Episode 3 - 6/6 - Discussion - Spoilers

I think Fleiss got this season in the can, looked at it, and decided it was a snoozefest...

Then he went to work figuring out how to make lemonade out of his lemons...

Which is why, in my opinion, what we see with our own eyes happening on the screen with Bentley, rarely matches the edited in voiceovers... If the voice overs and extaneous 'information' wasn't in the equation, we would see a guy who Ashley seemed interested in, leaving because he was conflicted about missing his daughter...

I know it's a difficult, if not impossible, exercise, but just try to divorce the voiceovers and statements from Chris H et al, from the images and see if you come to a slightly different conclusion.

Max64 wrote:For Ashley to have a happy ending and viewers believe it, Bentley has to return to give her some closure. TP needed to show Ashley having a connection to someone prior to Bentley leaving (JP). They showed JP being there for the "right reasons", and Ashley realizing JP is someone she can lean on. I liked what JP said, "We can touch on Bentley leaving, and then put it behind us, tonight is about Ashley and I". Ashley has such low self esteem, I think JP is really good for her. I liked that he reassured her that he was there for the her, he always says she's gorgeous, and I loved that he told her to quit apologizing. Her demeanor changed and she seemed more confident after that, she needs that.

I would bet that in the recap of next weeks show, Ashley will talk about how difficult it was for Bentley to leave but she was happy to have JP with her, that it was just what she needed... or something to that effect. Convenient the kiss comment was left in too.. :lovekiss: Now with Bentley gone Ashley will be open to explore other relationships, and they'll probably show her as more confident. JP will be there again for her when Bentley returns, convenient his return in the same ep of JP's next 1-1 date. Ashley promised him it would be better, but for it to be better, she will need to turn Bentley away before her date with JP.

That would be great if she were to turn Bently away right before her date with JP, but there is a photo somewhere out there showing his return an she looks pretty happy to see him. Hopefully, she realizes he is a dirt bag and confidently goes to her date with JP.

I was comparing JP's date to Chris L on Ali's season. Both JP and Chris did not care what kind of date they had they just wanted to be with the bette. Both, were consoling the bette, one heart sick the other sick with the flu and both brought the bette flowers. How sweet.The only thing is that Chris ended up being the F2. This makes me doubt RS spoiler.

Wow. What an episode. :Frown:

First off, I feel bad for Ashley because she has no idea how to read body language. He wouldn't even look her in the face when he was lying through his teeth. That said, I hope she gets the opportunity after all this is said and done to give him a big piece of her mind. He's a class A douchebag. Sure she's gullible but that doesn't give him any right to use that against her. I'm so angry at him.

William.....I think he really feels bad, but I'm a little mad at him, too. I hope he redeems himself though because I think he IS a nice guy.

JP....what a sweetie pie! That date could have been so awkward and tense. He is the reason it wasn't. His momma should be very proud of him right now. She did a good job of raising that young man.

Jeff.....I'm not a fan, but that man does have beautiful eyes. They are really striking against his dark hair and complexion. I hope there is a lovely woman out there for him.

This season just had a different feel to it than all the others. I can't put my finger on why exactly but it's odd.

happy2bme wrote:

Max64 wrote:For Ashley to have a happy ending and viewers believe it, Bentley has to return to give her some closure. TP needed to show Ashley having a connection to someone prior to Bentley leaving (JP). They showed JP being there for the "right reasons", and Ashley realizing JP is someone she can lean on. I liked what JP said, "We can touch on Bentley leaving, and then put it behind us, tonight is about Ashley and I". Ashley has such low self esteem, I think JP is really good for her. I liked that he reassured her that he was there for the her, he always says she's gorgeous, and I loved that he told her to quit apologizing. Her demeanor changed and she seemed more confident after that, she needs that.

I would bet that in the recap of next weeks show, Ashley will talk about how difficult it was for Bentley to leave but she was happy to have JP with her, that it was just what she needed... or something to that effect. Convenient the kiss comment was left in too.. :lovekiss: Now with Bentley gone Ashley will be open to explore other relationships, and they'll probably show her as more confident. JP will be there again for her when Bentley returns, convenient his return in the same ep of JP's next 1-1 date. Ashley promised him it would be better, but for it to be better, she will need to turn Bentley away before her date with JP.

That would be great if she were to turn Bently away right before her date with JP, but there is a photo somewhere out there showing his return an she looks pretty happy to see him. Hopefully, she realizes he is a dirt bag and confidently goes to her date with JP.

I was comparing JP's date to Chris L on Ali's season. Both JP and Chris did not care what kind of date they had they just wanted to be with the bette. Both, were consoling the bette, one heart sick the other sick with the flu and both brought the bette flowers. How sweet.The only thing is that Chris ended up being the F2. This makes me doubt RS spoiler.

Not only does she look happy to see The Bent One return, she lays a big kiss on him. This, after she has other dates with other guys that supposedly mean something to her at the end.

I made the Ali/ChrisL/flu date connection also. That date was all about Chris comforting Ali, making her feel better, being completely unselfish and giving to her. Last night's date with JP looked the same way. And she was still wound up about The Bent One at the RC, after her date with JP. We now know that even though it looked like something romantic was happening between Ali & Chris, that wasn't the case on Ali's part. In order for me to believe the Ashley/JP pairing is a great romance, I'm going to have to see some selfless, passionate interest on Ashley's part. If their second date is JP comforting Ashley about The Bent One once again, it won't do much to further a romance imo. I mean, empathy and understanding is certainly an important part of a serious relationship, but there's a lot more to it than just that. If we don't see it, how will we believe it at the FRC?

happy2bme wrote:

Max64 wrote:For Ashley to have a happy ending and viewers believe it, Bentley has to return to give her some closure. TP needed to show Ashley having a connection to someone prior to Bentley leaving (JP). They showed JP being there for the "right reasons", and Ashley realizing JP is someone she can lean on. I liked what JP said, "We can touch on Bentley leaving, and then put it behind us, tonight is about Ashley and I". Ashley has such low self esteem, I think JP is really good for her. I liked that he reassured her that he was there for the her, he always says she's gorgeous, and I loved that he told her to quit apologizing. Her demeanor changed and she seemed more confident after that, she needs that.

I would bet that in the recap of next weeks show, Ashley will talk about how difficult it was for Bentley to leave but she was happy to have JP with her, that it was just what she needed... or something to that effect. Convenient the kiss comment was left in too.. :lovekiss: Now with Bentley gone Ashley will be open to explore other relationships, and they'll probably show her as more confident. JP will be there again for her when Bentley returns, convenient his return in the same ep of JP's next 1-1 date. Ashley promised him it would be better, but for it to be better, she will need to turn Bentley away before her date with JP.

That would be great if she were to turn Bently away right before her date with JP, but there is a photo somewhere out there showing his return an she looks pretty happy to see him. Hopefully, she realizes he is a dirt bag and confidently goes to her date with JP.

I was comparing JP's date to Chris L on Ali's season. Both JP and Chris did not care what kind of date they had they just wanted to be with the bette. Both, were consoling the bette, one heart sick the other sick with the flu and both brought the bette flowers. How sweet.The only thing is that Chris ended up being the F2. This makes me doubt RS spoiler.

But JP got 3rd episode date just like Roberto plus JP got the reassurance to be patient and hang in there 2nd episode just like Roberto and Chris L 1/1 date was either 4th or 5 th episode just like Ben F and Ben F gets a scooter ride just like Chris L Ben F story very similar to Chris L a deceased father so all of this could be debatable as far as the edit goes

Chris L remains my all time fave from this crazy franchise. One of the best guys evah! Along with Reid and Graham I now add Ben to my list of "sweethearts".

So happy Chris and Peyton found each other.

I posted this in the media thread, but since this is about last night's epiosode, I wanted to put it here as well.
Fleiss not only ticked off the audience, he ticked off past contestants and that's saying something, cause they should know the drill.

Never thought I'd give Jesse C. and bravo!! He called out Mike Fleiss:
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/06/exclusive-blog-why-jesse-csincsak-feels-sorry-%E2%80%98bachelorette%E2%80%99-ashley

Ashley kissing Bentley hello when he returns doesn't mean she is still gaga over him (and only him) at that point (unless they start making out then and there). She was apparently not told by producers what a douche he was (and that he wasn't into her), so she probably still believes he is a nice guy who cared for her, but missed his daughter. I'm sure she's happy to see him at that point, but that doesn't preclude her from also having developed as strong, or stronger, feelings for other guys by then. And she can still be curious to hear why he came back, and happy to consider throwing him back "in the mix" as well, as one more "option". My guess is that based on how he acts, or what he says, she finally buys a clue that the guy is bad news and sends him away, providing closure for both herself and the viewers. And that she doesn't kiss him goodbye either.

jojo47 wrote:

connorsmom wrote:

ITA with what's written above. It's not because MF has empathy for Ashley, not even close. But he had to find a way to make this season work, knowing that it might have lower viewership since his lead this season wasn't the fan favorites of last season. So he did exactly what was stated above -- highlighted Ashley's underdog status so that we'd root for her and invest in her happiness.

I don't underestimate him -- I believe they planned it this way. They edited it this way (even though frankly, I'm not buying the majority of what we saw last night. It was very clearly edited and spliced, and almost all of the 'emotional statements' Ashley made about Bentley weren't about him, actually.) But they started with a lackluster season and Frankensteined it into a monster, with the WORST villain in any season so far. His ratings boosted, people watched, and now they want to know that Ashley will be okay.

The man may not have a heart, but he's definitely got a brain.

I feel exactly as you do about this season and Mike Fleiss. And as I stated above, I think it will work for him.

I'm going to piggy back on this line of thinking and agree with you guys. Ultimately, they want us to root for the lead and there is no better way to convince the audience to root for the lead when she just got crushed. Yeah, she was annoying with all the carrying-on about a dbag she was warned about, but at the same time, the millions of female fans and their mommy instincts are all up in arms about what's going on right now.

When Ashley redeems herself in ep6 by sending him away, she's going to be doing it on behalf "of all women in America." Thanks for the idea, Chantal!

One more thing, I loved JP riding in on a black Mercedes (white horse) to save the day. Not only did Ashley need some comforting and soothing but the audience was desperate for it too and he absolutely delivered for both Ashley and us. I also really appreciated that they left in that ITM that his kisses are better. :lovekiss:

ironcat wrote:Ashley kissing Bentley hello when he returns doesn't mean she is still gaga over him (and only him) at that point (unless they start making out then and there). She was apparently not told by producers what a douche he was (and that he wasn't into her), so she probably still believes he is a nice guy who cared for her, but missed his daughter. I'm sure she's happy to see him at that point, but that doesn't preclude her from also having developed as strong, or stronger, feelings for other guys by then. And she can still be curious to hear why he came back, and happy to consider throwing him back "in the mix" as well, as one more "option". My guess is that based on how he acts, or what he says, she finally buys a clue that the guy is bad news and sends him away, providing closure for both herself and the viewers. And that she doesn't kiss him goodbye either.

This is a comment on a post from a blog from one of Bentley's friends (so apparently he does say some bad things when he comes to Hong Kong - not sure if he says them to her face or in PIs:
"I know Bentley looks like a total Douche on the bachelorette, but it's tv...reality tv. I know him really well, and he is actually a really great guy. ABC made him look that way, and edited what he said to make him look like that. The truth will come out, however, Bentley is under contract and isn't at liberty to say anything in his defense. They begged him to come back to Hong Kong and made him stay until he said certain "scripted" lines to play into the villan role. aka..remember when he was talking about the kiss with ashley? "It was good at first, and then just got worse". The producers asked him to describe their dance they were doing on stage, then used his answer for something else to make him look like a tool. Then all those bleeped words? Tickle my "bleep"? It was "Tickle my back". "

Okay since I was pretty out of it last night (flu-like symptoms) I really didn't watch the show with a lot of concentration. So I just rewatched it.I posted my observations in the Edit thread but I wanted to post them here as well.

JP
He reminds me a lot of how Chris L was with Ali when she was sick.He comforted her,tried to take her mind of Bentley. Even those 5 minutes was better than the rest of the show.
Ashley clearly plans for JP to stay around for awhile since she was already talking about their next date.

Ben C.
I didn't see any chemoistry between them and if I didn't already know that he got a rose I'd be really shocked that he did get one.
He seemed so nervous and that was the reason for him speaking really fast.
He seemed to have really high expectations,oes I honestly thought were unrealistic. He wants to live in a fairyale marriage and those aren't real.

Ames
We finally got a few VO's from him but we didn't get any 1 on 1 time with him and Ashley. Obviously she sees something she likes.

Ben F
Absolutely nothing. The camera panned to him a few times when the guys were sitting together and we got a couple of VO's I think.


As for Bentley I truly feel awful for Ashley. She wants a man who will say nice things about her because of her very low self esteem and Bentley gave her that and she lapped it all up.The whole ... reference was a clue that Bentley does return.Bentley used his daughter as a means to get out of the competition even though he was telling Ashley that he wanted to be real with her.Bentley fed Ashley every line in the book that guys say to girls when they are really into them.During Ashley's therapy with CH she actually said "I think I love that guy" in reference to Bentley and honestly I wonder if she was confusing lust for love?

Doats wrote:

I love it when my husband wears a bowtie and braces with his suits. It's just so...charming.

Suits? Someone has a husband who wears suits? And bow ties? I had a husband once who wore suits.... DUH has *a* suit. Pathetic. He's all about Hawaiian shirts and jeans. Dress up? *Blue* Hawaiian shirt, dark jeans, black Reeboks. 50th high school reunion (I'M Much Younger) - Hawaiian shirt and a camel hair jacket... oh, DUH...