Re: The Bachelorette 9 - Contestants - Speculation/Spoilers - Discussion

by Guest Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:08 am

2observe wrote:
veg_out wrote:Regarding the conflict, it's central to any narrative structure. There's always some obstacle, either internal or external, against which the protagonist must endure or overcome. The resolution results in some mental/emotional breakthrough, accomplishment, or happy ending (usually) unless it's a tragedy.

Des' obstacle as previously stated is loving men who don't equally love her in return. Brooks at the moment will play right into Des' central conflict. Ideally, the resolution to Brooks' personal conflict would be for him to lean into his feelings for her and not leave her; by leaving her, it opens the door for Des' conflict to be resolved by choosing one of the guys who has stuck by her through it all and loved her probably more than she loved them. But with Brooks' leaving, I imagine that the support of these men will deepen her feelings for them.

Regarding the lack of conflict for Drew and Chris', it's definitely there and it's with Desiree. She is in love with Brooks but both of these men think that their relationship to her is unlike any other. Listen to their PIs on their HTDs. When Brooks leaves and she falls apart, their conflict will rise: do they stay and try with someone who obviously was in love with someone else? Their conflicts resolve at the FRC.

It could be argued that Brooks' conflict will resolve when he leaves. It's Des' conflict that doesn't resolve until the FRC, and if Brooks returns, it's not a guarantee that he's the resolution to her conflict.

Why do I think she'll take him back if he returns? Because she loves him. Because of the way she was with James. Because she's big on chemistry and sparks. But her tweet about dating advice makes a good case for Des closing the door that Brooks might walk out of and not looking back but choosing Drew or Chris.
Great post Veg, And in the end Des' does not overcome her obstacle by breaking her pattern.

i don't think you meant to add the "not" in there 2observe. of course, as someone who thinks she picks brooks i rather like your freudian slip. giggling

by Kashathediva Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:30 am

What comes to mind personally is "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me." I try to adhere to the two strikes policy myself. Good few posts to wake up to!

by Guest Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:56 am

veg_out wrote:Regarding the conflict, it's central to any narrative structure. There's always some obstacle, either internal or external, against which the protagonist must endure or overcome. The resolution results in some mental/emotional breakthrough, accomplishment, or happy ending (usually) unless it's a tragedy.

Des' obstacle as previously stated is loving men who don't equally love her in return. Brooks at the moment will play right into Des' central conflict. Ideally, the resolution to Brooks' personal conflict would be for him to lean into his feelings for her and not leave her; by leaving her, it opens the door for Des' conflict to be resolved by choosing one of the guys who has stuck by her through it all and loved her probably more than she loved them. But with Brooks' leaving, I imagine that the support of these men will deepen her feelings for them.

Regarding the lack of conflict for Drew and Chris', it's definitely there and it's with Desiree. She is in love with Brooks but both of these men think that their relationship to her is unlike any other. Listen to their PIs on their HTDs. When Brooks leaves and she falls apart, their conflict will rise: do they stay and try with someone who obviously was in love with someone else? Their conflicts resolve at the FRC.

It could be argued that Brooks' conflict will resolve when he leaves. It's Des' conflict that doesn't resolve until the FRC, and if Brooks returns, it's not a guarantee that he's the resolution to her conflict.

Why do I think she'll take him back if he returns? Because she loves him. Because of the way she was with James. Because she's big on chemistry and sparks. But her tweet about dating advice makes a good case for Des closing the door that Brooks might walk out of and not looking back but choosing Drew or Chris.

What did her tweet say?

by Guest Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:10 am

grace8136 wrote:
veg_out wrote:Regarding the conflict, it's central to any narrative structure. There's always some obstacle, either internal or external, against which the protagonist must endure or overcome. The resolution results in some mental/emotional breakthrough, accomplishment, or happy ending (usually) unless it's a tragedy.

Des' obstacle as previously stated is loving men who don't equally love her in return. Brooks at the moment will play right into Des' central conflict. Ideally, the resolution to Brooks' personal conflict would be for him to lean into his feelings for her and not leave her; by leaving her, it opens the door for Des' conflict to be resolved by choosing one of the guys who has stuck by her through it all and loved her probably more than she loved them. But with Brooks' leaving, I imagine that the support of these men will deepen her feelings for them.

Regarding the lack of conflict for Drew and Chris', it's definitely there and it's with Desiree. She is in love with Brooks but both of these men think that their relationship to her is unlike any other. Listen to their PIs on their HTDs. When Brooks leaves and she falls apart, their conflict will rise: do they stay and try with someone who obviously was in love with someone else? Their conflicts resolve at the FRC.

It could be argued that Brooks' conflict will resolve when he leaves. It's Des' conflict that doesn't resolve until the FRC, and if Brooks returns, it's not a guarantee that he's the resolution to her conflict.

Why do I think she'll take him back if he returns? Because she loves him. Because of the way she was with James. Because she's big on chemistry and sparks. But her tweet about dating advice makes a good case for Des closing the door that Brooks might walk out of and not looking back but choosing Drew or Chris.

What did her tweet say?

hi grace!! here i come for your rescue... giggling

"[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: Best dating advice? I'm 18 w/o bf" Love & be yourself, know your worth, let him pursue, dont be desperate, confidence is key.
— Desiree Hartsock (@DesHartsock) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by nd4reality Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:12 am

murasaki1393 wrote:
grace8136 wrote:
veg_out wrote:Regarding the conflict, it's central to any narrative structure. There's always some obstacle, either internal or external, against which the protagonist must endure or overcome. The resolution results in some mental/emotional breakthrough, accomplishment, or happy ending (usually) unless it's a tragedy.

Des' obstacle as previously stated is loving men who don't equally love her in return. Brooks at the moment will play right into Des' central conflict. Ideally, the resolution to Brooks' personal conflict would be for him to lean into his feelings for her and not leave her; by leaving her, it opens the door for Des' conflict to be resolved by choosing one of the guys who has stuck by her through it all and loved her probably more than she loved them. But with Brooks' leaving, I imagine that the support of these men will deepen her feelings for them.

Regarding the lack of conflict for Drew and Chris', it's definitely there and it's with Desiree. She is in love with Brooks but both of these men think that their relationship to her is unlike any other. Listen to their PIs on their HTDs. When Brooks leaves and she falls apart, their conflict will rise: do they stay and try with someone who obviously was in love with someone else? Their conflicts resolve at the FRC.

It could be argued that Brooks' conflict will resolve when he leaves. It's Des' conflict that doesn't resolve until the FRC, and if Brooks returns, it's not a guarantee that he's the resolution to her conflict.

Why do I think she'll take him back if he returns? Because she loves him. Because of the way she was with James. Because she's big on chemistry and sparks. But her tweet about dating advice makes a good case for Des closing the door that Brooks might walk out of and not looking back but choosing Drew or Chris.

What did her tweet say?

hi grace!! here i come for your rescue...

"[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: Best dating advice? I'm 18 w/o bf" Love & be yourself, know your worth, let him pursue, dont be desperate, confidence is key.
— Desiree Hartsock (@DesHartsock) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

t4p muras.
That is a bit :shocked!:

by albean99 Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:27 am

Let him pursue? That's interesting. Either Brooks comes crawling back or Des chooses one of the guys who were pursuing her. Okay so it doesn't help us. :laughingoutlou

Chris & Drew both have built in conflicts as Vege stated perfectly. Will they be able to overcome not only their feelings about Des being so upset by Brooks leaving but can they be anything other than a default f1? I think we're seeing Drew & Des talk about it but not sure if she does with Chris. This is the first time that we've seen a lead talk about being in love with someone prior to the finale so it's all uncharted waters. I'm not sure how it's going to come across if Des doesn't veer away from her feelings for Brooks after he leaves although it looks like she does in the LCD with Chris. We're not 100% about which date is which for Drew - stay tuned. :Nod:

by nd4reality Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:36 am

albean99 wrote:Let him pursue? That's interesting. Either Brooks comes crawling back or Des chooses one of the guys who were pursuing her. Okay so it doesn't help us. :laughingoutlou

Chris & Drew both have built in conflicts as Vege stated perfectly. Will they be able to overcome not only their feelings about Des being so upset by Brooks leaving but can they be anything other than a default f1? I think we're seeing Drew & Des talk about it but not sure if she does with Chris. This is the first time that we've seen a lead talk about being in love with someone prior to the finale so it's all uncharted waters. I'm not sure how it's going to come across if Des doesn't veer away from her feelings for Brooks after he leaves although it looks like she does in the LCD with Chris. We're not 100% about which date is which for Drew - stay tuned. :Nod:

Stay tuned :Smiley:

Yes we have already seen some sort of deep discussion going on with Drew. Be it at the FD or the LCD it really doesn't matter. What is important is that the subject is being discussed by the lead and one of the contestants. Perhaps she does so with the other - we don't know at this point.

My thinking is that if she had her door closed with these men she would not have bothered to delve into it at all. She would have brushed it off immediately. It seems like she didn't.
My thinking that the one way she gets closure from the Brooks (IF he is not F1 btw) and make her journey credible is if she is shown to realise her own situation and close the door to him at some point. I said this on another thread but if he is the one that gives her the 'I have fun with you BUT speach' she will be dumped and look like a doormat if she takes him back. As well, if she actually picks someone else she will look like she picked a default and will have to deal with the fans either way.

by latergator Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:43 am

murasaki1393 wrote:

hi grace!! here i come for your rescue...

"[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: Best dating advice? I'm 18 w/o bf" Love & be yourself, know your worth, let him pursue, dont be desperate, confidence is key.
— Desiree Hartsock (@DesHartsock) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

above cut for bandwidth...

Des' tweet to @iAmMeghann was good advice. all season she has been letting the guys pursue her, being thrilled with their professions of love, some without even having a date giggling

except for Brooks... he has told her that their time together is wonderful, but when they are apart and he has time to stew it gets hard. she has said she understands that, she was in that same spot when she was on the bachelor. she has stated that Brooks has not said "I love you" as the others have, but she didn't need that from him and she does not need to pressure Brooks for those words... she knows how he feels by the way he is around her. tptb left that in last week for a reason.

in my opinion, their breakdown this next week will involve her wanting to hear the words (caving into the pressure from CH and tptb) and Brooks trying to walk around them until he is absolutely sure of them. she went from F4 rc saying she didn't need the words to know how Brooks felt to some sort of breakdown. thus when she tells this person "be yourself, know your worth, let him pursue, dont be desperate, confidence is key." it tells me that she means don't give into pressure; wait for that person you love to come into his own understanding; stand your ground for what you know is your truth, don't be swayed by the immediate gratification of hearing the words only and not looking at the big picture; and be firm in what you know is right and true. I believe the comment points to her and Brooks.

I have no idea if this is indeed what Des meant by that tweet, but this is how I saw it.

by Buckeye_Fan Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:57 am

Kashathediva wrote:What comes to mind personally is "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me." I try to adhere to the two strikes policy myself. Good few posts to wake up to!

You and I are on the same page. I agree with everything you are posting!

People are saying that Brooks is cautious, and that is a good thing. Yes, he may be cautious. Or is it that he thinks Des is great, but he's not really in love with her? Many people initially become infatuated with the person who ends up being their life partner. OTOH, many people start out as friends first and it blossoms. There just isn't time for that on this show!

Brooks reminds me of the guys I used to go for. They liked me a lot, but not as much as I liked them. After having my heart broken for the umpteenth time, I figured out that I was going for the wrong guys. Then I met my husband, who is more like Chris and Drew (not quite as hot, but hot enough for me! :arrowlove: ). I think I chose wisely! :Smiley:

That's not to say Brooks is the wrong guy. Maybe he did realize when (and if) he walked away, he was losing a great thing. But Kasha has words of wisdom. If she took him back, will he walk away again?

by iamreal2u Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:07 pm

Will and kate walked away before they were married and any minute now they will have a little one. Molly and Jason walked away from each other and they just had a little one. Melissa and her now husband had broken up before she came on the show, and now they have a little one. Sometimes letting go makes you realize what you really had and need.

by latergator Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:09 pm

iamreal2u wrote:Will and kate walked away before they were married and any minute now they will have a little one. Molly and Jason walked away from each other and they just had a little one. Melissa and her now husband had broken up before she came on the show, and now they have a little one. Sometimes letting go makes you realize what you really had and need.

excellent point and beautiful examples... Hugesmile

by Buckeye_Fan Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:32 pm

iamreal2u wrote:Will and kate walked away before they were married and any minute now they will have a little one. Molly and Jason walked away from each other and they just had a little one. Melissa and her now husband had broken up before she came on the show, and now they have a little one. Sometimes letting go makes you realize what you really had and need.

Very true. That's why I said that maybe Brooks did walk away and realized he was losing a great thing. How romantic would that be? But sometimes people leave because it just isn't there (Ed on Jillian's season). We will find out what the short-term result of this situation (if Brooks did walk away) was in 2 weeks.

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