Bachelorette 15 - Luke Parker - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

notarose wrote:Instant replay vid:
Luke S definitely approached Luke P. at a fast pace. S’s fist closest to the camera is clenched TRUE
Don’t know if S. is cussing because there is no audio UNVERIFIED
Luke S’s hands are not raised high enough to swing at Luke P’s face. Even when P bends over, S’s hands are not by P’s face FALSE

It would be great if ABC also posted a replay of the alleged kick when down incident.

Thanks for your comments. Yes, it would be great to see that part of the incident.
An important  fact which affects this incident is that they were in the heat of playing RUGBY, a violent, contact sport. It is obvious from the video that Luke S was running FAST towards Luke P and in those split seconds, a tackle or body slam in self defence would be totally natural and understandable. Raging Adrenaline responses because of the rough  type of sport is normal.
Did Hannah not lead them all on prior to the game with the chant, “Blood! Sweat! Tears!!”?
So ya, because we have the luxury of reviewing it, S fists were not raised but in that SPLIT SECOND , could have appeared to Luke P as such. When Luke P tried to apologize in a sportsmanlike manner when the adrenaline had subsided, Luke S gave the cold shoulder.
Luke P was obviously playing full fledged RUBGY. His arena of experience.
Luke S was participating. Not his forte or comfort zone and he got beat.
Not too much different than the guys who got floored in the Roller derby.
It’s the nature of the beast in those sports.

My point is that with all the labels of “Psychopath, animal’, etc being thrown around in regards to this, the bias was being created. IMO, not fairly so.

RizBiz Today at 4:07 pm

On the Bachelorette’s official Instagram, they have posted a clip proving that Luke P was correct about his perspective of the rugby incident with Luke S. I do not know how to post the link.
I hope this is OK.
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByldY9GjVRT/

Sadly, I think Luke P is getting a terrible, negatively manufactured edit. The producers have stooped to an all time low with this season in promoting his character assassination.   I do not believe his real character is at all what they are portraying on the show and much of it  appears to have been hyped up, and fabricated both during the time of filming and afterwards.
This is one of the most blatant portrayals of bullying I have seen broadcast by this franchise.  
The front runner was targeted  and then harrassed by those who were jealous. The vitriolic jealousy is especially pronounced by those who obviously do not have Hannah’s true affections and are only the MOT guys.


It looks to me that they tried to avoid confrontation with him as they saw how fake and unhinged he became when challenged. I do not see any harassment from their part on the show. They were upset about his behavior probably before the pageants date as they had to live daily with this guy and he showed his true colors which resulted in their lack of respect. Why is it that all the OTHER guys seems to get along and respect each other...? It is very obvious that it was grinding their nerves to be with him especially as he started showing more physical / violent reactions on the rugby field.
If you care to be impartial, listen to Luke S. Interview on GMA where he gives the context to what happened and why everyone present was horrified by Luke P ‘s conduct.
From then the guys agreed to have a minimum of interaction with this ‘ticking time bomb’. And they were hoping and expressing that he would be hopefully gone soon.


Luke.
First Impression Rose.  Creates Jealousy. Target
Crowned King. Creates Jealousy. Target
Great Physique. Creates Jealousy. Target

Sorry, I do not see great physique there, fake steroids body that repulses me.

Expresses his heart and makes himself vulnerable by declaring “I think I am falling in love” ....too soon. Jealousy. Ridiculed.
Yet, Peter’s father fell for his mother at “first sight”. No problems.
was REAL.  
But Luke’s isn’t?

There is a BIG difference between ‘ knowing that you are falling in love ‘ at first sight...and declaring it publicly like Luke did.
We have zero idea of how Peters parents dynamic evolved and it’s jumping to too many conclusions to say that it’s even comparable. You can ‘ know ‘ you have found the ‘ one’ and not necessarily express those sentiments right away... in retrospect you hear couple say...: oh, I knew, when I saw him or her that I had found my life partner.’ But it’s entirely different from Luke’s skewed perspective. He admitted he fell in love by watching her on Colton’ season, ( where she admitted to be struggling to be herself anyway. ) A TV persona is NOT the real person until you meet in flesh and get to experience the energy between that person. He told her she had some catching up to do which shows how immature and fixated he was. Sure you can be intrigued or even attracted by someone you see on tv but to set that person up as your forever mate is delusional UNTIL you check it out in real life. Luke was so caught up in his own image and story of how Hannah was and how she should love him as much as he did, that he reacted and questioned everything that challenged his idea of reality.


I wonder why people blame him when, in the last episode, Luke is reluctant to open up to Hannah and share his feelings.
I can imagine his thought process at the time.
“ More Cameras. My feelings are going to be broadcast  on National Television. Look how expressing my feelings at the “pageant” got me into a mess with the guys.”

Excuse me but Luke P. Has NOT ONCE refrained from showing how he felt he is not that deep to calculate what to say, he has clearly impulse control problems. He is always proud to declare his love and yet can also switch around to say I’m not sure if she feels the same way and I’m not sure how I feel about her when he feels rejected.
All Hannah was doing is trying desperately to have an adult conversation about what is happening and all she got is a wall of pretenses.

As well, he obviously was expecting an “adventurous, fun date” as he had heard some of the other guys had. Lobster fishing. Quad adventure. Basketball with Celtics. etc.


Well, his date card said ‘ let’s see if we can work it out or not ‘ ...how could anyone interpret that to be a ‘ fun date’ ?

But no, he gets to sit on a mountain, have a picnic and get grilled about his feelings. With producers pushing the scenario in the background.

Anyone else would have taken advantage of the beautiful setting and explore together, but there was no fun to do such with the lack of communication between them.


Deer in the headlights?
I for in feel sorry for him. He has not shown or given any reason for all the hatred direct at him.

Again, I disagree that he gave no reason, at the same time he should not get the level of hate he gets but there are consequences to his actions and he should be prepared for them as an adult. He probably never had to contemplate and reassess his behaviors outside his limited views and circle of toxic friends and family.


He must have a strong personality and support base back home to be able to handle all the fallout of this extreme nastiness directed towards him.
I for one, do not think that I could cope as well as he appears to be.
I do not know him and have no vested interest in him.
But he is a person.
Apparently a decent person, as attested to by those who know him. Debatable according to others and we’ll see if they come forth.
Hopefully, he will be able to stand above this all, learn some valuable life lessons and move on.


We shall see. All these are my own personal opinions and it’s good to be back!

RizBiz wrote:

notarose wrote:Instant replay vid:
Luke S definitely approached Luke P. at a fast pace. S’s fist closest to the camera is clenched TRUE
Don’t know if S. is cussing because there is no audio UNVERIFIED
Luke S’s hands are not raised high enough to swing at Luke P’s face. Even when P bends over, S’s hands are not by P’s face FALSE

It would be great if ABC also posted a replay of the alleged kick when down incident.

Thanks for your comments. Yes, it would be great to see that part of the incident.
An important  fact which affects this incident is that they were in the heat of playing RUGBY, a violent, contact sport. It is obvious from the video that Luke S was running FAST towards Luke P and in those split seconds, a tackle or body slam in self defence would be totally natural and understandable. Raging Adrenaline responses because of the rough  type of sport is normal.
Did Hannah not lead them all on prior to the game with the chant, “Blood! Sweat! Tears!!”?
So ya, because we have the luxury of reviewing it, S fists were not raised but in that SPLIT SECOND , could have appeared to Luke P as such. When Luke P tried to apologize in a sportsmanlike manner when the adrenaline had subsided, Luke S gave the cold shoulder.
Luke P was obviously playing full fledged RUBGY. His arena of experience.
Luke S was participating. Not his forte or comfort zone and he got beat.
Not too much different than the guys who got floored in the Roller derby.
It’s the nature of the beast in those sports.

My point is that with all the labels of “Psychopath, animal’, etc being thrown around in regards to this, the bias was being created. IMO, not fairly so.

Again many professional players have commented that what Luke P did was NOT WITHIN THE RULES OF RUGBY. they were off the side where no game was going on. Luke was coming at him , yes, angry, yes, because he had savagely thrown him very close to the spectators and Luke S was coming to tell him he did not appreciate that. Check the interview...the other men all saw it too..

@Astrobach Great post. My feelings exactly.

welcome back @Astrobach well said. I also hope Luke takes time to reflect, accept responsibility and grow as an adult after this experience. People make mistakes but it’s how they learn from them that shows true character.

Thanks @Loulou and @Dutchy23
I’m preparing a little Astro profile for each of the F4 ... coming soon!

I have taken the time to watch as many interviews, read as many blogs, etc. as possible, within reason, after that Rugby date, which is also why I am posting  my opinions so long after it aired. I wanted to have a well rounded idea as to how people were perceiving this season.
I realize that I am in the minority as far as my personal perceptions go concerning this, but wanted to post regardless. Please don’t gang up on me.
There  were many different angles, discussions, contestants, etc. which the editors could have chosen to highlight or focus on but for their own reasons, they are choosing to make this character, his flaws and his challenges, their main storyline for the season. “The Luke P Show” is almost overshadowing the “Hannah the Beast” show.

Have you ever seen the classic school yard gang of bullies? Picking on one person? The same victim? And as  they all pick on the same victim, they feel validated in their unity? We’re justified.
Almost a Lord of the Flies revisited in this season.

Obviously, lots has been left on the cutting room floor regarding the other men so whatever statement they want to make with this edit, is definitely not so much about the individual contestants, or Luke P, Hannah or Tyler.
This season is IMO more of a cultural experiment, a cultural statement, as Chris Harrison has alluded to. Addressing and creating a statement to communicate a message to our society in general.
Something for example, such as -
Stereotypical Macho Man.
Empowered Independant  Woman.
In the Arena of Religion.
The Contest.
The Clash.
The Crash.
The Climax.
Culminating with a little bit of hopefully “Happily Ever After”. Cue Tyler.

Not to forget though that real People, with real lives, are the tools USED here to accomplish their storyboard, to reach the goal of this specific social narrative.

We will see. Time will tell.
I agree that hopefully Luke, as well as ALL the other participants, will have learned valuable life lessons through this.
Thanks for the comments.
Love this group.
Zipping out of here now since I rarely come out of hibernation to post.

@RizBiz Thank you. I disagree with much of what Luke has done, but I don't see him as much of a villain as others do. He clearly has many flaws and perhaps he will prove to be much of what people are speculating, but perhaps he will be redeemed.

Like you I see a lot of guys ganging up on one. It is a unique situation they are all in so I give all of them some slack, but it reminds me back in my psych class days of an experiment about group pressure and dynamics. Very similar to this situation. I wish I could remember what the name of it was. I will try to see if I can find it. It is very eye opening.

Luke P's edit, SO FAR, reminds me of Olivia Caridi from Ben's season. A little crazy was made into a really big villan edit. Olivia is far more balanced post-show than she ever appeared to be while filming. She said one reason the girls disliked her is she read a lot - she's more introverted and that was how she dealt with the stress. Now, if he uses Hannah's loss of her virginity as a judgement on her character or strength of religious beliefs, that is not right. Everyone gets to choose and has the right to learn from their choices.

I don't see it that way. This is a lot different from someone who just goes out of their way to get time with the lead like Olivia did with Ben H. Luke seems to be tone deaf with what he says around the guys which I'm sure doesn't help plus the whole incident with Luke S which I feel was OTT by Luke P. This time it feels like the guys have good reason to dislike him. We've also seen what he's like with Hannah when he should be on best behavior with her. I'm not saying that Luke is a villain but can see why he gets on people's nerves. If it's really Luke that says that to Hannah, then he goes down even more in my opinion.

RizBiz wrote:On the Bachelorette’s official Instagram, they have posted a clip proving that Luke P was correct about his perspective of the rugby incident with Luke S. I do not know how to post the link.
I hope this is OK.
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByldY9GjVRT/

Sadly, I think Luke P is getting a terrible, negatively manufactured edit. The producers have stooped to an all time low with this season in promoting his character assassination.   I do not believe his real character is at all what they are portraying on the show and much of it  appears to have been hyped up, and fabricated both during the time of filming and afterwards.
This is one of the most blatant portrayals of bullying I have seen  broadcast by this franchise.  
The front runner was targeted  and then harrassed by those who were jealous. The vitriolic jealousy is especially pronounced  by those who obviously do not have Hannah’s true affections and are only the MOT guys.
Luke.
First Impression Rose.  Creates Jealousy. Target
Crowned King. Creates Jealousy. Target
Great Physique. Creates Jealousy. Target

Expresses his heart and makes himself vulnerable by declaring “I think I am falling in love” ....too soon. Jealousy. Ridiculed.
Yet, Peter’s father fell for his mother at “first sight”. No problems.
That was REAL.  
But Luke’s isn’t?

I wonder why people blame him when, in the last episode, Luke is reluctant to open up to Hannah and share his feelings.
I can imagine his thought process at the time.
“ More Cameras. My feelings are going to be broadcast  on National Television. Look how expressing my feelings at the “pageant” got me into a mess with the guys.”

As well, he obviously was expecting an “adventurous, fun date” as he had heard some of the other guys had. Lobster fishing. Quad adventure. Basketball with Celtics. etc.

But no, he gets to sit on a mountain, have a picnic and get grilled about his feelings. With producers pushing the scenario in the background.

Deer in the headlights?
I for one, feel sorry for him. He has not shown or given any reason for all the hatred directed towards him.
He must have a strong personality and support base back home to be able to handle all the fallout of this extreme nastiness directed towards him.
I for one, do not think that I could cope as well as he appears to be.
I do not know him and have no vested interest in him.
But he is a person.
Apparently a decent person, as attested to by those who know him.
Hopefully, he will be able to stand above this all, learn some valuable life lessons and move on.

I can't like this post enough. There is an article in his thread explaining how he hoped the ette was Hannah after watching her on Colton's season. He had a head start imo, no different than Andi knowing Josh ahead of time, or Jordan being announced as a contestant before any others which gave JoJo a head start or Shawn drawing hearts around K's face while she was on Ben's season. So yeah I can see how he would feel like he is "falling in love" so soon.

I hope he has a good support system in place to be able to deal with this because as we have seen in the past, it's been difficult for others. I don't like that the other guys are taking part in some of this behaviour with their SM activity IMHO.

albean99 wrote:I don't see it that way. This is a lot different from someone who just goes out of their way to get time with the lead like Olivia did with Ben H. Luke seems to be tone deaf with what he says around the guys which I'm sure doesn't help plus the whole incident with Luke S which I feel was OTT by Luke P. This time it feels like the guys have good reason to dislike him. We've also seen what he's like with Hannah when he should be on best behavior with her. I'm not saying that Luke is a villain but can see why he gets on people's nerves. If it's really Luke that says that to Hannah, then he goes down even more in my opinion.

Oh, I get why he gets on peoples nerves. He would get on mine no doubt, but that still doesn't make him a villain in my eyes. Even if he is the one that accosts Hannah about her sex life, while I consider it none of his business, ignorant, rude, it still doesn't make him a villain to me. Makes me like him even less...and there isn't much more room to go down as is.

Here is the psych experiment I was talking about earlier...the Salomon Asch Conformity Study. There were several experiments with different group sizes to see if that made any difference and then when they had an "ally". Scary stuff.

https://www.age-of-the-sage.org/psychology/social/asch_conformity.html