Episode 12 - 7/22 - Bachelorette 8 - ATFR (Live) - Discussion

Shoesies wrote:I would think that any contact had to be reported. Contract. I also think that since Jef took the lead in the handling of the contact further, he at the minimum was aware of and approved her not reading and returning the journal. It could have been done in orivate, imo. I am not well versed on the contracts, but I would have preferred they find a way to settle it in private. I do thinkthat the majority of the issue was that Emily is not good at difficult conversation and could not communicate that it was RE in the beginning and then she fell in love with Jef. Simple, easy peasy.

Kimmy wrote:

Shoesies wrote:I would think that any contact had to be reported. Contract. I also think that since Jef took the lead in the handling of the contact further, he at the minimum was aware of and approved her not reading and returning the journal. It could have been done in orivate, imo. I am not well versed on the contracts, but I would have preferred they find a way to settle it in private. I do thinkthat the majority of the issue was that Emily is not good at difficult conversation and could not communicate that it was RE in the beginning and then she fell in love with Jef. Simple, easy peasy.

The simplest of statements carry the greatest weight. That was it. :Smiley:

London happened, blame them!

mnmhughes wrote:

Kimmy wrote:

Shoesies wrote:I would think that any contact had to be reported. Contract. I also think that since Jef took the lead in the handling of the contact further, he at the minimum was aware of and approved her not reading and returning the journal. It could have been done in orivate, imo. I am not well versed on the contracts, but I would have preferred they find a way to settle it in private. I do thinkthat the majority of the issue was that Emily is not good at difficult conversation and could not communicate that it was RE in the beginning and then she fell in love with Jef. Simple, easy peasy.

The simplest of statements carry the greatest weight. That was it. :Smiley:

London happened, blame them!

And cue another great FRIENDS moment.
Joey: "When did this happen?"
Chandler and Monica: "Well, you see, when we were in London...."
Joey: "IN LONDON?!"

:cutesmile!:

gurlbrit wrote:

mnmhughes wrote:

Kimmy wrote:

Shoesies wrote:I would think that any contact had to be reported. Contract. I also think that since Jef took the lead in the handling of the contact further, he at the minimum was aware of and approved her not reading and returning the journal. It could have been done in orivate, imo. I am not well versed on the contracts, but I would have preferred they find a way to settle it in private. I do thinkthat the majority of the issue was that Emily is not good at difficult conversation and could not communicate that it was RE in the beginning and then she fell in love with Jef. Simple, easy peasy.

The simplest of statements carry the greatest weight. That was it. :Smiley:

London happened, blame them!

And cue another great FRIENDS moment.
Joey: "When did this happen?"
Chandler and Monica: "Well, you see, when we were in London...."
Joey: "IN LONDON?!"

:cutesmile!:

Now see Paris is the City of Love; how can my home town (London) be where love starts. Although, Emily totally gave it away when she said in that EW interview; about having a first date in London. Once Sean was out of the picture, game over!!!!!

I think that she called TPTB when Arie called her and they JUST COULDN'T RESIST the drama associated with it. I'm pretty sure that TPTB got hold of Arie's journal and kept it until just the right moment; hence deciding a couple of weeks ago that the AFTR and Finale would be broadcast live on a Sunday evening. It's all about drama and ratings, and this is ratings gold.

The truth is that none of us knows exactly how this went down. All that was said was that Arie flew to NC and called Emily without letting the producers know first, and even THAT we can't 100% know wasn't the story they were all told to say (although I tend to believe this part was the truth; however, many of the contestants who have done the show have been known to lie or mislead because it's what is expected/required at times). I know that it IS in their contracts that unauthorized contact between Emily and Arie post show was prohibited, so obviously Emily knew that Arie was breaking that clause by getting in touch with her. Should she have chosen to break it with him (and did she)? Or did she do the right thing by not violating her contract and letting producers know (if indeed she did)? Or did producers learn of the indiscretion in another way? And was the journal in Emily's possession this whole time or not? My guess is if the producers knew about it, they would have confiscated it, particularly once they decided to use it as part of the "script" for the ATFR. One thing I do know is that until more light gets shed on this subject, it is all just speculation.

Boy, my "revelling" comment really hit a nerve. Interesting.

ironcat wrote:

gurlbrit wrote:

beader wrote:

HowSoonIsNow wrote:I understand why Emily wouldn't open the package and read Arie's journal. I also understand why some would disagree with me on this. I also understand why, presented with an unexpected phone call from Arie, Emily might not have been thinking on her feet & advising Arie to not leave the parcel with her. At the moment, she might have been flummoxed.

What I don't understand is this: after thinking it over for a cpl days (or hours), why didn't she just mail the package back to him with a note of explanation? And if she was discussing Arie's call with Jef, why didn't the two of them decide to mail it back? Why did the two of them decide to notify TPTB instead? Or was it unavoidable, like does a handler live with emily or screen all her calls/mail/pkgs while the season is airing?

The bolded would require them caring more for Arie than the publicity for themselves.

So what do y'all think is the reason for TPTB displaying this stuff?

I think that she called TPTB when Arie called her and they JUST COULDN'T RESIST the drama associated with it. I'm pretty sure that TPTB got hold of Arie's journal and kept it until just the right moment; hence deciding a couple of weeks ago that the AFTR and Finale would be broadcast live on a Sunday evening. It's all about drama and ratings, and this is ratings gold.

The truth is that none of us knows exactly how this went down. All that was said was that Arie flew to NC and called Emily without letting the producers know first, and even THAT we can't 100% know wasn't the story they were all told to say (although I tend to believe this part was the truth; however, many of the contestants who have done the show have been known to lie or mislead because it's what is expected/required at times). I know that it IS in their contracts that unauthorized contact between Emily and Arie post show was prohibited, so obviously Emily knew that Arie was breaking that clause by getting in touch with her. Should she have chosen to break it with him (and did she)? Or did she do the right thing by not violating her contract and letting producers know (if indeed she did)? Or did producers learn of the indiscretion in another way? And was the journal in Emily's possession this whole time or not? My guess is if the producers knew about it, they would have confiscated it, particularly once they decided to use it as part of the "script" for the ATFR. One thing I do know is that until more light gets shed on this subject, it is all just speculation.

Boy, my "revelling" comment really hit a nerve. Interesting.

Piper61 wrote:

Amberish wrote:

ironcat wrote:I think when Emily said she felt more confident that it would work out with Jef, it was her way of saying that she felt she and Jef were just more compatible overall than she and Arie were, in terms of lifestyle, values, culture, families meshing, etc. And I suspect she's correct. She was in "Bachelor love" with both of them, which even the successful couples have admitted isn't enough, and you have to fall in love FOR REALZ after the show is over. So rather than get hung up on that, she based her decision on which guy she saw a smoother future with, and that was Jef. Had her feelings for Arie been stronger, none of the rest of it would have mattered, but clearly they weren't, or she wouldn't have dumped him.

Regarding Arie's journal, I certainly understand why he left it on her door, and if Emily was having ANY second thoughts about her decision at any point over the past few months, she would have read it. But apparently she wasn't, and as a result, it would have been highly disrespectful to have done so, so I'm not at all surprised that she never even opened the package.

There's no telling what the future will hold, but I have no doubt that this couple is sincerely happy and truly believes that they are soulmates right now, and they expect it to work out. If the fact that they (I suspect it's largely coming from Jef) are more circumspect in their PDAs than some other couples makes them less interesting to watch for some viewers, or causes these viewers to doubt or denigrate their relationship, so be it. I'm sure Jem couldn't care less. And from the smiles on their faces tonight, I suspect that things are going quite well in that department for both of them in private. :giggle:

Very thoughtful post.

Not sure about Emily only in Bachelor Love when filming concluded in that, I think Emily did fall in love with Jef where she didn't really with Arie. I do believe Emily's eyes gives her away.

Totally in agreement with Emily's eyes having given her away many times. I think she knew for awhile that she loved Arie, but wasn't "in love" with Arie. And she was falling in love with Jef and it just grew and grew after their London date. I think her dad's words resonated with her, though she didn't totally agree on camera, about not being able to love two people that way at the same time.

HowSoonIsNow wrote:

ironcat wrote:

gurlbrit wrote:

beader wrote:

HowSoonIsNow wrote:I understand why Emily wouldn't open the package and read Arie's journal. I also understand why some would disagree with me on this. I also understand why, presented with an unexpected phone call from Arie, Emily might not have been thinking on her feet & advising Arie to not leave the parcel with her. At the moment, she might have been flummoxed.

What I don't understand is this: after thinking it over for a cpl days (or hours), why didn't she just mail the package back to him with a note of explanation? And if she was discussing Arie's call with Jef, why didn't the two of them decide to mail it back? Why did the two of them decide to notify TPTB instead? Or was it unavoidable, like does a handler live with emily or screen all her calls/mail/pkgs while the season is airing?

The bolded would require them caring more for Arie than the publicity for themselves.

So what do y'all think is the reason for TPTB displaying this stuff?

I think that she called TPTB when Arie called her and they JUST COULDN'T RESIST the drama associated with it. I'm pretty sure that TPTB got hold of Arie's journal and kept it until just the right moment; hence deciding a couple of weeks ago that the AFTR and Finale would be broadcast live on a Sunday evening. It's all about drama and ratings, and this is ratings gold.

The truth is that none of us knows exactly how this went down. All that was said was that Arie flew to NC and called Emily without letting the producers know first, and even THAT we can't 100% know wasn't the story they were all told to say (although I tend to believe this part was the truth; however, many of the contestants who have done the show have been known to lie or mislead because it's what is expected/required at times). I know that it IS in their contracts that unauthorized contact between Emily and Arie post show was prohibited, so obviously Emily knew that Arie was breaking that clause by getting in touch with her. Should she have chosen to break it with him (and did she)? Or did she do the right thing by not violating her contract and letting producers know (if indeed she did)? Or did producers learn of the indiscretion in another way? And was the journal in Emily's possession this whole time or not? My guess is if the producers knew about it, they would have confiscated it, particularly once they decided to use it as part of the "script" for the ATFR. One thing I do know is that until more light gets shed on this subject, it is all just speculation.

Boy, my "revelling" comment really hit a nerve. Interesting.

Yes, of course, ironcat, we don't and can't really know. My question was more logistical. What options did Emily have in the situation, and what were her barriers to exercising them? If she's banned by contract from personally contacting Arie off camera, does that also extend to fedexing a package? My original question was if a handler lives with her during airing, which would then of course be the simple answer to the whole situation, but others are saying that no handler lives with her.

tigertiz wrote:

I can’t fault Emily for letting Arie go at his LCD. I can’t even blame her for the lack of closure she gave him while they were at the Botanic Garden – she was a wreck, and I am sure that impacted her to some degree. If anything, I am thankful that she made up her mind early and spared him the humiliation of the FRC. What I can and DO fault her for is the way she handled everything since then.

As soon as we learned that Arie actually flew to NC in an attempt to either win her back or get some closure, the tears finally started to flow for me. The type of love and passion that Arie felt (feels?) for Emily is such a gift. It drove him to fight for her. It drove him to completely put himself out there and open himself up to more hurt. It was risky. It left him completely bare and exposed. Yet he managed to find the strength to stop himself from potentially disrupting Ricki’s life. So instead he called Emily and told her he was in town. I gather that he told her he wouldn’t disrupt her life, but wanted her to read the journal he had been keeping. So he left it on her doorstep.

Can we just pause for a second and reenact this scenario in our minds?

This amazing man, his heart in pieces, still feels so strongly for Emily that he books a flight across the country to see her. To fight for her. To prove to her that he loves her with all his heart. That she is his soul mate. He had to be a nervous wreck. What if she isn’t there? What if she won’t see him? What if he was wrong and she doesn’t feel the same? What if, despite everything, she still doesn’t love him back? A million “what ifs” running through his mind as his plane touches down. And then what? He has to see Emily. He has to see her smiling face. He has to be near her. He has to prove to her how he feels. That it was real. That it IS real. But what about Ricki? What if she is home? What will she think about a strange man showing up to see her mom? What will Emily think? He doesn’t want to disrupt their lives, so he takes a step back. He breathes. He calls Emily. He tells her he is in town, desperate to see her, but doesn’t want to upset her or Ricki. They compromise. Arie tells her that he kept a journal during the show and he wants her to read it. He knows it will leave him raw and exposed, but it will prove his feelings for her are real. It appears that she agrees to read it, because he drops it off at her doorstep. AT HER DOORSTEP. He is standing at her doorstep. So close to the woman he loves. Close to the only person that can either heal his heart OR give him closure. And he can do nothing but drop off his journal and walk away. So he does. He leaves NC, hoping that she will read his words. Hoping that she will see his true feelings. Hoping…

And then she throws it back in his face (unread) at the LIVE ATFR special. In front of a million TV viewers.

Are you F#@%ing kidding me?!?

That part of their journey should have remained private and completely off camera. I don’t care what their contracts say, as the lead Emily had the power to keep this private. If she had one once of respect for Arie – just one ounce – she would have insisted this be kept off camera. Then again, if she had one once of respect for him, she would have read his journal.

That journal wasn’t about Emily – it was about ARIE. He needed closure. He needed to know that he did everything in his power to prove to Emily that he loved her. He needed to know that there was nothing he could have done differently. Nothing he could have said differently. He needed to have no regrets. If he knew he did everything in his power to prove his love, and she STILL didn’t pick him, then he could let go. Choosing to share his private and most innermost thoughts with her was his way of doing that. She didn’t respect him enough to do that for him. Then she rubbed it in his face by bringing the whole thing public.

And he still managed to handle himself with class.

Arie Luyendyk Jr. has more class in his pinky finger than Emily does in her whole body.

By bxmvm