The Bachelor 17 - Speculation/Spoilers - Discussion

anders wrote:

IrishGal wrote:Roberto is one of my all-time fave contestants so I was thrilled to hear the rumors that he might be next Bach. However, I must confess that as this season played out, I've fallen in love with Arie. I really want to see him find his perfect match. And his sense of humor would be so entertaining (remember "Doug sad, Doug mad"). Sean doesn't do much for me. I think he is a fine, up-standing young man but body builders turn me off. I just don't find their bodies attractive and the few I have known personally seemed very self-absorbed.

See, that part gives me pause. Did he actually fall in love with Emily and was he fully prepared for marriage?? Or was it situational, and all for entertainment. Of all the male leads – very very few are actually married even years after their seasons aired. Firestone, Beurge, Guiney (now divorced), Mesnick and most recently Stork are the only male leads married. I don’t’ think Arie stands any chance of finding anyone other than someone to date for a while and that’s why it doesn’t really matter to me who the lead is – the likelihood there’s a HEA is slim. Whoever does it has their own reasons, I don’t believe finding the love of their life is one of them.

This is a very telling fact that often gets ignored. Is it just coincidental that the vast majority of men who have served as the lead on this show were years away from actually getting married when they did so? Even of the ones you mentioned, Aaron and Travis both waited several years to wed, so it's really only 3 out of 15 who I think could honestly be considered "ready and desirous of a wife" when they filmed their season. Pretty awful stats, and no surprise then that the Bachelor often makes a terrible pick and that the "relationship" falls apart almost immediately.

That said, of the three, I suspect that Sean is probably most interested in getting married, with Roberto second and Arie last. That's not to say that all of them wouldn't be equally happy to end up with a girlfriend from the process.

anders wrote:why wouldn't the casual viewer not remember who Roberto is?? Just because folks are casual viewers doesn't mean they're not rabid fans who don't care to post about the show.

Anders, from people I talk with who watch the show but aren't avid followers, without prompting, don't remember who was who from several seasons back without a reminder.

nutty1 wrote:

anders wrote:why wouldn't the casual viewer not remember who Roberto is?? Just because folks are casual viewers doesn't mean they're not rabid fans who don't care to post about the show.

Anders, from people I talk with who watch the show but aren't avid followers, without prompting, don't remember who was who from several seasons back without a reminder.

IA and that reminder could be promo shots (if ever he's the next bach), of Roberto flashing that hot smile and body :Drool:, the "casual viewer" should remember him pronto or at best :Drool: over the next lead...it should do the trick, I would love Roberto, he's my 1st choice by far or someone we never even heard of... that would get my interest also.

ironcat wrote:

anders wrote:

IrishGal wrote:Roberto is one of my all-time fave contestants so I was thrilled to hear the rumors that he might be next Bach. However, I must confess that as this season played out, I've fallen in love with Arie. I really want to see him find his perfect match. And his sense of humor would be so entertaining (remember "Doug sad, Doug mad"). Sean doesn't do much for me. I think he is a fine, up-standing young man but body builders turn me off. I just don't find their bodies attractive and the few I have known personally seemed very self-absorbed.

See, that part gives me pause. Did he actually fall in love with Emily and was he fully prepared for marriage?? Or was it situational, and all for entertainment. Of all the male leads – very very few are actually married even years after their seasons aired. Firestone, Beurge, Guiney (now divorced), Mesnick and most recently Stork are the only male leads married. I don’t’ think Arie stands any chance of finding anyone other than someone to date for a while and that’s why it doesn’t really matter to me who the lead is – the likelihood there’s a HEA is slim. Whoever does it has their own reasons, I don’t believe finding the love of their life is one of them.

This is a very telling fact that often gets ignored. Is it just coincidental that the vast majority of men who have served as the lead on this show were years away from actually getting married when they did so? Even of the ones you mentioned, Aaron and Travis both waited several years to wed, so it's really only 3 out of 15 who I think could honestly be considered "ready and desirous of a wife" when they filmed their season. Pretty awful stats, and no surprise then that the Bachelor often makes a terrible pick and that the "relationship" falls apart almost immediately.

That said, of the three, I suspect that Sean is probably most interested in getting married, with Roberto second and Arie last. That's not to say that all of them wouldn't be equally happy to end up with a girlfriend from the process.

YES!! Finally, someone speaks the truth. I think that wanting your favorite pick because you want them to find love is the WORST reason. Let's be honest - Roberto, Arie, and Sean are all VERY attractive guys and could easily find a wife in the real world if they wanted. The only reason to even try to do it on TV (when you know that at least a portion of the girls are going to be there just to promote their careers/get into entertainment industry/etc.) is because of the other benefits, like money, travel, etc.

I do think Roberto was ready to get married, just because he moved across the country for his fiancee and didn't have anything to gain from it. I worry about Sean, because I think he's looking for a LT relationship now it's possible that he might be drawn into the entertainment industry. I love Arie, but I would be shocked if he got married anytime soon.

chasingpavements wrote:

ironcat wrote:

anders wrote:

IrishGal wrote:Roberto is one of my all-time fave contestants so I was thrilled to hear the rumors that he might be next Bach. However, I must confess that as this season played out, I've fallen in love with Arie. I really want to see him find his perfect match. And his sense of humor would be so entertaining (remember "Doug sad, Doug mad"). Sean doesn't do much for me. I think he is a fine, up-standing young man but body builders turn me off. I just don't find their bodies attractive and the few I have known personally seemed very self-absorbed.

See, that part gives me pause. Did he actually fall in love with Emily and was he fully prepared for marriage?? Or was it situational, and all for entertainment. Of all the male leads – very very few are actually married even years after their seasons aired. Firestone, Beurge, Guiney (now divorced), Mesnick and most recently Stork are the only male leads married. I don’t’ think Arie stands any chance of finding anyone other than someone to date for a while and that’s why it doesn’t really matter to me who the lead is – the likelihood there’s a HEA is slim. Whoever does it has their own reasons, I don’t believe finding the love of their life is one of them.

This is a very telling fact that often gets ignored. Is it just coincidental that the vast majority of men who have served as the lead on this show were years away from actually getting married when they did so? Even of the ones you mentioned, Aaron and Travis both waited several years to wed, so it's really only 3 out of 15 who I think could honestly be considered "ready and desirous of a wife" when they filmed their season. Pretty awful stats, and no surprise then that the Bachelor often makes a terrible pick and that the "relationship" falls apart almost immediately.

That said, of the three, I suspect that Sean is probably most interested in getting married, with Roberto second and Arie last. That's not to say that all of them wouldn't be equally happy to end up with a girlfriend from the process.

YES!! Finally, someone speaks the truth. I think that wanting your favorite pick because you want them to find love is the WORST reason. Let's be honest - Roberto, Arie, and Sean are all VERY attractive guys and could easily find a wife in the real world if they wanted. The only reason to even try to do it on TV (when you know that at least a portion of the girls are going to be there just to promote their careers/get into entertainment industry/etc.) is because of the other benefits, like money, travel, etc.

I do think Roberto was ready to get married, just because he moved across the country for his fiancee and didn't have anything to gain from it. I worry about Sean, because I think he's looking for a LT relationship now it's possible that he might be drawn into the entertainment industry. I love Arie, but I would be shocked if he got married anytime soon.

Arie's going to be 31 in a month. He's three years older than Sean. He was in a LT relationship with a single mom that was headed toward marriage. They were living together, he was parenting the kids. Most of the guys his age in the racing world are married with a few kids so he sees that around him all the time. His father claims he's ready to get married. I kind of think maybe he is and just hasn't found the right woman. Is he going to find her on a TV show? Probably not. But while he's looking, he gets to do a lot of fun stuff, gets to travel to interesting places and increases his visibility for racing sponsorships. And he gets a cool wardrobe and gets paid. Who wouldn't want to do that?

I also think Sean is ready to get married. His sister is married with kids and he sees that everyday and wants that for himself. Between him and Arie, I thought Sean was the more skeptical of the two as to the process actually working. I thought that he held back for a long time before actually allowing himself to fall for Emily. But it seemed to work for him and I think it could again.

Roberto is the only one of these three who has actually "won" the show and been engaged as a result. I think he'd be the most doubtful about whether this was going to work for him again. Finding love TWICE on a reality dating show. What are the odds on that?

kate123 wrote: Roberto is the only one of these three who has actually "won" the show and been engaged as a result. I think he'd be the most doubtful about whether this was going to work for him again. Finding love TWICE on a reality dating show. What are the odds on that?

i don't know - you may want to refer to Em/1F...??

Actually, if you look at the track record -- the people who have went on the show and not "won" and then returned to the show as a lead the second time around have had much success so far...

Ashley & JP
Jason & Molly
Trista & Ryan
Ben & Courtney
Emily & Jef (new but still)


ETA: In fact, is there a single couple from the show that did not include a lead who was on before?

anders wrote:

kate123 wrote: Roberto is the only one of these three who has actually "won" the show and been engaged as a result. I think he'd be the most doubtful about whether this was going to work for him again. Finding love TWICE on a reality dating show. What are the odds on that?

i don't know - you may want to refer to Em/1F...??

Emily is the only one in the same situation as Roberto. They both won, they both broke up with their true loves and Emily found love again. We're still pretty early in the Jef/Emily relationship. We'll probably be able to evaluate that one better in another year. I'm not willing to concede that's going to be a lifelong commitment yet.

The others listed below didn't "win" their show. They came in second or third.
Ashley & JP
Jason & Molly
Trista & Ryan
Ben & Courtney

So by this measure, Arie should be able to find love. Or Sean since they were in the same position as Ashley, Trista and Ben. Losers first, then winners. I don't know Jason, but was he F2 on a season? Didn't his romance happen outside of the show?

kate123 wrote:

anders wrote:

kate123 wrote: Roberto is the only one of these three who has actually "won" the show and been engaged as a result. I think he'd be the most doubtful about whether this was going to work for him again. Finding love TWICE on a reality dating show. What are the odds on that?

i don't know - you may want to refer to Em/1F...??

Emily is the only one in the same situation as Roberto. They both won, they both broke up with their true loves and Emily found love again. We're still pretty early in the Jef/Emily relationship. We'll probably be able to evaluate that one better in another year. I'm not willing to concede that's going to be a lifelong commitment yet.

The others listed below didn't "win" their show. They came in second or third.
Ashley & JP
Jason & Molly
Trista & Ryan
Ben & Courtney

So by this measure, Arie should be able to find love. Or Sean since they were in the same position as Ashley, Trista and Ben. Losers first, then winners. I don't know Jason, but was he F2 on a season? Didn't his romance happen outside of the show?

Jason Mesnick was F2 in Deanna's season; he originally chose Melissa and publicly dumped her on AFTR 1; he then asked Molly to date IRL during AFTR 2; they subsequently married.

Hope this helps.

kate123 wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

ironcat wrote:

anders wrote:

IrishGal wrote:Roberto is one of my all-time fave contestants so I was thrilled to hear the rumors that he might be next Bach. However, I must confess that as this season played out, I've fallen in love with Arie. I really want to see him find his perfect match. And his sense of humor would be so entertaining (remember "Doug sad, Doug mad"). Sean doesn't do much for me. I think he is a fine, up-standing young man but body builders turn me off. I just don't find their bodies attractive and the few I have known personally seemed very self-absorbed.

See, that part gives me pause. Did he actually fall in love with Emily and was he fully prepared for marriage?? Or was it situational, and all for entertainment. Of all the male leads – very very few are actually married even years after their seasons aired. Firestone, Beurge, Guiney (now divorced), Mesnick and most recently Stork are the only male leads married. I don’t’ think Arie stands any chance of finding anyone other than someone to date for a while and that’s why it doesn’t really matter to me who the lead is – the likelihood there’s a HEA is slim. Whoever does it has their own reasons, I don’t believe finding the love of their life is one of them.

This is a very telling fact that often gets ignored. Is it just coincidental that the vast majority of men who have served as the lead on this show were years away from actually getting married when they did so? Even of the ones you mentioned, Aaron and Travis both waited several years to wed, so it's really only 3 out of 15 who I think could honestly be considered "ready and desirous of a wife" when they filmed their season. Pretty awful stats, and no surprise then that the Bachelor often makes a terrible pick and that the "relationship" falls apart almost immediately.

That said, of the three, I suspect that Sean is probably most interested in getting married, with Roberto second and Arie last. That's not to say that all of them wouldn't be equally happy to end up with a girlfriend from the process.

YES!! Finally, someone speaks the truth. I think that wanting your favorite pick because you want them to find love is the WORST reason. Let's be honest - Roberto, Arie, and Sean are all VERY attractive guys and could easily find a wife in the real world if they wanted. The only reason to even try to do it on TV (when you know that at least a portion of the girls are going to be there just to promote their careers/get into entertainment industry/etc.) is because of the other benefits, like money, travel, etc.

I do think Roberto was ready to get married, just because he moved across the country for his fiancee and didn't have anything to gain from it. I worry about Sean, because I think he's looking for a LT relationship now it's possible that he might be drawn into the entertainment industry. I love Arie, but I would be shocked if he got married anytime soon.

Arie's going to be 31 in a month. He's three years older than Sean. He was in a LT relationship with a single mom that was headed toward marriage. They were living together, he was parenting the kids. Most of the guys his age in the racing world are married with a few kids so he sees that around him all the time. His father claims he's ready to get married. I kind of think maybe he is and just hasn't found the right woman. Is he going to find her on a TV show? Probably not. But while he's looking, he gets to do a lot of fun stuff, gets to travel to interesting places and increases his visibility for racing sponsorships. And he gets a cool wardrobe and gets paid. Who wouldn't want to do that?

I also think Sean is ready to get married. His sister is married with kids and he sees that everyday and wants that for himself. Between him and Arie, I thought Sean was the more skeptical of the two as to the process actually working. I thought that he held back for a long time before actually allowing himself to fall for Emily. But it seemed to work for him and I think it could again.

Roberto is the only one of these three who has actually "won" the show and been engaged as a result. I think he'd be the most doubtful about whether this was going to work for him again. Finding love TWICE on a reality dating show. What are the odds on that?

Honestly, none of us will ever really know what happened in Arie's last relationship with Cassie H. She went to the tabloids and said that he wasn't the best father figure, has some growing up to do, is just in it for the fame, etc. We will never know who's telling the truth, if she was misquoted (although that's hard to believe in this instance since RS basically said she told him the same thing), but I think that there's a least room for uncertainty about his readiness to get married. Again, Arie was BY FAR my favorite contestant this season (and top five overall), but I think unless we are friends/family with the guy, we just can't possibly know his true intentions.

And I agree with you about Sean - I'm just worried fame could change him (as I always am about the leads).

As far as Roberto goes, I don't think it's finding love twice on a reality show that is so inconceivable (Jason, Deanna, Emily, IMO fell in love when they were contestants; Jillian, Jake, Ali, Ashley, Ben - probably not). It's whether he would be so lucky to get engaged twice. And, this is just my personal opinion - I think the main reasons that most of the male leads haven't gotten married to their F1 (or at all) is because they are changed by fame. Simply the fact that Roberto never sold his breakup story about Ali to the tabloids and has only been involved in the media since his breakup because of a charity shows that he's not going to be as easily drawn to fame. But, I could totally be wrong.

I'm against former f1's being leads. It's always a bad idea imo. Jen Schefft was horrible even though she was much loved going in. Emily was just okay and the dates were so boring. The only saving grace for me were some of the guys. Roberto stands a better chance but think he would have a hard time with the concept and the media attention.

I don't think it's worth worrying who's more ready for marriage because it's almost a certainty that it's not going to happen. I guess there's still hope for Ben but as noted the Bachelors aren't all that good at getting married and especially not with their f1. The women are better but not by a lot.

albean99 wrote:I'm against former f1's being leads. It's always a bad idea imo. Jen Schefft was horrible even though she was much loved going in. Emily was just okay and the dates were so boring. The only saving grace for me were some of the guys. Roberto stands a better chance but think he would have a hard time with the concept and the media attention.

I don't think it's worth worrying who's more ready for marriage because it's almost a certainty that it's not going to happen. I guess there's still hope for Ben but as noted the Bachelors aren't all that good at getting married and especially not with their f1. The women are better but not by a lot.

That Ben/Courtney relationship is just so bizarre that it would be the one that worked out in the end. I have no idea what brought them together, but it must have been something pretty amazing to have weathered all the crap that came their way later on.