Episode 3 - 6/6 - Discussion - Spoilers

northernviewer wrote:

jojo47 wrote:This is my theory on why MF had both the roast and Bentley as part of this season's show.

I think MF may have had the same concerns as Ashley; many would be hoping for Emily/Chantal as the B'ette and Ashley may be a disappointment to viewers. What MF needed to do to combat this is increase the attachment to Ashley. He's done this by having the viewers pity what she's gone thru and genuinely want a happy ending for her because she's been thru hell ~ with both the roast and Bentley.

In Epi 3 he's made the viewers feel disgust because of how's she's been treated. We know how mankind can rally, so she'll go from third runner up to a lead where viewers will watch to see if she ends up happy.

We'll watch her love story build and she may get closure/revenge with the Bentley fiasco in Hong Kong.

Guess what, if this is MF's plan, it may have just worked for him.

I think you're giving MF too much credit in the empathy department I think he just capitalized on Ashley's insecurities about being 3rd choice for most as to who the 'ette would be. The creep :geek: is all about ratings and drama.

I don't think MF has empathy for Ashley, but he'll do just as you say and capitalize by making the viewers have empathy for her.

Is that why he was salivating with glee about last night's episode?? Because he wanted us to emphathize with Ashley - not...he was salivating at the thought of last night's show being THE MOST TALKED about episode of the franchise - because he's scum like that.

jojo47 wrote:

northernviewer wrote:

jojo47 wrote:This is my theory on why MF had both the roast and Bentley as part of this season's show.

I think MF may have had the same concerns as Ashley; many would be hoping for Emily/Chantal as the B'ette and Ashley may be a disappointment to viewers. What MF needed to do to combat this is increase the attachment to Ashley. He's done this by having the viewers pity what she's gone thru and genuinely want a happy ending for her because she's been thru hell ~ with both the roast and Bentley.

In Epi 3 he's made the viewers feel disgust because of how's she's been treated. We know how mankind can rally, so she'll go from third runner up to a lead where viewers will watch to see if she ends up happy.

We'll watch her love story build and she may get closure/revenge with the Bentley fiasco in Hong Kong.

Guess what, if this is MF's plan, it may have just worked for him.

I think you're giving MF too much credit in the empathy department I think he just capitalized on Ashley's insecurities about being 3rd choice for most as to who the 'ette would be. The creep :geek: is all about ratings and drama.

I don't think MF has empathy for Ashley, but he'll do just as you say and capitalize by making the viewers have empathy for her.

He may have overplayed his hand there. Lots of people were completely turned off by all her carrying on last night. There's empathy for somebody that's been treated wrong, and there's impatience with somebody that just doesn't get it even after being beaten over the head. I still think Ashley is a sympathetic character, and hope she triumphs in the end, but it's feeling more and more like a Jill/Ed season to me and that's one I don't ever want to re-live.

jojo47 wrote:

northernviewer wrote:

jojo47 wrote:This is my theory on why MF had both the roast and Bentley as part of this season's show.

I think MF may have had the same concerns as Ashley; many would be hoping for Emily/Chantal as the B'ette and Ashley may be a disappointment to viewers. What MF needed to do to combat this is increase the attachment to Ashley. He's done this by having the viewers pity what she's gone thru and genuinely want a happy ending for her because she's been thru hell ~ with both the roast and Bentley.

In Epi 3 he's made the viewers feel disgust because of how's she's been treated. We know how mankind can rally, so she'll go from third runner up to a lead where viewers will watch to see if she ends up happy.

We'll watch her love story build and she may get closure/revenge with the Bentley fiasco in Hong Kong.

Guess what, if this is MF's plan, it may have just worked for him.

I think you're giving MF too much credit in the empathy department I think he just capitalized on Ashley's insecurities about being 3rd choice for most as to who the 'ette would be. The creep :geek: is all about ratings and drama.

I don't think MF has empathy for Ashley, but he'll do just as you say and capitalize by making the viewers have empathy for her.

Maybe, but I think if we felt sorry for Ashley and it helps ratings.... that was just a perk for him, nothing intentional on his part.

All last night's show is make me question watching any further episodes.

I did not like last night's episode. Of course Fleiss is happy today. The ratings went up 18% from last week's show. Fleiss is laughing all the way to the bank.

jojo47 wrote:

northernviewer wrote:

jojo47 wrote:This is my theory on why MF had both the roast and Bentley as part of this season's show.

I think MF may have had the same concerns as Ashley; many would be hoping for Emily/Chantal as the B'ette and Ashley may be a disappointment to viewers. What MF needed to do to combat this is increase the attachment to Ashley. He's done this by having the viewers pity what she's gone thru and genuinely want a happy ending for her because she's been thru hell ~ with both the roast and Bentley.

In Epi 3 he's made the viewers feel disgust because of how's she's been treated. We know how mankind can rally, so she'll go from third runner up to a lead where viewers will watch to see if she ends up happy.

We'll watch her love story build and she may get closure/revenge with the Bentley fiasco in Hong Kong.

Guess what, if this is MF's plan, it may have just worked for him.

I think you're giving MF too much credit in the empathy department I think he just capitalized on Ashley's insecurities about being 3rd choice for most as to who the 'ette would be. The creep :geek: is all about ratings and drama.

I don't think MF has empathy for Ashley, but he'll do just as you say and capitalize by making the viewers have empathy for her.

ITA with what's written above. It's not because MF has empathy for Ashley, not even close. But he had to find a way to make this season work, knowing that it might have lower viewership since his lead this season wasn't the fan favorites of last season. So he did exactly what was stated above -- highlighted Ashley's underdog status so that we'd root for her and invest in her happiness.

I don't underestimate him -- I believe they planned it this way. They edited it this way (even though frankly, I'm not buying the majority of what we saw last night. It was very clearly edited and spliced, and almost all of the 'emotional statements' Ashley made about Bentley weren't about him, actually.) But they started with a lackluster season and Frankensteined it into a monster, with the WORST villain in any season so far. His ratings boosted, people watched, and now they want to know that Ashley will be okay.

The man may not have a heart, but he's definitely got a brain.

Alexxxx wrote:
He may have overplayed his hand there. Lots of people were completely turned off by all her carrying on last night. There's empathy for somebody that's been treated wrong, and there's impatience with somebody that just doesn't get it even after being beaten over the head. I still think Ashley is a sympathetic character, and hope she triumphs in the end, but it's feeling more and more like a Jill/Ed season to me and that's one I don't ever want to re-live.

I wonder if he's sort of planning that, though? There are a lot of similarities in seasons...heck, even down to the very Jillian/Ed-esque moment of Ashley and Mickey kissing. They haven't done Ashley any favors so far -- they've made her into a reckless woman who ignores advice and supposedly falls for the bad guy anyway. He's probably banking that most women at one time or another, have a guy like that in their past, and that we'll root for her to move on. So even if people aren't happy about Ashley's alleged feelings for Bentley, we still consider her sympathetic.

Looking at this as if it were fiction, Fleiss has created a terrific storyline, down to Bentley's eventual return. That right there is Ashley's chance at proving her own worth to the audience who didn't like seeing her "fall" for Bentley. She gets to stand up for herself by wishing him well and sending him home.

On another note, making Bentley the worst villain ever on the show also makes these otherwise regular, nice guys (as they seem so far) seem like complete catches. (Except for William, he's not coming off so well right now.) But her final four? Yup-- definitely. It wouldn't matter WHO she chooses, really - they are all leaps and bounds better than the jackass who left her and we will cheer that she didn't choose HIM.

connorsmom wrote:

jojo47 wrote:

northernviewer wrote:

jojo47 wrote:This is my theory on why MF had both the roast and Bentley as part of this season's show.

I think MF may have had the same concerns as Ashley; many would be hoping for Emily/Chantal as the B'ette and Ashley may be a disappointment to viewers. What MF needed to do to combat this is increase the attachment to Ashley. He's done this by having the viewers pity what she's gone thru and genuinely want a happy ending for her because she's been thru hell ~ with both the roast and Bentley.

In Epi 3 he's made the viewers feel disgust because of how's she's been treated. We know how mankind can rally, so she'll go from third runner up to a lead where viewers will watch to see if she ends up happy.

We'll watch her love story build and she may get closure/revenge with the Bentley fiasco in Hong Kong.

Guess what, if this is MF's plan, it may have just worked for him.

I think you're giving MF too much credit in the empathy department I think he just capitalized on Ashley's insecurities about being 3rd choice for most as to who the 'ette would be. The creep :geek: is all about ratings and drama.

I don't think MF has empathy for Ashley, but he'll do just as you say and capitalize by making the viewers have empathy for her.

ITA with what's written above. It's not because MF has empathy for Ashley, not even close. But he had to find a way to make this season work, knowing that it might have lower viewership since his lead this season wasn't the fan favorites of last season. So he did exactly what was stated above -- highlighted Ashley's underdog status so that we'd root for her and invest in her happiness.

I don't underestimate him -- I believe they planned it this way. They edited it this way (even though frankly, I'm not buying the majority of what we saw last night. It was very clearly edited and spliced, and almost all of the 'emotional statements' Ashley made about Bentley weren't about him, actually.) But they started with a lackluster season and Frankensteined it into a monster, with the WORST villain in any season so far. His ratings boosted, people watched, and now they want to know that Ashley will be okay.

The man may not have a heart, but he's definitely got a brain.

I feel exactly as you do about this season and Mike Fleiss. And as I stated above, I think it will work for him.

As I am rewatching the show, and especially the Bentley part, I think that Bentley's sole reason for coming on the show was to see if he could derail the show. CH has stated that production almost came to a stop and I think that is what Bentley was after. He tried once by telling Ashley, "come with me", "back to Salt Lake City". Then when she said, no I can't, that was when he said he wanted to keep the "dot, dot, dot". IF Ashley were to have taken his bait, I am quite sure that his plan would have been to dump her very painfully on TV. I think his goal was to do "what has never been done before." In his mind, any publicity is good publicity as long as they spell your name right.

Max64 wrote:For Ashley to have a happy ending and viewers believe it, Bentley has to return to give her some closure. TP needed to show Ashley having a connection to someone prior to Bentley leaving (JP). They showed JP being there for the "right reasons", and Ashley realizing JP is someone she can lean on. I liked what JP said, "We can touch on Bentley leaving, and then put it behind us, tonight is about Ashley and I". Ashley has such low self esteem, I think JP is really good for her. I liked that he reassured her that he was there for the her, he always says she's gorgeous, and I loved that he told her to quit apologizing. Her demeanor changed and she seemed more confident after that, she needs that.

I would bet that in the recap of next weeks show, Ashley will talk about how difficult it was for Bentley to leave but she was happy to have JP with her, that it was just what she needed... or something to that effect. Convenient the kiss comment was left in too.. :lovekiss: Now with Bentley gone Ashley will be open to explore other relationships, and they'll probably show her as more confident. JP will be there again for her when Bentley returns, convenient his return in the same ep of JP's next 1-1 date. Ashley promised him it would be better, but for it to be better, she will need to turn Bentley away before her date with JP.

I'm apologizing in advance, but I'm going to really nitpick here. What JP said was that the night would be about "me and Ashley". Yay!!! Finally a person on this show who knows the proper usage of his pronouns!!! If I wasn't already a fan of the nice Jewish boy from LI (as a NJG from LI myself), I would be after last night's episode.

I have a hard time believing that Ashley was so madly in love with Bentley after knowing him a week or two that she couldn't recover from it. I don't think you can compare the situation to Deanna and Graham, who stayed through the HTDs. Ashley was extremely infatuated with Bentley, partly due to his singular plan to turn on the charm and woo her non-stop, as opposed to the other men there, who presumably were also interested in trying to get to know her to see if they had a connection, as opposed to just focusing on convincing her that they did. And yes, he's really good at that; as are all sociopaths (if he is one). I think with situations like this, as quickly as Ashley was charmed into believing something was really there, those feelings will not be long lasting now that he is gone, although I'm sure the editors will try to convince us they are, until Bentley returns for part 2 and Ashley is allowed to redeem herself (and give the whole female audience their revenge) by soundly kicking him to the curb.

I don't think that MF's plan this season was one of sympathy for Ashely. I think MF was going for guy drama, especially with Bentley... and the return of Bentley, which is not being hidden and Ash even mentioned it in her blog - just to make sure everybody stays tuned to see how that unfolds. It's no secret that Ashley wasn't 1st or 2nd choice for 'ette as it was Chantal's for the asking as she would have given us a blockbuster season... guaranteed!! and if Emily would have jumped in after breaking up with Brad ( or should I say stayed broke up with him, instead of doing the on/off thing ) she would have been the ideal 'ettte for Fleiss. No offense to Ashley, but I think we all knew going in to this that it was going to be a bland season. So Fleiss cast the guys for drama, cause you just know that Fleiss found out enough about Bentley to know that he'd give them the footage they needed to showcase his less than desirable personality **gag** I havent read all the spoilers yet, but I did read that Ryan is supposed to come back too at some point. Fleiss purposely did a roast night as he knew Ashley's insecurities would cause some tears. I don't think this is a "sympathy" season but a drama and tears season.... purely for ratings and to get the the tabloids to pick up on this and run with it. And besides, Fleiss doens't know the meaning of empathy and sypmathy so how would he know how to use it? :winkie: