Re: The Bachelor: Women Tell All - 3/04 - Discussion Thread

[janeh810]

Blame the producers or blame Sean, or blame Ashlee. Then, I can blame myself. Why? Because, I am a viewer (once in a while). And, I'll say it again: The viewers run the show and pay the bills. If the viewers stop watching, the show won't go on. And, as Shakespeare said, "Therein lies the rub." Why bother to point the finger at others? Why waste the time and energy, at my age? Time and energy are precious commodities, to me. So, I skip all the finger pointing and look in the mirror.

[Kashathediva]

Also want to add that human nature when being told you've said something you didn't is to get a little uptight, indignant and the worlds flow out of your mouth and it usually gets a little heated. When lying.... you have to remain calm and controlled and really think about you're saying so you don't slip up. This is what I saw Sean doing last night.

The above versus the red faced, tight fisted, tight lipped, barely restrainable man we saw when dealing with Des' brother.
Do I believe the situation is black and white as far as Yawn's pov and AshLess' pov? Of course not.
Part of being a good lead is the ability of the machine being able to successfully lead you.

[terabithia]

If Sean had allowed things to get a little heated then people would be saying he protested a little too much so AshLee must be right. Really, I think you could claim any "people do X when Y happens" theory to fit what you think of Sean. People are different, we don't all act the same way. We may also react differently in unusual situations, like on camera in front of a live studio audience.

[pbmax]

First post-I usually lurk:-). I think Ashley convinced herself she was the F1. I mean, the girl had a ring picked out! I think after Dez left, she probably thought the other 2 girls (being younger and more playful) are no competition to her.

I'm convinced Sean may have said something like "i'm not worried about the others girls; or I'm don't care about the other 2 girls Right now, I'm with you" and in Ashlee's mind it meant something totally different!

I also think producers put her up to it...what better way to create drama for ATFR.

Welcome! Yes she definitely convinced herself she was F1. I listen to her talk in her PI's and was thinking "child please". I guess Sean also told her he was going to propose to her too since she was going on and on all night about what kind of ring she wanted. I would say Not by the way he was looking at her (wth)

[Guest]

What she was saying changed in wording three times, if you go back and check. So, she doesn't remember the exact wording he used. But I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. He thought she was ahead of the others until he had the fantasy date with the others. On paper Ashley was great, and he probably told himself she was the one until behind closed doors in the fantasy, talking with them, spending time with them, it became clearer to him who meshed more with him. Had Ashley's fantasy date been the last instead of the first, I believe nothing would have been said that could have been misinterpreted, he would have been more distanced from her.

Too bad Ashley isn't the bachelorette because if she were she would have the full knowledge of what it felt like to be Sean and the process he had to go through.

I believe she will regret doing what she did. Even if part way right, it was small of her.

[Longhornfan]

Allow me to share a thought from a mans perspective:

The only reason a man would have lied to a woman in the fantasy suite scenario is to get sexual favors.

Everyone knows Sean is celibate. It's strongly suggested he is celibate with his fiancée. So why would Sean lie to AshLee?

Answer: he wouldn't. That was one of the most vindictive things I've ever seen.

What I found remarkable is that AshLee challenged Tierra about questioning her integrity (which the editors were very careful to keep in the show).... and then she did the same to Sean.....

It is clear from the comments made that she still feels like the woman scorned- and she had built HUGE expectations about him- ones that he would never in a million years lived up to- because even a saint would not be able to rise to the standard she was expecting. If she felt he was like a frat boy around all the other women, but not with her, she should have come to the conclusion that he had not been himself (at least not 100% himself with her) and instead of recriminations she should know that they were not right for each other. When in public, it is ALWAYS better to take the high road.

Jcrbil, that is what struck me the most in watching tonight as well. She took such great exception with Tierra questioning her integrity and calling her (AshLee) a liar and then turned right around and perseverated in essentially calling Sean the same thing.

That being said, I do believe that AshLee truly believes that Sean said those things to her. We all have a filter with which we receive incoming stimuli - some of our filters are more clogged than others. By her account, AshLee was convinced that Sean was going to choose her and, accordingly, her filter likely interpreted things he said to support that conviction.

And that being said, I totally agree with you that the graceful thing would have been for her to let it go (at least in public) even if she wasn't able to do it quite yet internally.

Docnash, I was especially interested in reading your thoughts on AshLee's behavior toward Sean last night. And I agree that whatever was said to AshLee by Sean in the Fantasy suite, AshLee believed that he had given her confirmation that she was going to be his choice at the end.

I don't think that AshLee made that up just to embarrass Sean at the WTA....and she actually believes to this day that he did say those words to her. Don't they spend somewhere around 12 hours or more together during their time in the fantasy suite? That is a lot of time to fill, either just talking or making out or whatever. And we are lead to believe that they mostly talk.

And, I also agree that it would have been better for AshLee to not push Sean on the subject. She was never going to hear from him at the WTA what she wanted to hear. No matter what was said, Sean seemed to stay on script. He basically affirmed that when he told AshLee that the lead is EXPECTED to discuss what the future would look like with each of the women in the fantasy suite. I could see where he probably did say some things to her that he shouldn't have, that is unless he was 100% convinced that he was not going to pick either Catherine or Lindsay at that point in time.

[Guest]

I have no doubt that Ashlee heard what she wanted to hear, but I DO doubt that Sean went into their fantasy date thinking she would probably be F1. His BL during their date, imo, said he was over it, that he had already checked out and was simply going through the obligatory motions.

[pbmax]

Well I have a problem with believing her when I'm listening to the words coming out of her mouth and they aren't jiving up with what I saw on the show. She wasn't making sense in my book especially after watching the show and still couldn't she wasn't the one. Leslie rolling her eyes convinced me too. I think her main goal for doing that to Sean was to bust him and that gal up but I hope it backfired on her and they are stronger.

[jcrbil]

When I piece together what we saw last night with Sean's blog today there one thing I do see. This is a man who has brought up to be truthful- perhaps to a fault truthful.. .. Sean expects his "yes" to be "yes". That is why he said, "I wouldn't have said that" because it is against his nature to lie. That being said, he told her to be confident. He may have said that when he's with her she's the only one he thinks about.... any number of things which, with a certain filter might make one absolutely think that you're the ONLY one.

Still, AshLee did not have enough of a filter at the WTA to realize she would get nowhere with this once Sean denied it. The more candid exchange, when the formal filming was suspended, but the mikes were open, is very telling. Sean is more animated in that moment, but just as insistent

[Guest]

Have they ever done the open mike thing before last night? They knew they had some ratings gold going on during the break, didn't they?

[moonchild]

Lots of interesting discussion and different points of view.

I went back and rewatched the RC for the FD's. AshLee's demeanor did not depict to me someone that thought she had it in the bag. Not one sweet smile was sent Sean's way, which is what I would expect. I'm wondering if she sensed he was pulling away. If her date was filmed first, she had a lot of time to sit and ponder everything that happened and everything that was said. I think that I recall on their FD Sean said to AshLee I feel like it is just the two of us. He could have meant they are together in this very secluded remote spot and his focus is just on her. I can see where she could run with those words and interpret it to mean he felt it was just the two of them on the "journey" or that he only cared about her.

Prior to that RC he said that he was going to let someone go that he had thought from the start would be there at the end. That he had thought he would be the one to love and protect her. But, that he had become convinced that she was not the one he was supposed to be with. So, I think she was given signals early on that he thought she was the "one".

Do I think Sean ever said that he didn't care about the other two.......absolutely not!

[pbmax]

I have no doubt that Ashlee heard what she wanted to hear, but I DO doubt that Sean went into their fantasy date thinking she would probably be F1. His BL during their date, imo, said he was over it, that he had already checked out and was simply going through the obligatory motions.

Right! even in the previews after the HTD, I could see she was going home that episode. Just as I can see in the finale previews that he has checked out concerning Lindsay.

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