Bachelorette 17 - Katie Thurston - Aug 2 (HTD) - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

I don't normally comment just love reading people's opinions. In a lot of opinions I have read people are saying Katie should have let go of holding off on the I Love you till the end if Greg was her true F1. I also hear a lot about him still having issues with losing his father. In my opinion Katie has also lost her father she also has learned through sexual assault how to set boundaries and not let go of those boundaries simply to please a man or make a man feel secure. Greg was on the date where she talked about that assault and how she blamed herself and how she even tried to convince herself to persue a relationship with that man. Yes she fkubbed somethings and is far from perfect but why was she expected to be more compationate to his loss of his father and him being vulnerable yet he wasn't expected to be compationate to what he learned about her, her loss of her father and her sexual assault. I did feel he was gaslighting because when she apologized he shot it down and went in on her about something else. When she tried to give him validation he said it wasn't about a rose or him trying to make her say I love you. In my opinion his HTD came first and she felt he was F1 but she was still confused after Blake HTD where she said it felt so easy with Blake. If Greg was truly in love and being vulnerable you don't just quit. He knows the show he has applied to be on it before. He knows how it works. How can you be so in love with her and not once care how she felt in that conversation. How can you be so in love and be more concerned about all you are goo g through and walk away while she was on ground crying. Imo he wanted out. Maybe he saw her kissing Blake and reflected on their conversation during his and felt maybe I'm not F1 and instead of possibly being rejected he started this huge fight becaise he quit way to easy for somebody so deeply in love. Of course this is all my opinion but I think yes they both lost a father and she has con through a sexualnassault and was very open about her mental state after it and learning to be ok with sex again. She set a boundary as far I saying I love you and I don't think she should have to remove her boundaries to please anybody. She apologized for her reaction on HTD there was absolutely nothing she could do in that conversation in hotel room or outside to change his mind. He wanted to leave and every reassurance she gave him he shot it down and would go backwards to something she already admitted to come out right and that she could have handled differed. What could she do in that hotel room conversation after apologizing for HTD flub and admitting she could have handled better to make him change his mind? If she had said I love you which he said that wasn't what he was looking for I am sure he would have found something else. I'm interested what people think she could have done in that hotel room convo because he said he didn't want a rose he wasn't looking for an I love you so what did he want he got the apology so what could she do?

pbmax wrote:

gurlbrit wrote:

pbmax wrote:

gurlbrit wrote:Just watched the Greg "debacle" in his thread.  @Maddy you are right, it was all about me, me, me.  He could not see that it was difficult for her, she told him in no uncertain terms that she wasn't going to tell any of them that she loved them until the end.  If he doesn't have the cojones to stick it out for a television show what's going to happen if something really tough happens in their lives.  Going to be an interesting finale!

You would think now would be a good time to ditch that plan:yes: if he calmed now (all's well) if he didn't then he was just full of crock. Greg is not the first to have a hard time with this process and he won't be the last. Heck Emily was clowning after she had been picked and engaged. These people don't know if they're truly the F1 until the end, although Greg was always her F1. She plainly layed that out last night. She said she didn't know what would happen if Greg wasn't there, that tells me she didn't feel anything for the other guys. She truly fell in love and she's still having a time with it now.

Is there evidence that Desiree talks to her because I read one of her interviews and she said Kaitlyn and Tayshia talked her out of quitting, didn't hear her say nothing about third person helping her. That lingerie photo reeks single to me.

@pbmax, yes it certainly would be a good idea to ditch the plan of not telling any of them that she was in love with them, if that was really how she felt.  Many F1s have said that the lead let them know that they were it and gave them enough confidence to carry on.  Why not this time?  It says to me that maybe Katie was having second thoughts about Greg being her F1.

Not with what came out of her mouth last night, she told it all. It was Greg or no one. She said she didn't know what would happen if Greg wasn't there. So it was Greg from beginning to end and she just played the role with the other guys. Truly her worst fears came true and I really hate that for her.

Wow, "hate" that's a mighty strong word for a TV show. I happen to believe otherwise, Greg really showed how immature he was last night.

twinkle73 wrote:I don't normally comment just love reading people's opinions.  In a lot of opinions I have read people are saying Katie should have let go of holding off on the I Love you till the end if Greg was her true F1. I also hear a lot about him still having issues with losing his father. In my opinion Katie has also lost her father she also has learned through sexual assault how to set boundaries and not let go of those boundaries simply to please a man or make a man feel secure. Greg was on the date where she talked about that assault and how she blamed herself and how she even tried to convince herself to persue a relationship with that man.  Yes she fkubbed somethings and is far from perfect but why was she expected to be more compationate to his loss of his father and him being vulnerable yet he wasn't expected to be compationate to what he learned about her, her loss of her father and her sexual assault.  I did feel he was gaslighting because when she apologized he shot it down and went in on her about something else. When she tried to give him validation he said it wasn't about a rose or him trying to make her say I love you.  In my opinion his HTD came first and she felt he was F1 but she was still confused after Blake HTD where she said it felt so easy with Blake. If Greg was truly in love and being vulnerable you don't just quit. He knows the show he has applied to be on it before. He knows how it works. How can you be so in love with her and not once care how she felt in that conversation. How can you be so in love and be more concerned about all you are goo g through and walk away while she was on ground crying. Imo he wanted out. Maybe he saw her kissing Blake and reflected on their conversation during his and felt maybe I'm not F1 and instead of possibly being rejected he started this huge fight becaise he quit way to easy for somebody so deeply in love.  Of course this is all my opinion but I think yes they both lost a father and she has con through a sexualnassault and was very open about her mental state after it and learning to be ok with sex again. She set a boundary as far I saying I love you and I don't think she should have to remove her boundaries to please anybody. She apologized for her reaction on HTD there was absolutely nothing she could do in that conversation in hotel room or outside to change his mind. He wanted to leave and every reassurance she gave him he shot it down and would go backwards to something she already admitted to come out right and that she could have handled differed. What could she do in that hotel room conversation after apologizing for HTD flub and admitting she could have handled better to make him change his mind?  If she had said  I love you which he said that wasn't what he was looking for I am sure he would have found something else. I'm interested what people think she could have done in that hotel room convo because he said he didn't want a rose he wasn't looking for an I love you so what did he want he got the apology so what could she do?

This!

There used to be a way to determine which went first, if ABC still puts out "media photographs" the photo # will tell you which was first. I too believe he had the first HTD and that he was still boiling about their argument at the end of the HTD three days or so later when it all imploded.

Billysmom wrote:snipped ...
To my eyes they just don't speak the same language. He was saying how her nonreaction had made him feel, and that it caused him to mistrust everything. snipped ...

I kinda get the sense she has to be right all the time. Oddly enough when she is calling ppl out she can be very articulate. Last night not so much. snipped ...

I feel you nailed it between Greg and Katie. Rather than crucify Greg's behavior, just acknowledge they are not on the same page. Better to find out now, before a proposal, than to have an even messier breakup later. I feel for Greg - no one who is that vulnerable should feel shut down. Katie can call it what she wants (re: gaslighting) but considering how tender her goodbyes were with Michael P and Connor, then Andrew and Michael A, her reaction to Greg was very different.

The preview of her mother stating that no woman should have to depend on a man sheds light on Katie's behavior, IMO. When you meet your person, mutual respect and admiration includes a dependency that you welcome. The additive effect on your life is like fresh air! It doesn't mean you cannot be independent.

Hello!
I can't see Greg in the wrong here although i'm not ok with how he reacted and how he handled the breakup but i kinda get his reaction. He was angry and pissed off. He was disappointed after all the effort he made and expressed his feelings to her and IHO he didn't get the response he needed. He made it clear to her he's never made himself this vulnerable in a relationship before especially after his dad's passed away and he was afraid of being rejected/abandoned/ not loved and in his eyes she just did that. I think he didn't want her just to choose him as a winner for the show he wanted more he wanted a validation for their future that she sees him as her partner in "real life" and they can work out as a couple. So that's what made him really disappointed and pissed him off. He felt rejected and his fear come true. he saw her response as katie the bachelorette talking and he wanted more from the "real" katie. He's certainly done with the show and don't give a damn thing about it anymore after his declaration. It was it from him and not getting the answer he needed made him going nuts. And yes it's clear he never watched this show before and don't know how really things works in the bachelor world so he may don't get the signs from katie as many viewers get them.
Also if i was in katie place and my F1 was about to quit i will just say f*ck it all and finished the show and said this is my life i don't want to loose him so maybe she was having doubts about him being her final pick or she was more concerned about her role as the bachelorette than loosing the man she's in love with or he wasn't her F1. And actually that's making Greg right. As simple as that for me if she really loved him she would made it clear to him with actions (like what Colton did he risked everything for Cassie). what's the point of continuing the show if you are losing the one?!
So in greg's eyes why he's continuing to bear this sh!t while it's not worth it. He said he can't be there at the end if he's going to be rejected. he can't handle it.
Katie has every right to continue the show if she thought that's the best for her but if she's really happy with her pick and really in love why she's still bitter & angry about Greg and shading him with her SM. That doesn't made her look good and i feel for her F1. That only proves that actually chose someone by default or she wants herself to be always in the right.

seton wrote:

notarose wrote:

bluwavz wrote:

https://youtu.be/m1nJoMME4Tg

IMO this is a wonderful recap that dissects all the nuance.

It's good to hear the fight dissected line by line.

I disagree with some of what they said like how Greg was fine before (I said I saw red flags with Greg after their first 1on1 and I have never been sadder about being right) but all the ways that they pointed how childish/childlike Greg was, I totally agree with.

I loved this episode of Dear Shandy. One thing that was pointed out was how Greg kept saying "What do you mean?" in response to whatever Katie was saying. They he would pick apart and attack whatever she responded. I agree with Sharleen and Andy that she is well rid of him.

Jina wrote:Hello!
I can't see Greg in the wrong here although i'm not ok with how he reacted and how he handled the breakup but i kinda get his reaction. He was angry and pissed off. He was disappointed after all the effort he made and expressed his feelings to her and IHO he didn't get the response he needed. He made it clear to her he's never made himself this vulnerable in a relationship before especially after his dad's passed away and he was afraid of being rejected/abandoned/ not loved and in his eyes she just did that. I think he didn't want her just to choose him as a winner for the show he wanted more he wanted a validation for their future that she sees him as her partner in "real life" and they can work out as a couple. So that's what made him really disappointed and pissed him off. He felt rejected and his fear come true. he saw her response as katie the bachelorette talking and he wanted more from the "real" katie. He's certainly done with the show and don't give a damn thing about it anymore after his declaration. It was it from him and not getting the answer he needed made him going nuts. And yes it's clear he never watched this show before and don't know how really things works in the bachelor world so he may don't get the signs from katie as many viewers get them.
Also if i was in katie place and my F1 was about to quit i will just say f*ck it all and finished the show and said this is my life i don't want to loose him so maybe she was having doubts about him being her final pick or she was more concerned about her role as the bachelorette than loosing the man she's in love with or he wasn't her F1. And actually that's making Greg right. As simple as that for me if she really loved him she would made it clear to him with actions (like what Colton did he risked everything for Cassie). what's the point of continuing the show if you are losing the one?!
So in greg's eyes why he's continuing to bear this sh!t while it's not worth it. He said he can't be there at the end if he's going to be rejected. he can't handle it.
Katie has every right to continue the show if she thought that's the best for her but if she's really happy with her pick and really in love why she's still bitter & angry about Greg and shading him with her SM. That doesn't made her look good and i feel for her F1. That only proves that actually chose someone by default or she wants herself to be always in the right.

Exactly! Just as Brad did with Emily. He told her he wasn't going to sit here and listen to her tell him how she feel and he not tell her how he feel. If you find that one, ditch that preconceived plan.

gurlbrit wrote:Wow, "hate" that's a mighty strong word for a TV show. I happen to believe otherwise, Greg really showed how immature he was last night.

Yeah Katie fell in love on a TV show but I believe her feelings were real world feelings so yes I hate things didn't work out for her.
I hear these words a lot especially this season, toxic, immature and emotional abuser. Greg expresses his feelings and then he is labeled these things by fans. Every relationship or marriage has argument, spat or disagreement, that's called life. When my grand parents were alive I can remember them arguing about a purse and they were in their 80's. Sometimes we can't see eye to eye, that's all human nature. I didn't take that to be a toxic relationship. We even have different point of views here and sometimes agree, I don't take it to be toxic or immature.

I think what happened between Greg and Katie was a misfortune that things went sour. I can understand both sides. I do blame tptb their intentions aren't good for a couple looking for love. You sure has to have the withstanding power. Ask Brad, Colton, Rachel and others.

On other sites some viewers have said if Greg bailed after this disagreement/miscommunication, he would not be able to handle future conflict. But I think the point he was making was a foundational one, a sine qua non for his ability to continue at all - ie if he didn't believe Katie really meant what he thought when they were talking about moving to NYC then their relationship no longer felt real to him. Where does one go from there, without that basic trust? I am probably one who in his shoes would have her blank looks reappearing in my head mercilessly....
But for all I know maybe he is this phenom actor - and his family as well?

Imagine Katie telling Greg, I love you, (just as some other leads did) and then not choose him as her F1.

I have caught up on three pages, and read this article below, and I still have no clue what Greg wanted from Katie. There were a couple of comments that he made that I found to be very childish and sarcastic. He doesn't care about the rose (that's the whole nature of the show) He doesn't care that she said he's number 1 (really irked me when Katie apologized for saying that).

There have been a lot of contestants before him in the same boat. They all told their families they've found the one, he is no special contestant who deserves to be taken aside half way through the show and be told he's going to be her choice. To me, he had zero respect for the process that she had to go through individually with each contestant, since that's what the show is all about. I never thought he was ready for a relationship to begin with, and when Mike F retweeted someone's tweet that he was on the show only to further his career, I sort of had that gut feeling, it wasn't going to go well for him.

I think of guys like Bryan, Zac, Roberto, Chris and I'm sure others, who were frustrated but they were there for one thing and didn't let anything distract them.

“I told my mom that you were The One. I was telling my whole entire family that. I truly felt that in my heart and wanted to express that to you. I expressed that I do love you. I felt like I was telling that to a stranger. I don’t know why. This whole entire time has felt like Katie to me, and that night, I was thinking that I was expressing my love to my future wife, and you didn’t even feel it,” he said. “You just completely dismissed it in my eyes.”

When Katie pointed out that she told Greg’s family that he was getting a rose this week, he snapped.
“I don’t give a f—k about the rose. I was just telling you that you filled a hole in my heart,” he said. “I’ve never given up on you. I’ve fought so hard for you here … As much as it hurts me, I’ve reached my breaking point with this. I gave you everything. I really hope you find something.”

https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/pictures/bachelorette-katie-thurston-suggests-greg-grippo-is-a-gaslighter/amp/

I think Katie dodged a bullet with Greg I think he wanted an excuse to leave jmo

timfan wrote:I think Katie dodged a bullet with Greg I think he wanted an excuse to leave jmo

That's it in a nutshell!  

I also think Katie may have been subconsciously pulling away from Greg

alwayscooking wrote:

timfan wrote:I think Katie dodged a bullet with Greg I think he wanted an excuse to leave jmo

That's it in a nutshell!  

I also think Katie may have been subconsciously pulling away from Greg

Totally agree on both points. And also why I don’t think Blake is sweating this at all if they’re together. As crazy as Katie acted about Greg, they showed us plenty of scenes to see how much work it is to keep this guy happy and reassured.  TV show or ‘process’, either way, she gave him a lot of reassurance along the way.

Blake had about half that reassurance and didn’t crumble (yet). Which one seems like a better option to give it a whirl in real life? I just don’t see her in love enough with Greg, by a long shot, to sign up for that much effort to be in a relationship. He isn’t ready and it’s not his fault at all. I am sure he’ll be ready in due time and find the right one. JMOs

Oh, and @bluwavz your Avi is hall of fame worthy LOL. morticia Adams should be the brand icon  for this show