Bachelorette 15 - Luke Parker - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

@lleyki @HEA

I hesitate to label anyone a villain from this show. I have seen it too many times where people were cast in the villain role and they just weren't. It is just too easy for tptb to cast vulnerable, immature people and manipulate them and others around them to get them to crash and burn. Editing on top of that just makes it worse. That said, it doesn't mean that I give them a free pass  because of that. The post show behaviour is what I look for. How do they react after the show? Do learn anything from watching themselves or do they blame editing? Do they actually grow and change as a result or do they just pay lip service?

I am not a fan of Luke. I don't get Hannah's attraction and I personally find him way too intense, however at this time I can't help but feel sorry for the guy. He has been cast the villain on the show, the guys are all dumping on him non stop, Hannah is turning on him, the audience hates him and he has the sh*t show that will be the MTA where everyone will be ganging up on him to look forward too. I just don't like to see people

Sprite wrote:@lleyki @HEA

I hesitate to label anyone a villain from this show. I have seen it too many times where people were cast in the villain role and they just weren't. It is just too easy for tptb to cast vulnerable, immature people and manipulate them and others around them to get them to crash and burn. Editing on top of that just makes it worse. That said, it doesn't mean that I give them a free pass  because of that. The post show behaviour is what I look for. How do they react after the show? Do learn anything from watching themselves or do they blame editing? Do they actually grow and change as a result or do they just pay lip service?

I am not a fan of Luke. I don't get Hannah's attraction and I personally find him way too intense, however at this time I can't help but feel sorry for the guy. He has been cast the villain on the show, the guys are all dumping on him non stop, Hannah is turning on him, the audience hates him and he has the sh*t show that will be the MTA where everyone will be ganging up on him to look forward too. I just don't like to see

It’s possible Luke will not be targeted by any or most of the guys on MTA.
Unlike WTA where some are suspected to make noise as a BIP audition, MTA is after BIP starts filming so it’s not as much of a factor.
Also, Luke has so many issues IMO. The guys who lived through this with him might be satisfied that enough has been shown so let him figure out his own life. A kind of “wash my hands” of him approach.  Through Hannah’s interviews they are hearing Luke reminded her of her old boyfriend and they are seeing that she did ask him tough questions as well as set boundaries so now they know the answers to some of the confusion they may have had.
The old saying “don’t kick a man when he’s down” might come into effect.
Guess we’ll see.

notarose wrote:

Sprite wrote:@lleyki @HEA

I hesitate to label anyone a villain from this show. I have seen it too many times where people were cast in the villain role and they just weren't. It is just too easy for tptb to cast vulnerable, immature people and manipulate them and others around them to get them to crash and burn. Editing on top of that just makes it worse. That said, it doesn't mean that I give them a free pass  because of that. The post show behaviour is what I look for. How do they react after the show? Do learn anything from watching themselves or do they blame editing? Do they actually grow and change as a result or do they just pay lip service?

I am not a fan of Luke. I don't get Hannah's attraction and I personally find him way too intense, however at this time I can't help but feel sorry for the guy. He has been cast the villain on the show, the guys are all dumping on him non stop, Hannah is turning on him, the audience hates him and he has the sh*t show that will be the MTA where everyone will be ganging up on him to look forward too. I just don't like to see

It’s possible Luke will not be targeted by any or most of the guys on MTA.
Unlike WTA where some are suspected to make noise as a BIP audition, MTA is after BIP starts filming so it’s not as much of a factor.
Also, Luke has so many issues IMO. The guys who lived through this with him might be satisfied that enough has been shown so let him figure out his own life. A kind of “wash my hands” of him approach.  Through Hannah’s interviews they are hearing Luke reminded her of her old boyfriend and they are seeing that she did ask him tough questions as well as set boundaries so now they know the answers to some of the confusion they may have had.
The old saying “don’t kick a man when he’s down” might come into effect.
Guess we’ll see.

I admire your optimism. I on the other hand am a grumpy cynic and fully expect that is exactly what tptb will do. They will kick him and then kick him some more and then some more again....and so will the guys...starting with Luke S. I fully expect to see them yelling at him to the point I can't understand what anyone is saying because they will all be yelling on top of one another.

Sprite wrote:

notarose wrote:

Sprite wrote:@lleyki @HEA

I hesitate to label anyone a villain from this show. I have seen it too many times where people were cast in the villain role and they just weren't. It is just too easy for tptb to cast vulnerable, immature people and manipulate them and others around them to get them to crash and burn. Editing on top of that just makes it worse. That said, it doesn't mean that I give them a free pass  because of that. The post show behaviour is what I look for. How do they react after the show? Do learn anything from watching themselves or do they blame editing? Do they actually grow and change as a result or do they just pay lip service?

I am not a fan of Luke. I don't get Hannah's attraction and I personally find him way too intense, however at this time I can't help but feel sorry for the guy. He has been cast the villain on the show, the guys are all dumping on him non stop, Hannah is turning on him, the audience hates him and he has the sh*t show that will be the MTA where everyone will be ganging up on him to look forward too. I just don't like to see

It’s possible Luke will not be targeted by any or most of the guys on MTA.
Unlike WTA where some are suspected to make noise as a BIP audition, MTA is after BIP starts filming so it’s not as much of a factor.
Also, Luke has so many issues IMO. The guys who lived through this with him might be satisfied that enough has been shown so let him figure out his own life. A kind of “wash my hands” of him approach.  Through Hannah’s interviews they are hearing Luke reminded her of her old boyfriend and they are seeing that she did ask him tough questions as well as set boundaries so now they know the answers to some of the confusion they may have had.
The old saying “don’t kick a man when he’s down” might come into effect.
Guess we’ll see.

I admire your optimism. I on the other hand am a grumpy cynic and fully expect that is exactly what tptb will do. They will kick him and then kick him some more and then some more again....and so will the guys...starting with Luke S. I fully expect to see them yelling at him to the point I can't understand what anyone is saying because they will all be yelling on top of one another.

a Luke vs Luke part 2 could definitely happen. Hannah reminded me of a principal having to listen to 2 kindergarteners in that scene.

How MTA goes all depends on how the Luke/Hannah break up and how he responds to what we are seeing on the show. The guys will be seeing the breakup for the first time.... and all the guys seem to be big Hannah supporters so I would expect if that situation is anything like what the previews make the interaction seem to be the guys will jump down his throat. And if he does shame Hannah in any way I would jump down his throat as well. IMO.

Y'all just give passes to people for being quick to anger? When I think of all the dumb things I've disliked various cast members for over the years, this isn't in that category. And Luke doesn't just get angry easily, that anger leads him to get physical with people. Sure, maybe the scenes we see of him being manipulative is just the edit, and maybe he really thought Luke S was gonna hit him and that's why he completely overreacted but then explain the clip of him and Garrett where Luke's just standing over him yelling in his face, TPTB didn't just magically edit him into Garrett's personal space. If I ignore the manipulation, lying, and love bombing he does with Hannah, there's still concerning aspects of his personality like the fact that he's not just quick to anger, but that his first instinct in a conflict is to physically intimidate people. All jmo.

@ReneeM I completely agree.

I’m also completely turned off by the cross front and center on his shirt at all times. It’s very off putting. He’s just not for me.

notarose wrote:

HEA wrote:@lleyki it is called maturity and self assurance (Jed). Never said Luke is perfect or mature. I think he is not. But for me? no villain. just a bad temper guy with self issues.Who knows how anyone would react in his shoes? I do not know him so I will not judge him and will give him the benefice of the doubt like every villain edited by this franchise. Many were edited bad bad villains. some were, some not so much as awful as they were edited. JMO

 bad tempered.
For me, he’s got 2 settings: brooding or making out.

agree.
immaturity. For me Luke could not handle the pressure and competition. He reacted like a kid in kindergarten when another kid takes a toy from another kid. He knew what would happened but he was so sure of himself to win the girl and marry her at the end that everything that did not go his way became a tantrum. He just need to grow up a little bit and learn. I think this was a good life lesson for him and if his IG post is genuine, he is realizing it watching himself on TV. The level of maturity with Jed and Tyler is day and night. I do not dislike Luke. I wish him well. I think he was totally devastated when she rejected him. But he looks fine today so all is good. JMO

ReneeM wrote:Y'all just give passes to people for being quick to anger? When I think of all the dumb things I've disliked various cast members for over the years, this isn't in that category. And Luke doesn't just get angry easily, that anger leads him to get physical with people. Sure, maybe the scenes we see of him being manipulative is just the edit, and maybe he really thought Luke S was gonna hit him and that's why he completely overreacted but then explain the clip of him and Garrett where Luke's just standing over him yelling in his face, TPTB didn't just magically edit him into Garrett's personal space. If I ignore the manipulation, lying, and love bombing he does with Hannah, there's still concerning aspects of his personality like the fact that he's not just quick to anger, but that his first instinct in a conflict is to physically intimidate people. All jmo.

Completely agree. Few things. Posters don't have to tag me to respond to my comments. You can just quote it. Because coming on board and seeing 10 notifications is a little annoying to be honest. Two and this is really important because one of my pet peeves is having my comments and words taken out of context. I never called Luke a villain, I've never said I consider him a villain. Because frankly I've never considered anyone on this franchise a villain. This isn't some Marvel Universe movie. There are no villains and superheroes and good guys.

There are people who are flawed and some of those flaws are more glaring than those of others and they get called out for it. My post was not to insist that Luke was some big bad evil villain. It was to disagree and challenge the notion of "editing, producers' manipulation, the other guys may have just been jealous because Hannah liked him so much". My opinion is that while all of these things may very well on some level be true, it's not always the complete picture. And IMO, from what I have seen thus far, I do think it's too easy and making excuses for this behavior to say, "well he just really liked Hannah, and we know how the producers manipulate the contestants and the guys just didn't like how much Hannah liked him and, and, and..."

Or Luke is someone with some major control and narcissistic tendencies who being in this environment, those negative aspects of his personality were exacerbated and exposed on full display. And so rather than a million excuses for him, hopefully he takes an honest and long look at himself and does better in the future. IMO.

for me I will resume Luke as intense


link definition

On the Bachelorette’s official Instagram, they have posted a clip proving that Luke P was correct about his perspective of the rugby incident with Luke S. I do not know how to post the link.
I hope this is OK.
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByldY9GjVRT/

Sadly, I think Luke P is getting a terrible, negatively manufactured edit. The producers have stooped to an all time low with this season in promoting his character assassination.   I do not believe his real character is at all what they are portraying on the show and much of it  appears to have been hyped up, and fabricated both during the time of filming and afterwards.
This is one of the most blatant portrayals of bullying I have seen broadcast by this franchise.  
The front runner was targeted  and then harrassed by those who were jealous. The vitriolic jealousy is especially pronounced by those who obviously do not have Hannah’s true affections and are only the MOT guys.
Luke.
First Impression Rose.  Creates Jealousy. Target
Crowned King. Creates Jealousy. Target
Great Physique. Creates Jealousy. Target

Expresses his heart and makes himself vulnerable by declaring “I think I am falling in love” ....too soon. Jealousy. Ridiculed.
Yet, Peter’s father fell for his mother at “first sight”. No problems.
That was REAL.  
But Luke’s isn’t?

I wonder why people blame him when, in the last episode, Luke is reluctant to open up to Hannah and share his feelings.
I can imagine his thought process at the time.
“ More Cameras. My feelings are going to be broadcast  on National Television. Look how expressing my feelings at the “pageant” got me into a mess with the guys.”

As well, he obviously was expecting an “adventurous, fun date” as he had heard some of the other guys had. Lobster fishing. Quad adventure. Basketball with Celtics. etc.

But no, he gets to sit on a mountain, have a picnic and get grilled about his feelings. With producers pushing the scenario in the background.

Deer in the headlights?
I for one, feel sorry for him. He has not shown or given any reason for all the hatred directed towards him.
He must have a strong personality and support base back home to be able to handle all the fallout of this extreme nastiness directed towards him.
I for one, do not think that I could cope as well as he appears to be.
I do not know him and have no vested interest in him.
But he is a person.
Apparently a decent person, as attested to by those who know him.
Hopefully, he will be able to stand above this all, learn some valuable life lessons and move on.

Instant replay vid:
Luke S definitely approached Luke P. at a fast pace. S’s fist closest to the camera is clenched TRUE
Don’t know if S. is cussing because there is no audio UNVERIFIED
Luke S’s hands are not raised high enough to swing at Luke P’s face. Even when P bends over, S’s hands are not by P’s face FALSE

It would be great if ABC also posted a replay of the alleged kick when down incident.