Re: The Bachelor 17 - General Discussion - Thread #1

[charriotoffire]

In fact there was at least one tabloid article that claimed Ashley had sex with Ben in the fantasy suite (riiight), and JP & Ashley broke up while her season was airing because he was so jealous. (Recently the same tabloid claimed that Sean and Cat broke up while his season was airing, because Cat was jealous of what she saw on TV. Same lies, different names.)

JP was accused of drinking too much in clubs and hitting on women too. The tabloid quoted an anonymous woman warning Ashley about JP trying to pick her up. Uh huh.

Sometimes the tabloids are right, either because they get a legit tip OR the writer claimed a Bach couple was doomed. Looking at the track record of this show, it doesn't take much imagination to make up a story about a Bach couple on the rocks. 1-3 months later they break up and it looks like you had a legit source when really you just fabricated a story about JP trying to pick up a woman. Oops, except JP & Ash didn't break up. If they had called it quits there would be fans to this day repeating that tabloid story like it was gospel and hating JP for it.

I think most of the tabloid gossip is written to give readers a thrill. They cover their bases by printing happy couple stories and unhappy couple stories.

tl;dr: If Sean and Cat break up it doesn't mean the tabloids were working with facts or real insider sources. IMO, it only proves they know the odds of these couples lasting longer than 6 months.

The tabloids MO is to throw crap again and again until something sticks. With JP and Ashley its so many different things but nothing stuck. For one thing they were not on the limelight for a time before their wedding so people can just dismiss it as utter crap. But here with SeanCat, they have seen a crack somewhere and they are beating on it hard.

Even without the tabloids, common sense say that this couple is skating on thin ice. He cant give her physical intimacy (its always awkward when the woman wants it and the man deprives her of it) , he's always away, etc etc.. on top of what already was a flimsy foundation, she was chosen last minute, they are very different on paper, very different cultural and familial background etc etc.
If its not for the engagement that was so perfect, I dont think they have much anything to hold on as foundation tbh. What worked for Jash, Jason-Molly, Trista -Ryan are the MEN who have put their money where their mouth is. Jason, Ryan and JP are more action less words kind of men and they share the reins with their wives/gf at that time. Its just too many minuses for Sean right now to be a bf/ husband even. Its like he gets whatever he wants and his way of appeasing Catherine is a grand display of 'love' for a minute or two then go back again to whatever his doing for himself.

[Cari]

In fact there was at least one tabloid article that claimed Ashley had sex with Ben in the fantasy suite (riiight), and JP & Ashley broke up while her season was airing because he was so jealous. (Recently the same tabloid claimed that Sean and Cat broke up while his season was airing, because Cat was jealous of what she saw on TV. Same lies, different names.)

JP was accused of drinking too much in clubs and hitting on women too. The tabloid quoted an anonymous woman warning Ashley about JP trying to pick her up. Uh huh.

Sometimes the tabloids are right, either because they get a legit tip OR the writer claimed a Bach couple was doomed. Looking at the track record of this show, it doesn't take much imagination to make up a story about a Bach couple on the rocks. 1-3 months later they break up and it looks like you had a legit source when really you just fabricated a story about JP trying to pick up a woman. Oops, except JP & Ash didn't break up. If they had called it quits there would be fans to this day repeating that tabloid story like it was gospel and hating JP for it.

I think most of the tabloid gossip is written to give readers a thrill. They cover their bases by printing happy couple stories and unhappy couple stories.

tl;dr: If Sean and Cat break up it doesn't mean the tabloids were working with facts or real insider sources. IMO, it only proves they know the odds of these couples lasting longer than 6 months.

The tabloids MO is to throw crap again and again until something sticks. With JP and Ashley its so many different things but nothing stuck. For one thing they were not on the limelight for a time before their wedding so people can just dismiss it as utter crap. But here with SeanCat, they have seen a crack somewhere and they are beating on it hard.

Even without the tabloids, common sense say that this couple is skating on thin ice. He cant give her physical intimacy (its always awkward when the woman wants it and the man deprives her of it) , he's always away, etc etc.. on top of what already was a flimsy foundation, she was chosen last minute, they are very different on paper, very different cultural and familial background etc etc.
If its not for the engagement that was so perfect, I dont think they have much anything to hold on as foundation tbh. What worked for Jash, Jason-Molly, Trista -Ryan are the MEN who have put their money where their mouth is. Jason, Ryan and JP are more action less words kind of men and they share the reins with their wives/gf at that time. Its just too many minuses for Sean right now to be a bf/ husband even. Its like he gets whatever he wants and his way of appeasing Catherine is a grand display of 'love' for a minute or two then go back again to whatever his doing for himself.

Did I understand ithe bolded right? What you're saying is the tabloids have seen the crack/s as fact or just speculation? In the same way as you're speculating the possible reasons of SeanCat's downfall?

[Guest]

The tabloids MO is to throw crap again and again until something sticks. With JP and Ashley its so many different things but nothing stuck. For one thing they were not on the limelight for a time before their wedding so people can just dismiss it as utter crap. But here with SeanCat, they have seen a crack somewhere and they are beating on it hard.

Even without the tabloids, common sense say that this couple is skating on thin ice. He cant give her physical intimacy (its always awkward when the woman wants it and the man deprives her of it) , he's always away, etc etc.. on top of what already was a flimsy foundation, she was chosen last minute, they are very different on paper, very different cultural and familial background etc etc.
If its not for the engagement that was so perfect, I dont think they have much anything to hold on as foundation tbh. What worked for Jash, Jason-Molly, Trista -Ryan are the MEN who have put their money where their mouth is. Jason, Ryan and JP are more action less words kind of men and they share the reins with their wives/gf at that time. Its just too many minuses for Sean right now to be a bf/ husband even. Its like he gets whatever he wants and his way of appeasing Catherine is a grand display of 'love' for a minute or two then go back again to whatever his doing for himself.

Ashley/JP attended events, together and separately (Ash by herself) before they got married. Ashley tweeted about some of those events and there are red carpet photos of them attending those events. So, they had some media interaction. They weren't completely cut off from media. Also, in a recent interview (google it, she offers advice to Sean/Cat), Ashely said she would have done DWTS had she been asked, just like Sean after his season ended.

He cant give her physical intimacy (its always awkward when the woman wants it and the man deprives her of it)

How do you know she feels deprived? Is it because you're choosing to believe the tabloid story over Cat's own words? She touched upon it during her kiss Toronto radio interview and she seemed pretty happy. You can have a romantic relationship without having sex.

What worked for Jash, Jason-Molly, Trista -Ryan are the MEN who have put their money where their mouth is.

I'm glad people like Jason now, I remember when they hated him (I always thought the hate was ridiculous). I remember when fans said he was jobless (wasn't really an insurance salesman) and had issues with his ex-wife (she paid him child support bc he couldn't keep a job). This doesn't really sound like someone who put their money where their mouth is. Or...maybe we shouldn't believe everything we read/hear about these people.

I find it interesting that it's okay to believe the tabloids for one couple but not the others. I think Sean/Cat have as good a shot as any other past couple. They're no different.

[charriotoffire]

In fact there was at least one tabloid article that claimed Ashley had sex with Ben in the fantasy suite (riiight), and JP & Ashley broke up while her season was airing because he was so jealous. (Recently the same tabloid claimed that Sean and Cat broke up while his season was airing, because Cat was jealous of what she saw on TV. Same lies, different names.)

JP was accused of drinking too much in clubs and hitting on women too. The tabloid quoted an anonymous woman warning Ashley about JP trying to pick her up. Uh huh.

Sometimes the tabloids are right, either because they get a legit tip OR the writer claimed a Bach couple was doomed. Looking at the track record of this show, it doesn't take much imagination to make up a story about a Bach couple on the rocks. 1-3 months later they break up and it looks like you had a legit source when really you just fabricated a story about JP trying to pick up a woman. Oops, except JP & Ash didn't break up. If they had called it quits there would be fans to this day repeating that tabloid story like it was gospel and hating JP for it.

I think most of the tabloid gossip is written to give readers a thrill. They cover their bases by printing happy couple stories and unhappy couple stories.

tl;dr: If Sean and Cat break up it doesn't mean the tabloids were working with facts or real insider sources. IMO, it only proves they know the odds of these couples lasting longer than 6 months.

The tabloids MO is to throw crap again and again until something sticks. With JP and Ashley its so many different things but nothing stuck. For one thing they were not on the limelight for a time before their wedding so people can just dismiss it as utter crap. But here with SeanCat, they have seen a crack somewhere and they are beating on it hard.

Even without the tabloids, common sense say that this couple is skating on thin ice. He cant give her physical intimacy (its always awkward when the woman wants it and the man deprives her of it) , he's always away, etc etc.. on top of what already was a flimsy foundation, she was chosen last minute, they are very different on paper, very different cultural and familial background etc etc.
If its not for the engagement that was so perfect, I dont think they have much anything to hold on as foundation tbh. What worked for Jash, Jason-Molly, Trista -Ryan are the MEN who have put their money where their mouth is. Jason, Ryan and JP are more action less words kind of men and they share the reins with their wives/gf at that time. Its just too many minuses for Sean right now to be a bf/ husband even. Its like he gets whatever he wants and his way of appeasing Catherine is a grand display of 'love' for a minute or two then go back again to whatever his doing for himself.

Did I understand ithe bolded right? What you're saying is the tabloids have seen the crack/s as fact or just speculation? In the same way as you're speculating the possible reasons of SeanCat's downfall?

The tabloids realize that their fans are worrying because they have basis for worrying. The more the fans retweet and ask the couple about it the more it will be on twitter and media. I for one do not follow them anymore, so I do not retweet it cause I dont worry about them. Its the fanatics who make these tabloids sell, not the cynical ones.

In the case of Jash, the versions of whatever rumor they have at the moment, are changing constantly. One time its about him being hot headed, then he is a playboy, then he is not ready for marriage etc etc. Its just doesnt make sense to the fans so it doesnt stick. I didnt worry at all for Ashley and JP. JP was in love with Ashley and he worked hard for it to earn it.



Im probably not speculating, Im more like inferencing. If we agree on certain premises we might agree that this relationship was built on a very very flimsy foundation. He didnt work hard to get the affection of Catherine, which a man should experience to treasure a woman. Its part of their make up. A man should give up something, sacrifice something to value a woman's worth. Being a last minute choice is not something a fairy tale wedding begins with..
And given that, the man in the relationship chose to risk everything for a chance to have $150,000+++ paycheck from DWTS. I totally do not respect him 'whoring' this relationship for money and fame. You said, you want love you got it, go away and have a free wedding.

If we do not agree that a solid foundation is needed to be established before a wedding, we will just debate about tabloids, what he said, did etc etc.


And just to comment about the' Portugal theory' the 'hotel reviewer' tweet was made before 'My life is full of surprises' tweet. She was not talking about a hotel, because at this point there was no trip yet. She was sulking (she needed a justification for being like the much abused hotel reviewer), then Sean bribed her (lol speculation too, since people jumped on 'she's planning her wedding in New York of all places) then suddenly she was on a trip with Lesley.. unplanned! --(My life is full of surprises tweet)

Not predicting their relationship downfall, Im saying at this point they really have no relationship but an extention of a showmance. She's way happier with Leslie I think, than she's ever been with Sean at this point.

[Guest]

Summary for what I wanted to post .

The model that is working for Bachelor/ette is that the man gives 200% the woman 100%. Its the winning formula. The man gives of himself even during filming. He knows there is no confusion, he knows he wants her and nothing but.


------------------------

[Cari]

I understand we have different perspective when we're looking at the same thing hence drawing conclusions differently, too. My/Your observations/speculations/inferencing might be true BUT at the end of the day, we are not with these Bach couples 24/7. We do not know how they handle what life throws them. How they balance their time together. We cannot state that our observations from them on the show, videos, pics as truth/s. We can only guess. Whatever we see and "conclude" will still fall as "speculation", not facts.

[Kashathediva]

Wasn't there someone who asked on the JASH's thread about Ash-Bentley recently? She rewatched Ash's season and she thought Ash was really into Bentley. Uhhuh, a sincere observation even after Jash got married. These stuff including Ash still into Ben, JP's "temper", seeing his ex and other "speculations" are Jash and their fans like me had to deal with! As I've been saying all the time, it's normal to be skeptic about a Bach couple. Who thought Ali and Roberto would break up? I'm just comforted Jash got married despite the doomsayers say they wouldn't. SeanCat? Maybe they will make it, maybe they won't. So far, what am seeing is what I've seen with Jash. I don't see any "forced" display of affection. Imma enjoy them and hope they make it just as I did Jash after their season.

Jash and Sean/Catherine can't be compared cause JP is totally totally devoted to Ashley. No DWTS, no confusion between F1/F2, no family in his part that doubts her, she doesnt need to uproot, no hydroxycut etc etc. Ashley completely got JP eating off of her hand. The reason why these tabloid rumors are gaining ground is because fans can see how these things are possible. With Jash, there are no 'They have Broken Up' rumors. There are no 'He's a Swellhead, Diva etc".

And I didn't see Ali and Roberto lasting in any way shape or form. They were in lust with each other I can see it, but its not stuff for happily ever after.

I guess what really makes the tabloid rumors stick is that the relationship is too unbalanced, too rushed and sometimes over the top IMHO. Unbalanced cause he is not giving up anything, while she gave up all. Her identity, her job, her past etc etc. Sean is either over the top in his actions or in situations where he is not conscious, its not there totally, the forgetting to open Catherine's door and driving off before her getting her seatbelt on come to mind. He looks like he is spreading himself thin.

And the total lack of physical passion, is just hard to imagine. This is usually the stage where you can't stand not being with your intended, waking up next to her in the morning, looking at her eyes, lounging around in your underwear watchhing tv and making love again. Haha.. sorry Im getting carried away. Sean wont even give her that. He might not believe in it, but it doesnt mean she doesn't long for it. Do you guys know how it feels to NOT get any from the man that you love and see him with a hot blonde being seduced on the dance floor? If you know how it feels tell me. Cause I dont know how that feels, all I know is that must SUCK.

JP and Ashley were totally in it for the relationship. Because he had no other options, JP said he is not the winner he is the lucky one or something like that. Sean is not a JP not by a mile.

I am not sure i would be able to express myself well. So for those who will understand my pov, help me out! Haha

You're saying the tabloid writers of Jash (who "exposed" JP's ex, temper, et al) put out rubbish news about them and they just invented what they wrote while these SAME tabloid writers (who wrote about SeanCat's "rocky relationship", divaness, etc) exposed "truth" about SeanCat because they might have "credible sources"? All because Sean is in DWTS and "haven't given up anything for Cat"? Because of this premise, I should not believe what they wrote about Jash (I did not at all!) while I should believe their news on SeanCat? Hmmmm....

it just so happens, Jash was part of the successful couples. BUT before they got married, skeptics have ripped JP's "temper" based on how he was edited. A skeptic/tabloid writer can actually write he's a diva (not Sean!) just based on "what we've seen". A skeptic would have taken JP's tweet as complaining when he tweeted how he had to commute 1 1/2 hours to work in NYC (ash had postgrad studies and they relocated) where he said in 5 minutes he's at work.(he lived in New York for 9 years, I think!) If I wanted to speculate on their status, if I am a skeptic (which I was not), I would say JP who gave up a lot is not happy. I would have taken a pic of him commuting and speculate, "Look! JP is not happy! He's frowning!" (He had pics waiting for a train before). Again, all I am saying is, every couple that comes out will be subject to scrutiny. We will all speculate their shelf life. The same speculation we have are the same speculation of these tabloid writers (they might be lurking! and turn them into cover stories!

Speculating on ANY couple is okay (that is why this forum is great!) but if we will take these same speculations as gospel truth, we have no difference with these tabloid writers.

P.S.

Ash had a backlash because of her FRC with Ben. Jimmy Kimmel even teased her (in front of JP!) because many thought she led on Ben particularly on her LCD. So it happens every season re F1/F2.

About Jash:
One of the things helping to discount the possible skeptic or negative is there were actual posters/members here who had personal dealings with the couple to flush this out and knew otherwise. So this was a huge factor in dealing with the crazy tabs or negative hysteria.
This couple moved in with each other and dealt with real life immed much like Trista/Ryan. Kinda hard to mask anything not real when your living the real moment by moment. But I digress---I know someone personally quite well who has met this couple and in my mind there were never any issues this wasn't a real couple dating vs a tv fabricated bubble couple.

[Beeleever]

And that's what this thread is about. General Discussion. I am enjoying my morning cuppa jo reading all your perceptions. At the end of the day, only Sean and Cat have the facts. The rest is just speculation. Thanks for showing respect as we all speculate!

[docnash14]

Wasn't there someone who asked on the JASH's thread about Ash-Bentley recently? She rewatched Ash's season and she thought Ash was really into Bentley. Uhhuh, a sincere observation even after Jash got married. These stuff including Ash still into Ben, JP's "temper", seeing his ex and other "speculations" are Jash and their fans like me had to deal with! As I've been saying all the time, it's normal to be skeptic about a Bach couple. Who thought Ali and Roberto would break up? I'm just comforted Jash got married despite the doomsayers say they wouldn't. SeanCat? Maybe they will make it, maybe they won't. So far, what am seeing is what I've seen with Jash. I don't see any "forced" display of affection. Imma enjoy them and hope they make it just as I did Jash after their season.

Jash and Sean/Catherine can't be compared cause JP is totally totally devoted to Ashley. No DWTS, no confusion between F1/F2, no family in his part that doubts her, she doesnt need to uproot, no hydroxycut etc etc. Ashley completely got JP eating off of her hand. The reason why these tabloid rumors are gaining ground is because fans can see how these things are possible. With Jash, there are no 'They have Broken Up' rumors. There are no 'He's a Swellhead, Diva etc".

And I didn't see Ali and Roberto lasting in any way shape or form. They were in lust with each other I can see it, but its not stuff for happily ever after.

I guess what really makes the tabloid rumors stick is that the relationship is too unbalanced, too rushed and sometimes over the top IMHO. Unbalanced cause he is not giving up anything, while she gave up all. Her identity, her job, her past etc etc. Sean is either over the top in his actions or in situations where he is not conscious, its not there totally, the forgetting to open Catherine's door and driving off before her getting her seatbelt on come to mind. He looks like he is spreading himself thin.

And the total lack of physical passion, is just hard to imagine. This is usually the stage where you can't stand not being with your intended, waking up next to her in the morning, looking at her eyes, lounging around in your underwear watchhing tv and making love again. Haha.. sorry Im getting carried away. Sean wont even give her that. He might not believe in it, but it doesnt mean she doesn't long for it. Do you guys know how it feels to NOT get any from the man that you love and see him with a hot blonde being seduced on the dance floor? If you know how it feels tell me. Cause I dont know how that feels, all I know is that must SUCK.

JP and Ashley were totally in it for the relationship. Because he had no other options, JP said he is not the winner he is the lucky one or something like that. Sean is not a JP not by a mile.

In my opinion, choosing to remain celibate does not equate with a total lack of physical passion.

[ImeldaMarcos]

Sean chose Cat and still does. Cat chose Sean and still does...until they don't or are married. I hope everyone eventually has fulfilling sex and emotional intimacy. Back to your regularly scheduled program.

[Gingsterose]

And that's what this thread is about. General Discussion. I am enjoying my morning cuppa jo reading all your perceptions. At the end of the day, only Sean and Cat have the facts. The rest is just speculation. Thanks for showing respect as we all speculate!

I like reading the different points of views/debate. I enjoy the comparison to previous couple(though small in number) to SeanCat's present predicament. If these two can make it, they will be fine. Right now might be a true test if they will make it to the altar or go their separate ways. They will be fine either way, especially Cat.

I haven't seen Lesley and Cat together during the show since I was late watching (started from the hometown date only-the connection was obvious then-reason I got sucked in after a long lost of interest with the B/Bette shows). Base on what I have read here from their twitters and everything else, this friendship is solid.

[ceebeedeedum]

I believe Catherine and Lesley's friendship will last much longer than her relationship with Sean.

[Sponsored content]