Episode 12 - 7/22 - Bachelorette 8 - ATFR (Live) - Discussion

ironcat wrote:
Boy, my "revelling" comment really hit a nerve. Interesting.

Thomigirl wrote:The journal seemed like a badly executed Fleiss plot. I was expecting the 'dun, dun, dun' music when Emily whipped out the journal. I was like, really? And Arie was either aware beforehand or under prescription medication because his reaction was 'meh'.

skitts wrote:

lawla wrote:Holy cow. A lot of hostility this morning. I believe on her situation, I wouldn't have read it either. I would have been curious, but like she said, it wouldn't of helped anything, and it probably would have hurt jef's feelings if she read it. I think she looks very happy. And like she said... I'm sure arie. Would have made her happy too. She chose the guy that fit into her life the best, end of story. All this stuff about money is pretty funny seeing that Jef really isn't much wealthier than Arie, and Emily has more money than both of them. I don't believe she hose security I. The send of money. But security in the one who could be there for her, and fit into her life. I don't think Arie could have dropped everything to make it work for them and be a family. I think it shows how committed he is to her and this relationship.

I do agree that she does fit into Jef's life better or can I say, Jef offers more stability to 'her life'!!!! This is the thing...it's always about what the others have to offer her. He makes 'me' laugh...he gets 'me'...he gives 'me' more confidence! What does she have to offer 1F? What does she bring to the relationship? I say she fits better with Jef based on his family and little Ricki....well, he's moving to Charlotte to fit 'her' life...may change...but at the present, concessions are being made for Emily, once again! What happen to Diana's comments on her moving to Utah after the mission trip and looking into private schools! Check out the GMA video of them...either Jef is way shy or extremely tired but Emily carried the show and he looked subdued!

Amberish wrote:

Piper61 wrote:

Amberish wrote:

ironcat wrote:I think when Emily said she felt more confident that it would work out with Jef, it was her way of saying that she felt she and Jef were just more compatible overall than she and Arie were, in terms of lifestyle, values, culture, families meshing, etc. And I suspect she's correct. She was in "Bachelor love" with both of them, which even the successful couples have admitted isn't enough, and you have to fall in love FOR REALZ after the show is over. So rather than get hung up on that, she based her decision on which guy she saw a smoother future with, and that was Jef. Had her feelings for Arie been stronger, none of the rest of it would have mattered, but clearly they weren't, or she wouldn't have dumped him.

Regarding Arie's journal, I certainly understand why he left it on her door, and if Emily was having ANY second thoughts about her decision at any point over the past few months, she would have read it. But apparently she wasn't, and as a result, it would have been highly disrespectful to have done so, so I'm not at all surprised that she never even opened the package.

There's no telling what the future will hold, but I have no doubt that this couple is sincerely happy and truly believes that they are soulmates right now, and they expect it to work out. If the fact that they (I suspect it's largely coming from Jef) are more circumspect in their PDAs than some other couples makes them less interesting to watch for some viewers, or causes these viewers to doubt or denigrate their relationship, so be it. I'm sure Jem couldn't care less. And from the smiles on their faces tonight, I suspect that things are going quite well in that department for both of them in private. :giggle:

Very thoughtful post.

Not sure about Emily only in Bachelor Love when filming concluded in that, I think Emily did fall in love with Jef where she didn't really with Arie. I do believe Emily's eyes gives her away.

Totally in agreement with Emily's eyes having given her away many times. I think she knew for awhile that she loved Arie, but wasn't "in love" with Arie. And she was falling in love with Jef and it just grew and grew after their London date. I think her dad's words resonated with her, though she didn't totally agree on camera, about not being able to love two people that way at the same time.

What I saw was Emily pivoting during the Hometown dates and that everything solidified with Emily while she was in Utah.

Emily looked so done with Arie (as she was Sean) after Hometowns that it is no surprised she dumped him at the first point she could, right after he met her parents. The bit about her being in love with two men was entirely manufactured for story drama.

I take stock in what Emily said: if Jef wasn't there, it would have been Arie for Arie was the man she picked out as her F1 from day 1. He had one of the coveted week 3, 1-1 dates and until HTDs, it was Arie, Arie, Arie, Arie ... until she stopped falling in love with Arie and fell in love with Jef.

Arie was blindsided because Emily let Arie know it was him, until it wasn't. And, when it wasn't, Arie missed those signals.

If enlisted to help Emily compile the list of things she is isn't good at, at the top of the list should be giving signals! As baffled as she is of men not reading as to when to kiss her, she appears equally baffled as to why men didn't pick up on her no longer wanting them around.

Shoesies wrote:Yep, simple. It was Arie until it was Jef. Em had a hard time telling ARie that. She admitted it last night. Jef helped her out, Arie was a gentleman. It appears that Jef and Arie are still friends. Around goes the world. One thing though: I do not trust that TPTB were not majorly involved with the mixed signals and the journal fiasco. Nope, nuh uh.

skitts wrote:

ironcat wrote:

skitts wrote:

lawla wrote:Holy cow. A lot of hostility this morning. I believe on her situation, I wouldn't have read it either. I would have been curious, but like she said, it wouldn't of helped anything, and it probably would have hurt jef's feelings if she read it. I think she looks very happy. And like she said... I'm sure arie. Would have made her happy too. She chose the guy that fit into her life the best, end of story. All this stuff about money is pretty funny seeing that Jef really isn't much wealthier than Arie, and Emily has more money than both of them. I don't believe she hose security I. The send of money. But security in the one who could be there for her, and fit into her life. I don't think Arie could have dropped everything to make it work for them and be a family. I think it shows how committed he is to her and this relationship.

I do agree that she does fit into Jef's life better or can I say, Jef offers more stability to 'her life'!!!! This is the thing...it's always about what the others have to offer her. He makes 'me' laugh...he gets 'me'...he gives 'me' more confidence! What does she have to offer 1F? What does she bring to the relationship? I say she fits better with Jef based on his family and little Ricki....well, he's moving to Charlotte to fit 'her' life...may change...but at the present, concessions are being made for Emily, once again! What happen to Diana's comments on her moving to Utah after the mission trip and looking into private schools! Check out the GMA video of them...either Jef is way shy or extremely tired but Emily carried the show and he looked subdued!

If you watched the after party interview done last night, Jef took the lead and answered almost every question, Emily demurred to him time and again and barely spoke. I suspect he was just tired this morning.

And yes, everyone's entitled to revel in their hostility.

IC...didn't know you became a moderator...congrats on your new position and thanks so much for allowing me to 'revel' and post my opinions on cast members! Hostility

HowSoonIsNow wrote:

Shoesies wrote:I would think that any contact had to be reported. Contract. I also think that since Jef took the lead in the handling of the contact further, he at the minimum was aware of and approved her not reading and returning the journal. It could have been done in orivate, imo. I am not well versed on the contracts, but I would have preferred they find a way to settle it in private. I do thinkthat the majority of the issue was that Emily is not good at difficult conversation and could not communicate that it was RE in the beginning and then she fell in love with Jef. Simple, easy peasy.

I am sure that out of respect for Arie, JEm could have decided to return the package in private, rather than tell TPTB and return the package on air. Sure they are under contract, but what was going to happpen? Would Fleiss have sued them? That would have made TPTB look really bad.

Nativenewyorker wrote:

HowSoonIsNow wrote:

Shoesies wrote:I would think that any contact had to be reported. Contract. I also think that since Jef took the lead in the handling of the contact further, he at the minimum was aware of and approved her not reading and returning the journal. It could have been done in orivate, imo. I am not well versed on the contracts, but I would have preferred they find a way to settle it in private. I do thinkthat the majority of the issue was that Emily is not good at difficult conversation and could not communicate that it was RE in the beginning and then she fell in love with Jef. Simple, easy peasy.

I am sure that out of respect for Arie, JEm could have decided to return the package in private, rather than tell TPTB and return the package on air. Sure they are under contract, but what was going to happpen? Would Fleiss have sued them? That would have made TPTB look really bad.

It's not like anyone was trying to keep the ending a secret. They were pretty obvious in all the tweets, instagram pictures, etc. Why not insist that this be done privately? After all, Arie did this when filming was over. It was private on his part. It should have stayed that way. It's clear that tptb wanted this for their drama and shock value on the live ATFR. But that doesn't mean that it had to happen that way. No matter how some try to spin it, the simple fact is that it looked cruel and callous for Emily to return it to Arie unread in front of a nationwide tv audience. He deserved better than that. But I hope that this moment finally gave him the closure he needed to move on. If Arie can have some understanding and some peace out of this whole thing, then it wasn't a total loss. I will never know how Arie maintained his composure and dignity. A class act all the way.

Chacharo wrote:

ironcat wrote:
Boy, my "revelling" comment really hit a nerve. Interesting.

The comment seemed baiting to me. Not sure why else it would have been worded like that. Perhaps that is why it received some response. Just my perspective.

Thomigirl wrote:The journal seemed like a badly executed Fleiss plot. I was expecting the 'dun, dun, dun' music when Emily whipped out the journal. I was like, really? And Arie was either aware beforehand or under prescription medication because his reaction was 'meh'.

We've heard from past contestants that they are not allowed contact after the show until it's finished airing (well, except for those super-secret meet-ups - which, by the way, weren't so secret this season). I think the whole situation was prompted by production - from Arie's trip to Charlotte, to his phone conversation(s) with Emily - to him leaving the journal on her doorstep - to Emily bringing it back unopened for the shocking finale! Heck, production probably encourages these people to keep their journals in hopes they can be used in a story line some day. They struck tv oil with this one.

Nativenewyorker wrote: I don't know what words Love_Me or San can use to try and get this point across any more firmly than they have tried to do over and over this season. I also do not understand why anyone would continue to degrade the point of view of other forum members. Who gets to say that some comments are hostility? Who makes that decision? Our wonderful moderators have pleaded and implored that we not tell others what to say and how to say it. How much clearer can it be? It creates bad feelings on the forum.

mnmhughes wrote:At the same time, Love_Me and San have also asked us to use scroll, FOE, and PM's to deal with posts we don't like, rather than lecturing other members of the board like they're children.