has been made out to be something that I simply do not think he is, by some people online. Things get exaggerated and exhanced and words are parsed and analyzed to death. It's almost as though JP has to play the villain to Ben's good guy. This is the dynamic that always really bothers me. Things are broken down in terms of black and white, good versus evil, saint versus devil. It sure makes things more dramatic, but I don't think it is an accurate portrayal of the contestants. No one is all good and no one is all bad. I think the majority of the viewing audience doesn't see the F2 in this histrionic and melodramatic manner.

NNY, I sometimes think we share a brain. Black and white thinking, also known as manichean thinking, is my ultimate pet peeve, and I do see it often on boards, when people feel they have to trash the other side any way they can, and, like you said, make the competitor out to be evil in order to make their side more "pure" and just.

JP is a good guy. Ben is a good guy. Neither is perfect, and they both have flaws, although neither one so dangerously flawed that anybody should see "red flags" in real life regarding these guys as potential mates. The show chose to dwell upon, exacerbate, and exaggerate one of JP's flaws. They chose not to do the same with Ben. The end.

That is just what I was saying in Ben F thread. I completely agree.

Titou wrote:You are saying that passion is not good unless I jump to conclusion.

Au contraire, passion is very very good!! I very much enjoyed watching Meredith's and Ian's passion because I liked both of them. :Nod:

Nuff said.

Well, actually, I'd rather try to avoid the negative so I don't venture into the JP batcave.

Nativenewyorker wrote:

ironcat wrote:

Reidiscool wrote:The shortness of JPs 1-1s and his HTD, his competitive edit and Ash's incessant reminders of looking for REAL and not trying to "win" her lead me to think that JP was always going to be her her F2. The Bentley crap, the less than stellar edit of JP, and Ash choosing him against her families wishes just doesn't make sense to me for a JP F1. It is just smoke and mirrors for the audience to think that Ash's picker is broken. She fell for the cad Bentley and now she's going to fall for JP, despite the edited jealousy warnings and the family disapproval.

Here's the thing though. The majority of the audience won't think Ashley's picker is broken if she chooses JP. This idea that he has gotten such a bad edit is only in the opinions of some sleuthers who analyze the edit, but it isn't scaring off the majority of viewers who aren't so alarmed by all of JP's supposed flaws. And I can already predict that in the matchup between Ash's sister and JP, the overall audience will side with JP, and it will probably only make him more endearing to them.

Comparing JP's situation with Kirsten from the Firestone season is problematic. Kirsten was a true villain that whole season, and NOBODY was rooting for her. When she finally got her comeuppance at the hands of Andrew's brother, the viewers cheered. That was exactly the edit the producers were going for. If they are trying to duplicate that reaction this season, they will have failed miserably.

I was going to give my thoughts, but then I read. your comments and realized you pretty much made my argument. I think we get into our own bubble online. It's easy to forget that the average viewer is seeing things very differently, having not been spoiled. They don't know about the edit and the splicing and dicing and scripting that is such a part of this show.

Unfortunately, JP has been made out to be something that I simply do not think he is, by some people online. Things get exaggerated and exhanced and words are parsed and analyzed to death. It's almost as though JP has to play the villain to Ben's good guy. This is the dynamic that always really bothers me. Things are broken down in terms of black and white, good versus evil, saint versus devil. It sure makes things more dramatic, but I don't think it is an accurate portrayal of the contestants. No one is all good and no one is all bad. I think the majority of the viewing audience doesn't see the F2 in this histrionic and melodramatic manner.

Others may have a different view, but on the boards where the unspoiled are talking, I have actually seen a shift this week. Ben is actually jumping out in front. His edit this week was very similar to the Chris L edit - I have heard multiple friends who don't read the boards say that they fell in love with Ben this week. In contrast, what has surprised me is how many people are not pointing at JP's jealousy last week, but at the comments he made about his ex this week. They see it as him putting all the blame for the relationship's demise on her shoulders. That, coupled with the jealousy from last week has a number of people calling JP very immature and not ready for a relationship. So while we may know that both JP and Ben are good guys - it actually does appear that to the general viewing audience there has been a shift in the last week and Ben is coming up quick, if not taking JP over for fan favorite. Now, maybe this is all the produer's hope to make Ben the fan favorite in hopes of making him the next Bachelor because Ryan was not as accepted as they hope. I honestly don't know. I just wanted to throw out there for consideration what I have seen on other boards and from people who don't read the boards, but watch the show.

KatesMom wrote:

Nativenewyorker wrote:

ironcat wrote:

Reidiscool wrote:The shortness of JPs 1-1s and his HTD, his competitive edit and Ash's incessant reminders of looking for REAL and not trying to "win" her lead me to think that JP was always going to be her her F2. The Bentley crap, the less than stellar edit of JP, and Ash choosing him against her families wishes just doesn't make sense to me for a JP F1. It is just smoke and mirrors for the audience to think that Ash's picker is broken. She fell for the cad Bentley and now she's going to fall for JP, despite the edited jealousy warnings and the family disapproval.

Here's the thing though. The majority of the audience won't think Ashley's picker is broken if she chooses JP. This idea that he has gotten such a bad edit is only in the opinions of some sleuthers who analyze the edit, but it isn't scaring off the majority of viewers who aren't so alarmed by all of JP's supposed flaws. And I can already predict that in the matchup between Ash's sister and JP, the overall audience will side with JP, and it will probably only make him more endearing to them.

Comparing JP's situation with Kirsten from the Firestone season is problematic. Kirsten was a true villain that whole season, and NOBODY was rooting for her. When she finally got her comeuppance at the hands of Andrew's brother, the viewers cheered. That was exactly the edit the producers were going for. If they are trying to duplicate that reaction this season, they will have failed miserably.

I was going to give my thoughts, but then I read. your comments and realized you pretty much made my argument. I think we get into our own bubble online. It's easy to forget that the average viewer is seeing things very differently, having not been spoiled. They don't know about the edit and the splicing and dicing and scripting that is such a part of this show.

Unfortunately, JP has been made out to be something that I simply do not think he is, by some people online. Things get exaggerated and exhanced and words are parsed and analyzed to death. It's almost as though JP has to play the villain to Ben's good guy. This is the dynamic that always really bothers me. Things are broken down in terms of black and white, good versus evil, saint versus devil. It sure makes things more dramatic, but I don't think it is an accurate portrayal of the contestants. No one is all good and no one is all bad. I think the majority of the viewing audience doesn't see the F2 in this histrionic and melodramatic manner.

Others may have a different view, but on the boards where the unspoiled are talking, I have actually seen a shift this week. Ben is actually jumping out in front. His edit this week was very similar to the Chris L edit - I have heard multiple friends who don't read the boards say that they fell in love with Ben this week. In contrast, what has surprised me is how many people are not pointing at JP's jealousy last week, but at the comments he made about his ex this week. They see it as him putting all the blame for the relationship's demise on her shoulders. That, coupled with the jealousy from last week has a number of people calling JP very immature and not ready for a relationship. So while we may know that both JP and Ben are good guys - it actually does appear that to the general viewing audience there has been a shift in the last week and Ben is coming up quick, if not taking JP over for fan favorite. Now, maybe this is all the produer's hope to make Ben the fan favorite in hopes of making him the next Bachelor because Ryan was not as accepted as they hope. I honestly don't know. I just wanted to throw out there for consideration what I have seen on other boards and from people who don't read the boards, but watch the show.

I am pleased you said this. I watch the show 2 hours later than most.....so I'm always behind. But, I follow along with this board that all watch the show together. And they are completely unspoiled. Nearly 80% of them are JP huge supporters. Wouldn't jump ship to save their life. LOL However, I noticed that 30 minutes before the show was due to end, there was a massive shift. All of the sudden they were jumping ship left and right, and praising Ben. I couldn't figure it out. So, when I finally got to watch. It was during JP's hometown date when the switch occurred. And, the comments were much like you stated previously.

Well, there is no real scientific way to know, but from what I have read, Ben may be gaining some ground after this week in that people finally know who he is, but so far, he is still nowhere close to catching up or passing JP in the fan favorite race. Although the fact that the show seems so intent on helping him as much as possible to get there is only further indication that JP is F1 IMO.

KatesMom wrote:

Nativenewyorker wrote:

ironcat wrote:

Reidiscool wrote:The shortness of JPs 1-1s and his HTD, his competitive edit and Ash's incessant reminders of looking for REAL and not trying to "win" her lead me to think that JP was always going to be her her F2. The Bentley crap, the less than stellar edit of JP, and Ash choosing him against her families wishes just doesn't make sense to me for a JP F1. It is just smoke and mirrors for the audience to think that Ash's picker is broken. She fell for the cad Bentley and now she's going to fall for JP, despite the edited jealousy warnings and the family disapproval.

Here's the thing though. The majority of the audience won't think Ashley's picker is broken if she chooses JP. This idea that he has gotten such a bad edit is only in the opinions of some sleuthers who analyze the edit, but it isn't scaring off the majority of viewers who aren't so alarmed by all of JP's supposed flaws. And I can already predict that in the matchup between Ash's sister and JP, the overall audience will side with JP, and it will probably only make him more endearing to them.

Comparing JP's situation with Kirsten from the Firestone season is problematic. Kirsten was a true villain that whole season, and NOBODY was rooting for her. When she finally got her comeuppance at the hands of Andrew's brother, the viewers cheered. That was exactly the edit the producers were going for. If they are trying to duplicate that reaction this season, they will have failed miserably.

I was going to give my thoughts, but then I read. your comments and realized you pretty much made my argument. I think we get into our own bubble online. It's easy to forget that the average viewer is seeing things very differently, having not been spoiled. They don't know about the edit and the splicing and dicing and scripting that is such a part of this show.

Unfortunately, JP has been made out to be something that I simply do not think he is, by some people online. Things get exaggerated and exhanced and words are parsed and analyzed to death. It's almost as though JP has to play the villain to Ben's good guy. This is the dynamic that always really bothers me. Things are broken down in terms of black and white, good versus evil, saint versus devil. It sure makes things more dramatic, but I don't think it is an accurate portrayal of the contestants. No one is all good and no one is all bad. I think the majority of the viewing audience doesn't see the F2 in this histrionic and melodramatic manner.

Others may have a different view, but on the boards where the unspoiled are talking, I have actually seen a shift this week. Ben is actually jumping out in front. His edit this week was very similar to the Chris L edit - I have heard multiple friends who don't read the boards say that they fell in love with Ben this week. In contrast, what has surprised me is how many people are not pointing at JP's jealousy last week, but at the comments he made about his ex this week. They see it as him putting all the blame for the relationship's demise on her shoulders. That, coupled with the jealousy from last week has a number of people calling JP very immature and not ready for a relationship. So while we may know that both JP and Ben are good guys - it actually does appear that to the general viewing audience there has been a shift in the last week and Ben is coming up quick, if not taking JP over for fan favorite. Now, maybe this is all the produer's hope to make Ben the fan favorite in hopes of making him the next Bachelor because Ryan was not as accepted as they hope. I honestly don't know. I just wanted to throw out there for consideration what I have seen on other boards and from people who don't read the boards, but watch the show.

Thank you so much for sharing!! Very interesting insight.

From the polls I have seen Ryan still seems to be the fan favorite, but JP might be in the lead as to who the viewers think will win Ashley's heart. I am trying to remember past polls at this point in the season. I think on People Chris L was leading the poll, but I can't remember if that was for who would Ali picked or based on who the fans loved.

I must say I am a little surprised about all the Ryan love. I did feel bad for him, but in a puppy dog way, not in a want to watch him dates girls on the bachelor way. Yikes.

wachin4fun wrote:I must say I am a little surprised about all the Ryan love. I did feel bad for him, but in a puppy dog way, not in a want to watch him dates girls on the bachelor way. Yikes.

You know I think some of that could be due to the fact Ryan had a great edit when the season started. He was Mr.Sunshine, happy Ashley was the lead, owned a solar company, pretty cute, had a great smile, and got the FIR. So his edit was very positive. Then his edit changed and we started to see why CH said before the season started he rubbed the other guys the wrong way. Now fast forward Ashley let him go on his very first 1-1 date were he seemed to be crying. TPTB fly him all the way to Fiji to gain closure or try and woo her back and he is rejected again. It just screams that he will be the next Bachelor to me. He has a storyline and the original fans that liked him sense the M & G.