Episode 3 - 6/6 - Discussion - Spoilers

Why does JP's conversation with Ashley have to be negative? both F1 and F2 have a conflict of sorts to overcome. Roberto - perfect guy and usually unattainable type for Allie but they chose each other and are happy to this day. Emily's story was one of doubt about whether or not she could love again. The story arc for both the F1 and F2 can have a positive or negative edge to it.... but we don't know for sure what it'll be until we know who the lead chooses in the end. Same with JP's....his past is either going to be why it won't work OR it'll be one of them taking a chance on love, a leap of faith and finally falling in love. Only time will reveal the answer for us.

anders wrote:

LibbyBell wrote:

Alexxxx wrote:Great convo going on this morning. The point about figuring out why something is left in the edit is crucial to understanding what we're watching. It was pointed out elsewhere that Ashley and JP ordered in chinese food and she actually fell asleep in his arms on their date, but that was cut out of the edit. And yet, they left in the part about his dating history. There's a reason they make the choices they do in the editing bay.

Alexxxx, I totally agree with this. However, I think that most times, the reason is to plant doubt about the person not to explain. It's called stirring the pot or fanning the flame where there might not otherwise be a fire!

But we don’t know that yet – that’s part of this whole storytelling thing – we don’t know exactly how this plays out in episodes to come, but it will be part of JP and/or Ashley’s story.

As Alexxx said - great convo.

Just throwing out another thought here..............

We know that the F1 always has some hurdle to overcome right ? So perhaps this is JPs hurdle and thats why they are leaving it in the edit ?

anders wrote:

Max64 wrote:

noobsleuth wrote:Why can't JP's dating history be more about Ashley's storyline. She had just been dumped by Bentley and painfully insecure that the rest of the men did not want her. On her date with JP she finds out that he is usually the dumper. We then here her ask (in light of the Bentley situation) what would keep him from dumping her. His answer was not about relationships at all but about just taking a leap of faith. If it works out awesome... if it doesn't time heals all and you move on. I saw no foreshadowing that he was to break her heart as well or vice versa ... only that at the end of this these two will take the crazy leap together. Ashley terrified and all. This whole season is about Ashley not being scared or having regrets like she did last season with Brad. JP is the only one at the moment who fits whatsoever in the with this storyline.... except for Bentley (the antagonist)

Very well said That's the whole story this season, will Ashley have had enough time to heal and move on to take a leap of faith with JP.

Then why not give us the shot of her falling asleep in his arms – why focus on his dating history and not also include her cuddling up to him and going to sleep?? For me, it’s always about what we see and what they don’t’ let us see. I don’t think the whole dating history thing is nothing that isn’t setting up something – I’m not trying to assume I know what that is, only that it is.

Probably because they can't show her too comfortable around JP, who would believe she is that devasted over Bentley leaving? I don't think it was focusing on dating history, but more of you have to heal and get back in the game. I believe that's why they haven't shown us any interaction with the other guys too, it would take away from the Bentley drama. In the media release for next weeks ep, they say Ashley is pleasantly surprised by her date with Ames, she has turned from hopeless Ashley to hopeful. But I feel they have to show a connection of some short with her F1 from the start, and I believe that's JP, they left the kiss comment in for a reeason too.

northernviewer wrote:Why does JP's conversation with Ashley have to be negative? both F1 and F2 have a conflict of sorts to overcome. Roberto - perfect guy and usually unattainable type for Allie but they chose each other and are happy to this day. Emily's story was one of doubt about whether or not she could love again. The story arc for both the F1 and F2 can have a positive or negative edge to it.... but we don't know for sure what it'll be until we know who the lead chooses in the end. Same with JP's....his past is either going to be why it won't work OR it'll be one of them taking a chance on love, a leap of faith and finally falling in love. Only time will reveal the answer for us.

who said it was negative?? Personally, for me, I'd be cautiousl of someone who serial dates especially after having my heart broken a couple hours earlier.

I’m a viewer, just like everyone else, and we all interpret what we see differently. I watch the show for edits/red flags in helping me determine who they’re trying to tell us is F1. Others watch for a love story. Many folks saw Ash/JPs date as the beginning of their love story (and maybe it is). I looked at it as information gathering, looking for information that may make him F1 through editing – I’m not looking for information to support him being F1 – I hope that makes sense. I guess the best way to describe is that I’m watching as if I don’t know who F1 is and am trying to put the puzzle pieces (edit) together to support the outcome.

northernviewer wrote:Why does JP's conversation with Ashley have to be negative? both F1 and F2 have a conflict of sorts to overcome. Roberto - perfect guy and usually unattainable type for Allie but they chose each other and are happy to this day. Emily's story was one of doubt about whether or not she could love again. The story arc for both the F1 and F2 can have a positive or negative edge to it.... but we don't know for sure what it'll be until we know who the lead chooses in the end. Same with JP's....his past is either going to be why it won't work OR it'll be one of them taking a chance on love, a leap of faith and finally falling in love. Only time will reveal the answer for us.

Again, if JP is the F1, the edit (including bio, etc.) may reflect what the producers think of the relationship's chances as we have seen in the past.

nd4reality wrote:

anders wrote:

LibbyBell wrote:

Alexxxx wrote:Great convo going on this morning. The point about figuring out why something is left in the edit is crucial to understanding what we're watching. It was pointed out elsewhere that Ashley and JP ordered in chinese food and she actually fell asleep in his arms on their date, but that was cut out of the edit. And yet, they left in the part about his dating history. There's a reason they make the choices they do in the editing bay.

Alexxxx, I totally agree with this. However, I think that most times, the reason is to plant doubt about the person not to explain. It's called stirring the pot or fanning the flame where there might not otherwise be a fire!

But we don’t know that yet – that’s part of this whole storytelling thing – we don’t know exactly how this plays out in episodes to come, but it will be part of JP and/or Ashley’s story.

As Alexxx said - great convo.

Just throwing out another thought here..............

We know that the F1 always has some hurdle to overcome right ? So perhaps this is JPs hurdle and thats why they are leaving it in the edit ?

Exactly – that’s exactly my point – is this something that JP has to overcome or is unable to, is this something Ashley has to overcome, is this something Ashley cannot overcome? This is what we don’t know – but will likely play into his/her/their story.

Or if Ben is F1 then JP/Ash were not able to overcome.

anders wrote:

northernviewer wrote:Why does JP's conversation with Ashley have to be negative? both F1 and F2 have a conflict of sorts to overcome. Roberto - perfect guy and usually unattainable type for Allie but they chose each other and are happy to this day. Emily's story was one of doubt about whether or not she could love again. The story arc for both the F1 and F2 can have a positive or negative edge to it.... but we don't know for sure what it'll be until we know who the lead chooses in the end. Same with JP's....his past is either going to be why it won't work OR it'll be one of them taking a chance on love, a leap of faith and finally falling in love. Only time will reveal the answer for us.

who said it was negative?? Personally, for me, I'd be cautiousl of someone who serial dates especially after having my heart broken a couple hours earlier.

I’m a viewer, just like everyone else, and we all interpret what we see differently. I watch the show for edits/red flags in helping me determine who they’re trying to tell us is F1. Others watch for a love story. Many folks saw Ash/JPs date as the beginning of their love story (and maybe it is). I looked at it as information gathering, looking for information that may make him F1 through editing – I’m not looking for information to support him being F1 – I hope that makes sense. I guess the best way to describe is that I’m watching as if I don’t know who F1 is and am trying to put the puzzle pieces (edit) together to support the outcome.

I think we're on the same page, just using a different font to express ourselves :winkie:

JP's conversation is definitely noteworthy, no arguing that point but just not telling the whole story yet. I think I'd be more concerned about JP if he'd had the 2 1/2 yr relationship in his early 20's and then it was followed by all the short ones, but with it being the other way around and him going into a long relationship at 30, that just tell's me that he's ready to settle down but the last girl just wasn't the one.

nd4reality wrote:

anders wrote:

LibbyBell wrote:

Alexxxx wrote:Great convo going on this morning. The point about figuring out why something is left in the edit is crucial to understanding what we're watching. It was pointed out elsewhere that Ashley and JP ordered in chinese food and she actually fell asleep in his arms on their date, but that was cut out of the edit. And yet, they left in the part about his dating history. There's a reason they make the choices they do in the editing bay.

Alexxxx, I totally agree with this. However, I think that most times, the reason is to plant doubt about the person not to explain. It's called stirring the pot or fanning the flame where there might not otherwise be a fire!

But we don’t know that yet – that’s part of this whole storytelling thing – we don’t know exactly how this plays out in episodes to come, but it will be part of JP and/or Ashley’s story.

As Alexxx said - great convo.

Just throwing out another thought here..............

We know that the F1 always has some hurdle to overcome right ? So perhaps this is JPs hurdle and thats why they are leaving it in the edit ?

This is what I'm thinking as well, although it could go either way; if he is F1, he will be shown overcoming this hurdle, but if he is F2, this hurdle will be why. In my memory, they almost always discuss past dating history/patterns of the contestants on their dates (that's unfortunately all they seem to discuss, so the editors must consistently leave these conversations in the edit and remove the ones about the more interesting and normal subjects people generally discuss on dates), so I see this as nothing unusual. For the past few days, there has been much talk about how great and perfect JP is, so now we have found his possible "flaw", at least from the show's point of view.

Since he has yet to have exes coming out of the woodwork complaining about how he broke their hearts or misled them, I don't see JP's comments as clear evidence of a "dater and dasher"; saying that "it" wasn't there with these other women could have been a mutual feeling, but he was just the one who typically ended it, we really don't know from the little info given. Young professionals living in NYC tend to be very picky and not in a rush to marry in their 20's, and I suspect that JP is just one of those (much like Chris L was once). I really doubt he's someone to be wary of, but this "is he finally ready to settle down with Ashley?" may just be the storyline assigned to him.

Bloomers wrote:

northernviewer wrote:Why does JP's conversation with Ashley have to be negative? both F1 and F2 have a conflict of sorts to overcome. Roberto - perfect guy and usually unattainable type for Allie but they chose each other and are happy to this day. Emily's story was one of doubt about whether or not she could love again. The story arc for both the F1 and F2 can have a positive or negative edge to it.... but we don't know for sure what it'll be until we know who the lead chooses in the end. Same with JP's....his past is either going to be why it won't work OR it'll be one of them taking a chance on love, a leap of faith and finally falling in love. Only time will reveal the answer for us.

Again, if JP is the F1, the edit (including bio, etc.) may reflect what the producers think of the relationship's chances as we have seen in the past.

My biggest fear for Ashley is that the picky JP will dump her once they are out of the bubble.

I think this season should be called "The Season of Insecurity". I have a feeling that JP's conversation with Ash is going to be just one of many and that a few other guys will all talk about the same thing, just to highlight how Ashley has so many doubts about who can love her. The other night at the roast, what was highlighted? small boobs and how the guys wished she wasn't the 'ette. Ya, that's gonna make a girl feel good about herself!!

I know many have concentrated on JP telling Ash about his dating history, but what thought was most noteworthy was when he told her to quit apologizing. I think he could be the guy that helps her to build some self esteem as she clearly has none at this point. She almost seems to feel bad for the guys that she's the Bachelorette and is doubting that they'll even stay... and with Bentley leaving that's only going to reinforce that doubt in her mind.

northernviewer wrote:I think this season should be called "The Season of Insecurity". I have a feeling that JP's conversation with Ash is going to be just one of many and that a few other guys will all talk about the same thing, just to highlight how Ashley has so many doubts about who can love her. The other night at the roast, what was highlighted? small boobs and how the guys wished she wasn't the 'ette. Ya, that's gonna make a girl feel good about herself!!

I know many have concentrated on JP telling Ash about his dating history, but what thought was most noteworthy was when he told her to quit apologizing. I think he could be the guy that helps her to build some self esteem as she clearly has none at this point. She almost seems to feel bad for the guys that she's the Bachelorette and is doubting that they'll even stay... and with Bentley leaving that's only going to reinforce that doubt in her mind.

I agree with this. I think he will build her up as I hope the other guys do as well (Ryan did at the roast after party). He told her to stop apologizing as well as told her she looked gorgeous when he first came to the door, said he liked her - a lot - when she was in her jammies, that he really wanted to be there, etc. I think this has to help her self esteem. Whether it is mutual on her part and he is F1 I guess we will have to wait and see. But I think JP seems to like her a lot and is doing a good job of expressing it to her and hopefully that will help her throughout the process.

noobsleuth wrote:

Bloomers wrote:

northernviewer wrote:Why does JP's conversation with Ashley have to be negative? both F1 and F2 have a conflict of sorts to overcome. Roberto - perfect guy and usually unattainable type for Allie but they chose each other and are happy to this day. Emily's story was one of doubt about whether or not she could love again. The story arc for both the F1 and F2 can have a positive or negative edge to it.... but we don't know for sure what it'll be until we know who the lead chooses in the end. Same with JP's....his past is either going to be why it won't work OR it'll be one of them taking a chance on love, a leap of faith and finally falling in love. Only time will reveal the answer for us.

Again, if JP is the F1, the edit (including bio, etc.) may reflect what the producers think of the relationship's chances as we have seen in the past.

My biggest fear for Ashley is that the picky JP will dump her once they are out of the bubble.

And that's why I wonder if it did/could happen and that convo was left in to help the audience see why the relationship didn't last.