Juan Pablo Galavis - Bachelorette 9 Contestant - Spoilers - Discussion

Sprite wrote:I have missed a couple of days and am just catching up to all the "drama" that was manufactured for our viewing pleasure...or in my case, not. Here is my take...sorry for the length.

Andy was not into JPab. I would venture to guess, she knew that a while ago. She is friends with Sharleen who was having similar issues with JPab and I have no doubt that they discussed it.

Andi had been talking to producers telling them her dilemma...just as Sharleen had. Producers have been stroking her, telling her how well she was doing and that she had a good chance at being the next Bette....hence getting her to stay longer so she would be considered.

JPab had been p*ssing off producers by not playing the game...I don't think he even knew the game or how it was played...Silly boy.

Sharleen left. Hometown dates were done. Andi couldn't stay any longer and be considered to be the next star...they don't want her picked (like Emily) or be the rejected, weeping F2. Time for the show. They prep her for the FD...what to ask, highlighting things she had issues with etc.

After the FD, they got her to talk more and more about how it all went, how she was feeling, how he treated her. Asking more and more leading questions, getting her more and more angry at JPab and how he treated her and other women and then "suggest" that nobody has ever dumped the Bachelor after the FD. It would be so dramatic....great for a new, independent, smart Bette....and off she goes! Literally and figuratively. Great drama and set up for next season. Scr*w JPab...we are done with him. Moving on.

While I did not want him as the lead, think he is shallow, self absorbed and never had any intention of finding himself a wife...he isn't that different than most of them. He doesn't like drama...but that is hardly a crime. He wants everyone to be happy and dance! Again, not a crime. He doesn't spend much time conversing and just wants to make out. Fairly typical guy. I do think there was more conversation going on than we were shown...perhaps not scintillating discourse, but typical banter from someone who didn't care all that much and was going through the polite motions.

On the other hand, I do think there were several ladies that he did like...Renee, Sharleen, Nikki and Clare...the latter three, he was also attracted to. I think much of the negative stuff coming now from the other women, comes from those that he really had no interest in and made no effort to get to know. Bit of getting their knickers in a knot because they felt dissed. Andi, on the other hand, was all in lawyer attack/audition mode. (I don't think she slept with him...because she just wasn't into him and knew she was leaving.) She wanted confrontation, she wanted drama and got ticked off that she wasn't getting it. She became just as self centered as JPab...and producers no doubt encouraged her every step of the way...telling her how great she was...just as I'm sure they pumped into his head when they were gearing him up for all of this, before everything went south.

I was not impressed by Andi. In fact, I thought she came off as a self righteous, royal b*tch. Sharleen did what she did without the self righteousness and with class and I believe with genuine feelings for Jpab. I found nothing wrong with what he said. Typical guy. You don't want me. OK. If I was breaking up with someone, I would welcome his behaviour...I wouldn't have to feel guilty for hurting him. But that wasn't enough for her. She wanted her pound of flesh since she felt disrespected because he didn't wait to find out enough about her before sticking his tongue down her throat. Well, then perhaps she shouldn't have let him or dragged him to that kitchen to stick her tongue down his throat or gotten naked on the photo shoot!

For all his faults and as much as I may not be his biggest fan, I do think JPab tried to be as honest as he could be under the circumstances. He kept his make outs to a minimum amount of women. I don't think he enjoyed having to eliminate anyone. Even if he is not the smartest man, I think he was smart enough to see which way the tide was turning and was attempting as much as he could to give them as little to work with as he could. Silly guy just didn't know any better. He thought he had this in the bag...meet and make out with 27 women, travel, get some clothes, some perks, maybe some acting/modelling gigs and a paycheck...producers love me. He forgot that they can build you up, but they can tear you down even faster! Andi should remember that...
.

notarose wrote:JP mentioned "the others" on every date: to Clare when they were discussing the FS invite and to Nikki when they were on the beach.  With Andi he may have used similar wording to the others meaning nothing but stating the fact. I rewatched each scene bit with Clare and Nikki and found it interesting.  Would love to hear someone else's take on it.

Everyone knows x number have to stay every week.  It seems he stated the obvious to Andi like he stated the obvious about there being 3 fantasy dates.  I'm thinking he also told the remaining 2 his intentions. It just seems to me that Andi's scene was more like a CH deliberation gone awry.

As to who JP is, there is a YouTube video of Sharleen giving an interview in German at an opera house.  Watching it shows how easy it is to jump to conclusions about one's intellectual depth.  It was a real eye opener for me.

Sprite wrote:I have missed a couple of days and am just catching up to all the "drama" that was manufactured for our viewing pleasure...or in my case, not. Here is my take...sorry for the length.

Andy was not into JPab. I would venture to guess, she knew that a while ago. She is friends with Sharleen who was having similar issues with JPab and I have no doubt that they discussed it.

Andi had been talking to producers telling them her dilemma...just as Sharleen had. Producers have been stroking her, telling her how well she was doing and that she had a good chance at being the next Bette....hence getting her to stay longer so she would be considered.

JPab had been p*ssing off producers by not playing the game...I don't think he even knew the game or how it was played...Silly boy.

Sharleen left. Hometown dates were done. Andi couldn't stay any longer and be considered to be the next star...they don't want her picked (like Emily) or be the rejected, weeping F2. Time for the show. They prep her for the FD...what to ask, highlighting things she had issues with etc.

After the FD, they got her to talk more and more about how it all went, how she was feeling, how he treated her. Asking more and more leading questions, getting her more and more angry at JPab and how he treated her and other women and then "suggest" that nobody has ever dumped the Bachelor after the FD. It would be so dramatic....great for a new, independent, smart Bette....and off she goes! Literally and figuratively. Great drama and set up for next season. Scr*w JPab...we are done with him. Moving on.

While I did not want him as the lead, think he is shallow, self absorbed and never had any intention of finding himself a wife...he isn't that different than most of them. He doesn't like drama...but that is hardly a crime. He wants everyone to be happy and dance! Again, not a crime. He doesn't spend much time conversing and just wants to make out. Fairly typical guy. I do think there was more conversation going on than we were shown...perhaps not scintillating discourse, but typical banter from someone who didn't care all that much and was going through the polite motions.

On the other hand, I do think there were several ladies that he did like...Renee, Sharleen, Nikki and Clare...the latter three, he was also attracted to. I think much of the negative stuff coming now from the other women, comes from those that he really had no interest in and made no effort to get to know. Bit of getting their knickers in a knot because they felt dissed. Andi, on the other hand, was all in lawyer attack/audition mode. (I don't think she slept with him...because she just wasn't into him and knew she was leaving.) She wanted confrontation, she wanted drama and got ticked off that she wasn't getting it. She became just as self centered as JPab...and producers no doubt encouraged her every step of the way...telling her how great she was...just as I'm sure they pumped into his head when they were gearing him up for all of this, before everything went south.

I was not impressed by Andi. In fact, I thought she came off as a self righteous, royal b*tch. Sharleen did what she did without the self righteousness and with class and I believe with genuine feelings for Jpab. I found nothing wrong with what he said. Typical guy. You don't want me. OK. If I was breaking up with someone, I would welcome his behaviour...I wouldn't have to feel guilty for hurting him. But that wasn't enough for her. She wanted her pound of flesh since she felt disrespected because he didn't wait to find out enough about her before sticking his tongue down her throat. Well, then perhaps she shouldn't have let him or dragged him to that kitchen to stick her tongue down his throat or gotten naked on the photo shoot!

For all his faults and as much as I may not be his biggest fan, I do think JPab tried to be as honest as he could be under the circumstances. He kept his make outs to a minimum amount of women. I don't think he enjoyed having to eliminate anyone. Even if he is not the smartest man, I think he was smart enough to see which way the tide was turning and was attempting as much as he could to give them as little to work with as he could. Silly guy just didn't know any better. He thought he had this in the bag...meet and make out with 27 women, travel, get some clothes, some perks, maybe some acting/modelling gigs and a paycheck...producers love me. He forgot that they can build you up, but they can tear you down even faster! Andi should remember that...
.

iamreal2u wrote:

notarose wrote:JP mentioned "the others" on every date: to Clare when they were discussing the FS invite and to Nikki when they were on the beach.  With Andi he may have used similar wording to the others meaning nothing but stating the fact. I rewatched each scene bit with Clare and Nikki and found it interesting.  Would love to hear someone else's take on it.

Everyone knows x number have to stay every week.  It seems he stated the obvious to Andi like he stated the obvious about there being 3 fantasy dates.  I'm thinking he also told the remaining 2 his intentions. It just seems to me that Andi's scene was more like a CH deliberation gone awry.

As to who JP is, there is a YouTube video of Sharleen giving an interview in German at an opera house.  Watching it shows how easy it is to jump to conclusions about one's intellectual depth.  It was a real eye opener for me.

Interesting statement.  What was your take away?  thx

Something I forgot yesterday in the column that probably didn’t make sense to people. When talking about the whole Andi/Juan Pablo confrontation at the end, I referred to an email from “earlier in the column.” Well, I forgot to include that email. It gave a perspective on the differences between the two that I thought was interesting, yet, I forgot to include it. Here it is:

Hi, Steve.

I’m no fan of Juan Pablo but I think he is being unfairly criticized due to cultural differences.

From an American perspective, he came across as the biggest douche after Andi left and he said that once she started arguing with him, he would not have wanted her to stay. To us, that seems like a minor argument and a total disregard for the reality that couples argue. But South American cultures hold harmony in relationships to be more important than expressing feelings/thoughts in the direct way that Andi did. From his perspective, she was rude.

I know this because I dated a man from Argentina. It’s not Venezuela but I definitely identify some of the same cultural attitudes in Juan Pablo. The guy I dated was given a full ride to Cal-Tech where he got his PhD in physics, works in the field of quantum computing, and is a pilot. I’m sure I don’t have to explain to you the mental giant my ex is compared to Juan Pablo (not hard to manage) but yet I experienced some of the same sort of obliviousness and insistence on repressing feelings in order to maintain harmony.

He prized honesty the same way Juan Pablo does but was more chivalrous in dealing with me than JP is with the girls (i.e. telling Andi she “barely made it.” Not cool in any culture). But if I raised my voice even a little or expressed any kind of insecurity or doubt about our relationship, he immediately withdrew.

You’d also think that being as intelligent as my ex is, he’d be interested in intellectual debate but he abhorred it. He didn’t like being wrong or questioning his beliefs.

Even though I think my ex is a nice guy, I felt completely neglected by him and I see the same kind of pain the in the girls on the show. They don’t understand that their individual feelings are not important in JP’s culture. He’s from a collectivist culture where the focus is on the group harmony over the individual experience. America is an individualist culture where we’re all precious snowflakes whose feelings matter and personal fulfillment is priority number one.

I was also incredibly bored talking to my ex. Actually, he didn’t have much to say most of the time, much like Juan Pablo. This was completely counter-intuitive to me. I’m very well-educated and am constantly engaged in intellectual pursuits. I’m particularly interested in the physical sciences (physics, cosmology, chemistry), so it was completely baffling to me that I could barely carry on a conversation for more than five minutes with a man with a PhD in physics.

And it’s not like he was smarter than me so I was beneath him intellectually. He certainly knew more about his field than I did but seemed to have very little curiosity about the world or the nature of existence which is very common among American intellectuals.

I can also confirm the meeting of the family is not a big deal. It also happens to not be a big deal for me so we meshed on that level at least. He met my family on our second date.

The way JP is constantly “okay” with everything was the same. Everything was always “okay” with my ex. He was okay, he seemed to think the whole world was “okay” and I just needed to stop thinking about it and enjoy it.

After 3 months of dating, I was a neurotic basket case. This was a huge turn off to him which made me even more of a basket case. He finally had a breakthrough after I ended our relationship (4 months was my limit) when he had a mental breakdown at work (not related to our breakup) and realized that not everything in the world was “okay” and apologized to me for judging me so harshly.

I don’t see JP having any kind of breakthrough any time soon but here are some other things that are cultural that are going wrong between him and the girls (and the viewers):

- Not picking up on body language – culturally learned and almost entirely subconscious. JP does not speak our body “language” any better than he speaks English.

- Speaking at inappropriate times or not speaking when he should – also culturally learned and entirely subconscious. We learn to regulate taking turns in conversations through our culture and language.

- Not understanding American phrases like “I can see your wheels spinning”. There may be an equivalent phrase in his native culture/language but that makes no sense to him as a direct translation. For example, in our culture we say “comparing apples to oranges” but in Ukraine they say “comparing frogs to grandmothers”.

I know you think that Nikki is a bitch and JP is an imbecile but, honestly, she is probably the best fit for him BECAUSE she is what many Americans would view as a bitch. She is arrogant and brutally honest. To a Venezuelan man, this probably comes across as confidence and emotional maturity. Vulnerability in the way many American women express it is not prized in South American cultures. I don’t think they’ll last but if he had to pick someone, Nikki is the best fit. I predict they’ll have a huge culture clash at some point in the next couple of months and break up.

The producers made a huge mistake in not fully vetting Juan Pablo AND his culture before casting him. I don’t like JP but I don’t hate him either. I think an American audience just can’t fully relate to him and I am disgusted that the producers are now throwing him under the bus to try an cover their asses for making a poorly though out decision.

I’m not saying that ALL of JP’s behavior can be written off as cultural differences but A LOT of it can.

On a side note, Andi totally won me over the way she dealt with Juan Pablo tonight (as did her father last night). I was thinking I would be bored watching her as the bachelorette but she turned it around for me and I’m looking forward to her season.

notarose wrote:

iamreal2u wrote:

notarose wrote:JP mentioned "the others" on every date: to Clare when they were discussing the FS invite and to Nikki when they were on the beach.  With Andi he may have used similar wording to the others meaning nothing but stating the fact. I rewatched each scene bit with Clare and Nikki and found it interesting.  Would love to hear someone else's take on it.

Everyone knows x number have to stay every week.  It seems he stated the obvious to Andi like he stated the obvious about there being 3 fantasy dates.  I'm thinking he also told the remaining 2 his intentions. It just seems to me that Andi's scene was more like a CH deliberation gone awry.

As to who JP is, there is a YouTube video of Sharleen giving an interview in German at an opera house.  Watching it shows how easy it is to jump to conclusions about one's intellectual depth.  It was a real eye opener for me.

Interesting statement.  What was your take away?  thx

Found it http://vimeo.com/63251779
I think her broad arm/hand gestures were not there when she spoke English on the show.  She didn't know the German word for sowing which someone could mock her for .... Like bolt or any other word someone wants to make fun of.  I take away that she always understood how intelligence can be underestimated in one's second language so I never thought she felt JP was less intelligent.  Cerebral can mean many things.

Mirzam wrote:An interesting perspective from an email to RS which he posted on his blog today:

Something I forgot yesterday in the column that probably didn’t make sense to people. When talking about the whole Andi/Juan Pablo confrontation at the end, I referred to an email from “earlier in the column.” Well, I forgot to include that email. It gave a perspective on the differences between the two that I thought was interesting, yet, I forgot to include it. Here it is:

Hi, Steve.

I’m no fan of Juan Pablo but I think he is being unfairly criticized due to cultural differences.

From an American perspective, he came across as the biggest douche after Andi left and he said that once she started arguing with him, he would not have wanted her to stay. To us, that seems like a minor argument and a total disregard for the reality that couples argue. But South American cultures hold harmony in relationships to be more important than expressing feelings/thoughts in the direct way that Andi did. From his perspective, she was rude.

I know this because I dated a man from Argentina. It’s not Venezuela but I definitely identify some of the same cultural attitudes in Juan Pablo. The guy I dated was given a full ride to Cal-Tech where he got his PhD in physics, works in the field of quantum computing, and is a pilot. I’m sure I don’t have to explain to you the mental giant my ex is compared to Juan Pablo (not hard to manage) but yet I experienced some of the same sort of obliviousness and insistence on repressing feelings in order to maintain harmony.

He prized honesty the same way Juan Pablo does but was more chivalrous in dealing with me than JP is with the girls (i.e. telling Andi she “barely made it.” Not cool in any culture). But if I raised my voice even a little or expressed any kind of insecurity or doubt about our relationship, he immediately withdrew.

You’d also think that being as intelligent as my ex is, he’d be interested in intellectual debate but he abhorred it. He didn’t like being wrong or questioning his beliefs.

Even though I think my ex is a nice guy, I felt completely neglected by him and I see the same kind of pain the in the girls on the show. They don’t understand that their individual feelings are not important in JP’s culture. He’s from a collectivist culture where the focus is on the group harmony over the individual experience. America is an individualist culture where we’re all precious snowflakes whose feelings matter and personal fulfillment is priority number one.

I was also incredibly bored talking to my ex. Actually, he didn’t have much to say most of the time, much like Juan Pablo. This was completely counter-intuitive to me. I’m very well-educated and am constantly engaged in intellectual pursuits. I’m particularly interested in the physical sciences (physics, cosmology, chemistry), so it was completely baffling to me that I could barely carry on a conversation for more than five minutes with a man with a PhD in physics.

And it’s not like he was smarter than me so I was beneath him intellectually. He certainly knew more about his field than I did but seemed to have very little curiosity about the world or the nature of existence which is very common among American intellectuals.

I can also confirm the meeting of the family is not a big deal. It also happens to not be a big deal for me so we meshed on that level at least. He met my family on our second date.

The way JP is constantly “okay” with everything was the same. Everything was always “okay” with my ex. He was okay, he seemed to think the whole world was “okay” and I just needed to stop thinking about it and enjoy it.

After 3 months of dating, I was a neurotic basket case. This was a huge turn off to him which made me even more of a basket case. He finally had a breakthrough after I ended our relationship (4 months was my limit) when he had a mental breakdown at work (not related to our breakup) and realized that not everything in the world was “okay” and apologized to me for judging me so harshly.

I don’t see JP having any kind of breakthrough any time soon but here are some other things that are cultural that are going wrong between him and the girls (and the viewers):

- Not picking up on body language – culturally learned and almost entirely subconscious. JP does not speak our body “language” any better than he speaks English.

- Speaking at inappropriate times or not speaking when he should – also culturally learned and entirely subconscious. We learn to regulate taking turns in conversations through our culture and language.

- Not understanding American phrases like “I can see your wheels spinning”. There may be an equivalent phrase in his native culture/language but that makes no sense to him as a direct translation. For example, in our culture we say “comparing apples to oranges” but in Ukraine they say “comparing frogs to grandmothers”.

I know you think that Nikki is a bitch and JP is an imbecile but, honestly, she is probably the best fit for him BECAUSE she is what many Americans would view as a bitch. She is arrogant and brutally honest. To a Venezuelan man, this probably comes across as confidence and emotional maturity. Vulnerability in the way many American women express it is not prized in South American cultures. I don’t think they’ll last but if he had to pick someone, Nikki is the best fit. I predict they’ll have a huge culture clash at some point in the next couple of months and break up.

The producers made a huge mistake in not fully vetting Juan Pablo AND his culture before casting him. I don’t like JP but I don’t hate him either. I think an American audience just can’t fully relate to him and I am disgusted that the producers are now throwing him under the bus to try an cover their asses for making a poorly though out decision.

I’m not saying that ALL of JP’s behavior can be written off as cultural differences but A LOT of it can.

On a side note, Andi totally won me over the way she dealt with Juan Pablo tonight (as did her father last night). I was thinking I would be bored watching her as the bachelorette but she turned it around for me and I’m looking forward to her season.

http://realitysteve.com/2014/02/27/the-bachelor-juan-pablo-spoilers-reader-emails-4/#piZJFwYmYXsAZtfl.99