Re: The Bachelorette 9 - Contestants - Speculation/Spoilers - Discussion

by atem Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:46 pm

Jeepers wrote:BARB .. 2 of the F3 fell way too hard .. Way too fast .. Even for this show

I agree.

by 2observe Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:50 pm

BarbB222 wrote:
2observe wrote:
Jeepers wrote:There is no conflict in the story arch with Chris or Drew to resolve .. The conflict is with Brooks .. And will it be resolved by the end of her journey
The conflict is does Des continue to choose the wrong type of guy or has she learned from her mistakes. It's all about Des' story.

Brooks is not the wrong kind of guy. He's just using the head you need to use while making a serious decision. Guess we haven't seen it for awhile so it's almost unrecognizable . Some jump into love and some need time to work it through . Thus far I say it's not going too well for the guys who jumped and fell quickly for Des. Lets see how the last two do against the contemplater.

The fact that he has doubts and started to question things was his conflict that he didn't overcome. Instead he chose to leave while the others, (who at some point may have had the same doubts, but chose to stay) continued with the journey. In other words, Brooks ran from his conflict instead of facing it and moving forward. jmo

by Jeepers Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:54 pm

You don't know if and /or why Brooks may have left .. Or as you say ran .. He was obviously very conflicted in Antigua. But it is THEIR conflict that has to be resolved

The conflict doesn't run episode by episode .. It is part of a story line arch thru out the whole show

by Guest Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:55 pm

atem wrote:
Jeepers wrote:BARB .. 2 of the F3 fell way too hard .. Way too fast .. Even for this show

I agree.

make that 3 of the F4. sadly, i think the show is encouraging it. remember how sean didn't give lesley a HTD because he wasn't sure about her feelings for him. it seemed obvious if she'd said those 3 little words, before HTDs which is ridiculous, then she would have had one.

by 2observe Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:57 pm

Jeepers wrote:What conflict with drew??

I think Sue is referring to an upcoming episode where it looks like there is conflict in his talk with Des.

by nd4reality Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:00 pm

Jeepers wrote:You don't know if and /or why Brooks may have left .. Or as you say ran .. He was obviously very conflicted in Antigua. But it is THEIR conflict that has to be resolved

The conflict doesn't run episode by episode .. It is part of a story line arch thru out the whole show

So far they have shown us very little of the conflic. It has not run through the entire show. Thanks to the previews we "know" that someone had a conflict.
If Des' knee jerk reaction is to put him in the back of a limo -regarless of how she really feels she has bigger issues than just Brooks giving her the classic dumper line "like spending time with you but................."

by Piper61 Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:02 pm

I don't believe we've been shown any of the F4 having doubts other than Brooks, and it is because he's more cautious, or so the edit has us believe. Chris certainly doesn't seem like he has had any doubts about what he believes he and Des have together, even if he can see that she has feelings for Brooks. Zak was gobsmacked when he was let go after having given her a ring no less and Drew was most worried about the guys not there for the right reasons, especially James, at first and then believes after his HTD that he will return home engaged. Brooks is being about as realistic as anyone has been shown to be on this show in my opinion.

by BarbB222 Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:35 pm

Jeepers wrote:BARB .. 2 of the F3 fell way too hard .. Way too fast .. Even for this show

Super sonic speed. Sounds more like infatuation . Maybe Des too but good thing Brooks is trying to cool her jets and keep it real. I like that about him . Gives them a chance to build a REAL foundation and not one built on Antigua sand . If they walk away from this together, they would have gotten a real good idea who each of them is. That sounds like a good thing.. :yes:

by veg_out Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:13 am

Regarding the conflict, it's central to any narrative structure. There's always some obstacle, either internal or external, against which the protagonist must endure or overcome. The resolution results in some mental/emotional breakthrough, accomplishment, or happy ending (usually) unless it's a tragedy.

Des' obstacle as previously stated is loving men who don't equally love her in return. Brooks at the moment will play right into Des' central conflict. Ideally, the resolution to Brooks' personal conflict would be for him to lean into his feelings for her and not leave her; by leaving her, it opens the door for Des' conflict to be resolved by choosing one of the guys who has stuck by her through it all and loved her probably more than she loved them. But with Brooks' leaving, I imagine that the support of these men will deepen her feelings for them.

Regarding the lack of conflict for Drew and Chris', it's definitely there and it's with Desiree. She is in love with Brooks but both of these men think that their relationship to her is unlike any other. Listen to their PIs on their HTDs. When Brooks leaves and she falls apart, their conflict will rise: do they stay and try with someone who obviously was in love with someone else? Their conflicts resolve at the FRC.

It could be argued that Brooks' conflict will resolve when he leaves. It's Des' conflict that doesn't resolve until the FRC, and if Brooks returns, it's not a guarantee that he's the resolution to her conflict.

Why do I think she'll take him back if he returns? Because she loves him. Because of the way she was with James. Because she's big on chemistry and sparks. But her tweet about dating advice makes a good case for Des closing the door that Brooks might walk out of and not looking back but choosing Drew or Chris.

by 2observe Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:37 am

veg_out wrote:Regarding the conflict, it's central to any narrative structure. There's always some obstacle, either internal or external, against which the protagonist must endure or overcome. The resolution results in some mental/emotional breakthrough, accomplishment, or happy ending (usually) unless it's a tragedy.

Des' obstacle as previously stated is loving men who don't equally love her in return. Brooks at the moment will play right into Des' central conflict. Ideally, the resolution to Brooks' personal conflict would be for him to lean into his feelings for her and not leave her; by leaving her, it opens the door for Des' conflict to be resolved by choosing one of the guys who has stuck by her through it all and loved her probably more than she loved them. But with Brooks' leaving, I imagine that the support of these men will deepen her feelings for them.

Regarding the lack of conflict for Drew and Chris', it's definitely there and it's with Desiree. She is in love with Brooks but both of these men think that their relationship to her is unlike any other. Listen to their PIs on their HTDs. When Brooks leaves and she falls apart, their conflict will rise: do they stay and try with someone who obviously was in love with someone else? Their conflicts resolve at the FRC.

It could be argued that Brooks' conflict will resolve when he leaves. It's Des' conflict that doesn't resolve until the FRC, and if Brooks returns, it's not a guarantee that he's the resolution to her conflict.

Why do I think she'll take him back if he returns? Because she loves him. Because of the way she was with James. Because she's big on chemistry and sparks. But her tweet about dating advice makes a good case for Des closing the door that Brooks might walk out of and not looking back but choosing Drew or Chris.

Great post Veg, bowdown

And in the end Des overcomes her obstacle by breaking her pattern.

Correction: Removed the words " does not" from last sentence.

by Guest Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:28 am

veg_out wrote:Regarding the conflict, it's central to any narrative structure. There's always some obstacle, either internal or external, against which the protagonist must endure or overcome. The resolution results in some mental/emotional breakthrough, accomplishment, or happy ending (usually) unless it's a tragedy.

Des' obstacle as previously stated is loving men who don't equally love her in return. Brooks at the moment will play right into Des' central conflict. Ideally, the resolution to Brooks' personal conflict would be for him to lean into his feelings for her and not leave her; by leaving her, it opens the door for Des' conflict to be resolved by choosing one of the guys who has stuck by her through it all and loved her probably more than she loved them. But with Brooks' leaving, I imagine that the support of these men will deepen her feelings for them.

Regarding the lack of conflict for Drew and Chris', it's definitely there and it's with Desiree. She is in love with Brooks but both of these men think that their relationship to her is unlike any other. Listen to their PIs on their HTDs. When Brooks leaves and she falls apart, their conflict will rise: do they stay and try with someone who obviously was in love with someone else? Their conflicts resolve at the FRC.

It could be argued that Brooks' conflict will resolve when he leaves. It's Des' conflict that doesn't resolve until the FRC, and if Brooks returns, it's not a guarantee that he's the resolution to her conflict.

Why do I think she'll take him back if he returns? Because she loves him. Because of the way she was with James. Because she's big on chemistry and sparks. But her tweet about dating advice makes a good case for Des closing the door that Brooks might walk out of and not looking back but choosing Drew or Chris.

mad props to you, veg!!.....you have said it all perfectly.!!.... bowdown

by Aunties_Love Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:43 am

2observe wrote:
veg_out wrote:The clue to the season's outcome really is the conflict. In other seasons, the F1 starts having some type of conflict around episode 6 or 7 that builds over the final episodes until it's resolved in the finale. Brooks' conflict is apparent to us all: he's behind in his feelings for Des. At times, like on the mountain in Madeira when he turned her question about the relationship working into a resolute "it is working" and his comments during the HTD, I don't think that Brooks was behind. Sometimes, I think they spun this drama for its own sake.

The conversations with Brooks' family at HTD could be interpreted in a different way. During Des' chat with his mom, his mom makes a point to say that Brooks would be ready if he found the right girl. During Brooks' conversation with his mom, he said that the journey has brought him into deeper touch with himself and knowing what he wants. The questions posed by his brothers need to be answered, but what if the answer is Brooks' departure? What if during the time away from her as he waits for a FSD, he realizes that he isn't where he needs to be with Des in order to propose? The things he's saying to her sound like he's eliminating himself. Brooks could come back, which would resolve his conflict even if Des doesn't choose him.

Des' conflict is loving "the wrong guys". She loves guys who don't love her back as much as she loves them. All season long, Des was shown to be more into guys than they were into her (even if she wasn't). First was Bryden, then was James who was only there, per the show, to be the Bachelor. When these guys left, she had interesting reactions: with Bryden, she showed no emotion to his face but she cried in a PI saying she wanted to get back to Chris to be happy again. In a VO, she said that she worried that other guys with whom she would want a relationship might bail on her (that's a paraphrase). With James, she's angry, but when she listens to him speak his piece, it softens her to the point of her own distress at letting him go. For the Men Tell All they are emphasizing that Des has a lot of "bad boys".

For her to resolve this conflict, Des needs to choose a man who loves her as much as she loves him. Is Brooks the guy who "stays by [her] side"? If he leaves and returns, is her love for him big enough to trust him again? [I think that Des will take him back.] OR does she move on to one of the men who does love her? Add to that the fact that Drew and Chris will deal with the aftermath of Brooks' departure. If she's a mess, then it really wouldn't help either of them feel like they'd have a stable future if she's in love with someone else. What a mess, but episodes 10 and 11 should be fun to watch!

Let's put another spin to the bolded. Des has stated everytimes that she always attracts the wrong guys. The ones who don't easily open up about their feelings, and she often gives more and receives less in the emotion department. Brooks has been the type of guy that Des always seem to fall (the emotionally unavailable ones). So when it comes to taking a leap of faith to find love with Des, Brooks chooses to walk away. In the meantime, Des has to continue with the other guys and then discovers what she really needs in a relationship. That is someone who would love her the way she loves and someone who will stand beside her and support her when things get tough. When Brooks returns Des will choose the guy that has been by her side all along. She will choose Chris or Drew. jmo

I agree completely. As she herself has said, Sometimes you find someone/something that you need versus someone/something you want. In this case, I do think she chooses either Chris or Drew.

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