Bachelorette 17 - Katie Thurston - Aug 2 (HTD) - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

I wouldn't call it gaslighting, but to me it was an over-the-top response when Katie fumbled her reply to him. He could have responded calmly, stating his needs. Instead, he chose to bail. What else would he bail on? Would he walk away from (say) a pregnant wife when the going gets tough?

Yes, Katie could have responded to him a whole lot better. But I'm not convinced that anything short of an "I love you" or "You are definitely the one for me," would have been sufficient for him, and maybe not even that.

I really think that Greg is still too raw from his father's passing, and I totally get that. IMO he saw his dad's death as (a kind of) abandonment, and he chose to view Katie's response in the same light. I know after my own father's death, I put myself in a position where  I would be rejected by someone that I loved. I think I subconsciously chose that person on purpose, knowing on a deep level that he would reject me. You don't feel that you are worthy of being loved, and you put yourself in a position of being abandoned all over again. You play out what you think you deserve, hoping for a better outcome. I think that's where Greg is at. Because of that, I think he might benefit from long-term therapy. I don't think he is anywhere near ready for a serious relationship, much less being the Bachelor. Hopefully TPTB agree.

notarose wrote:

bluwavz wrote:

https://youtu.be/m1nJoMME4Tg

IMO this is a wonderful recap that dissects all the nuance.

It's good to hear the fight dissected line by line.

I disagree with some of what they said like how Greg was fine before (I said I saw red flags with Greg after their first 1on1 and I have never been sadder about being right) but all the ways that they pointed how childish/childlike Greg was, I totally agree with.

IA @Amethyst on every point.  I don't think Greg has the maturity needed to be in a serious relationship and that is fine.   I couldn't help but to go back to Tayshia' season in my mind and remembered how Zac was handling the situation.  He had said it himself that it was not about what Zac wanted but about Tayshia, I remembered that when he said those words that it clearly meant that he was all in no matter what and he took every second he had to show Tayshia how strongly he felt for her.   This is not what I saw with Greg last night.

That takes a level of self-confidence not everyone has attained. Zac also is likely doing the 12 steps and so has had to process a lot already re boundaries and letting go et Al jmo.

@Billysmom I know :-) My son is 25 and I don't think  he would last a minute on that show!  I feel for Greg but it is what it is.  I think other leads used the kissing technique as a way to express how they feel when they could not say their true feeling. I agree that Katie did not give him even that! That show is a hard process ! Maybe Katie is single after all!

pbmax wrote:

gurlbrit wrote:Just watched the Greg "debacle" in his thread.  @Maddy you are right, it was all about me, me, me.  He could not see that it was difficult for her, she told him in no uncertain terms that she wasn't going to tell any of them that she loved them until the end.  If he doesn't have the cojones to stick it out for a television show what's going to happen if something really tough happens in their lives.  Going to be an interesting finale!

You would think now would be a good time to ditch that plan:yes: if he calmed now (all's well) if he didn't then he was just full of crock. Greg is not the first to have a hard time with this process and he won't be the last. Heck Emily was clowning after she had been picked and engaged. These people don't know if they're truly the F1 until the end, although Greg was always her F1. She plainly layed that out last night. She said she didn't know what would happen if Greg wasn't there, that tells me she didn't feel anything for the other guys. She truly fell in love and she's still having a time with it now.

Is there evidence that Desiree talks to her because I read one of her interviews and she said Kaitlyn and Tayshia talked her out of quitting, didn't hear her say nothing about third person helping her. That lingerie photo reeks single to me.

@pbmax, yes it certainly would be a good idea to ditch the plan of not telling any of them that she was in love with them, if that was really how she felt. Many F1s have said that the lead let them know that they were it and gave them enough confidence to carry on. Why not this time? It says to me that maybe Katie was having second thoughts about Greg being her F1.

Billysmom wrote:Not buying it.

To my eyes they just don't speak the same language. He was saying how her nonreaction had made him feel, and that it caused him to mistrust everything. Even as an observer I can see how that might be his reality. He wasn't doing something wrong and then telling her it was her fault.

I don't thi k she really understood what he was saying....hence his seeming frustration and impatience. And it was past the point of retrieval, because anything she tried to say would seem like he dragged it out of her.

I kinda get the sense she has to be right all the time. Oddly enough when she is calling ppl out she can be very articulate. Last night not so much. And her face was a total blank. Even what she was saying to Kaitlyn in the bathroom was abt her process not about Greg. Des was more forthcoming abt Brooks.  Jmo

Thank you for saying this!!!   If Katie is supposedly so happily engaged right now, then I don't understand WHY she still feels the NEED to keep posting things that appear to throw shade at Greg?  I am getting the mean girl vibe from her.  And, if she truly felt that Greg was her #1 going into the fantasy suites, then when he poured his heart out to her, she could have at least said something instead of just staring at him.   I found that very odd.  You could hear crickets in the background.  She didn't even kiss him.

So, I am confused as to why things got so awkward with her after Gregg gave her validation that he was in love and ready to propose to her at the end?   Something was very off with her.  And I too have noticed how she always turns her head and looks down when talking to the guys, and she did that with Gregg's mother too.

Someone over on Reddit made a point about Katie's response that made sense to me. After Greg finished pouring his heart out, Katie was just sitting there, stroking his hand, and perhaps absorbing what he said and collecting her thoughts. Greg saw her looking at him, and said, "What?" (as in, why are you staring at me?) So when Katie responded that she loved to look at him, it was a direct response to the question that *he had just asked her.* IMO her response, although still fumbling, was at least more understandable. It wasn't something random that came out of nowhere.

@Billysmom I agree. Zac has had the benefit of counseling and has a structure to rely on when confronting "scary" stuff. He also has a maturity that I hope/think Greg will get to. I found the whole segment with Greg and Katie very sad. They both want love so much, but are also so guarded. I'm hoping time will bring them both a new perspective and some peace on the whole experience. It goes without saying that a good therapist could help this along.

gurlbrit wrote:

pbmax wrote:

gurlbrit wrote:Just watched the Greg "debacle" in his thread.  @Maddy you are right, it was all about me, me, me.  He could not see that it was difficult for her, she told him in no uncertain terms that she wasn't going to tell any of them that she loved them until the end.  If he doesn't have the cojones to stick it out for a television show what's going to happen if something really tough happens in their lives.  Going to be an interesting finale!

You would think now would be a good time to ditch that plan:yes: if he calmed now (all's well) if he didn't then he was just full of crock. Greg is not the first to have a hard time with this process and he won't be the last. Heck Emily was clowning after she had been picked and engaged. These people don't know if they're truly the F1 until the end, although Greg was always her F1. She plainly layed that out last night. She said she didn't know what would happen if Greg wasn't there, that tells me she didn't feel anything for the other guys. She truly fell in love and she's still having a time with it now.

Is there evidence that Desiree talks to her because I read one of her interviews and she said Kaitlyn and Tayshia talked her out of quitting, didn't hear her say nothing about third person helping her. That lingerie photo reeks single to me.

@pbmax, yes it certainly would be a good idea to ditch the plan of not telling any of them that she was in love with them, if that was really how she felt.  Many F1s have said that the lead let them know that they were it and gave them enough confidence to carry on.  Why not this time?  It says to me that maybe Katie was having second thoughts about Greg being her F1.

Not with what came out of her mouth last night, she told it all. It was Greg or no one. She said she didn't know what would happen if Greg wasn't there. So it was Greg from beginning to end and she just played the role with the other guys. Truly her worst fears came true and I really hate that for her.

@Amethyst
Sorry for the double post. I had not thought about Katie's reaction in this way, but I think you and the reddit poster are right. I remember her saying it in a fond/loving way, not a "you're hot" kind of way. I think she was struggling to respond. A kiss might have been a happy compromise...to show her feeling but keep her self-promise about not yet saying I love you.

Amethyst wrote:Someone over on Reddit made a point about Katie's response that made sense to me. After Greg finished pouring his heart out, Katie was just sitting there, stroking his hand, and perhaps absorbing what he said and collecting her thoughts. Greg saw her looking at him, and said, "What?" (as in, why are you staring at me?) So when Katie responded that she loved to look at him, it was a direct response to the question that *he had just asked her.* IMO her response, although still fumbling, was at least more understandable. It wasn't something random that came out of nowhere.

Exactly.
Also, her first response was actually to wipe his tears and whisper “I’m glad”, which is what you normally expect from the lead at this stage. Of course, he was craving a full ILY, so he started fishing for more by saying “I haven’t been this vulnerable before”, “I don’t know what else to tell you”, and then stopped.
The awkward silence that followed is what caused that exchange.
All JMO