Bachelorette 15 - Luke Parker - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

lleyki wrote:

See, I don't think TPTB needed to make Luke the villain. He did that all by himself by being possessive with Hannah, aggressive with the men, and lying.

This exactly and frankly I find the million defenses and excuses for him to be a bit worrisome. As I've said, while I and I'm sure most will never question and doubt that the producers are extremely manipulative, I don't believe they have the power to pull something out of someone that isn't already there.

It was like how Vanessa has talked about not being her best self during her time on the show and it exacerbating all her insecurities. But the thing is, those insecurities and anxieties were already there in her. Being on the show just made it worse because yes, it's such a fish bowl, manipulative, pressure cooker environment.

So I don't doubt that the producers were manipulative and played up the negative aspects of Luke. I just believe they were able to do that because they saw those qualities in him. As far as I'm concerned, all these ugly parts we've seen of Luke were likely already there. Being in the madness of the show just shone a brighter light on it.

At the end of the day, some can point to all factors - producers, the other contestants, Hannah herself, etc. to excuse or rationalize Luke's behavior. I however choose to subscribe to one of my favorite quotes by Maya Angelou, "when a person shows you who they are, believe them". And Luke has shown who he is and it ain't pretty.

Now before we get another round of "he's not evil and a villain and a monster". I'm not saying he is. I'm not saying Luke is irredeemable and the worse human being in the world because that would be ridiculous. What I am saying is that he displays some troubling personality traits that hopefully, his being on the show and having a very negative spotlight shone on those traits helps him to grow and be better.

Sprite wrote:@RizBiz I'm sorry, but I must take exception here. Nick did not go screaming at the other men and at no point did he act aggressively. Sure he and Shawn mostly got into it, but never did I see him screaming, clenching his fists, knocking someone over and kneeing him in the head. He was not totally ostracised by the other guys...on either Bachelorette season. Yeah, he was cocky, but that is nowhere near to what Luke has been shown doing.

Obviously Luke is younger than Nick was during his first time on the show and yes, hopefully he will have a good look at himself and how he is coming across and learn from that. I think Nick did change somewhat...whether others think so or not....hence his changed/mellowed edit on BIP. He is still a smart a** at times, but WTH, so am I and I don't think that is a bad thing or something I necessarily need to change...just be more aware of the situations that I do it.

lleyki wrote:

See, I don't think TPTB needed to make Luke the villain. He did that all by himself by being possessive with Hannah, aggressive with the men, and lying.

This exactly and frankly I find the million defenses and excuses for him to be a bit worrisome. As I've said, while I and I'm sure most will never question and doubt that the producers are extremely manipulative, I don't believe they have the power to pull something out of someone that isn't already there.

It was like how Vanessa has talked about not being her best self during her time on the show and it exacerbating all her insecurities. But the thing is, those insecurities and anxieties were already there in her. Being on the show just made it worse because yes, it's such a fish bowl, manipulative, pressure cooker environment.

So I don't doubt that the producers were manipulative and played up the negative aspects of Luke. I just believe they were able to do that because they saw those qualities in him. As far as I'm concerned, all these ugly parts we've seen of Luke were likely already there. Being in the madness of the show just shone a brighter light on it.

At the end of the day, some can point to all factors - producers, the other contestants, Hannah herself, etc. to excuse or rationalize Luke's behavior. I however choose to subscribe to one of my favorite quotes by Maya Angelou, "when a person shows you who they are, believe them". And Luke has shown who he is and it ain't pretty.

Now before we get another round of "he's not evil and a villain and a monster". I'm not saying he is. I'm not saying Luke is irredeemable and the worse human being in the world because that would be ridiculous. What I am saying is that he displays some troubling personality traits that hopefully, his being on the show and having a very negative spotlight shone on those traits helps him to grow and be better.

RizBiz wrote:

Sprite wrote:@RizBiz I'm sorry, but I must take exception here. Nick did not go screaming at the other men and at no point did he act aggressively. Sure he and Shawn mostly got into it, but never did I see him screaming, clenching his fists, knocking someone over and kneeing him in the head. He was not totally ostracised by the other guys...on either Bachelorette season. Yeah, he was cocky, but that is nowhere near to what Luke has been shown doing.

Obviously Luke is younger than Nick was during his first time on the show and yes, hopefully he will have a good look at himself and how he is coming across and learn from that. I think Nick did change somewhat...whether others think so or not....hence his changed/mellowed edit on BIP. He is still a smart a** at times, but WTH, so am I and I don't think that is a bad thing or something I necessarily need to change...just be more aware of the situations that I do it.

I did not say that Nick and Luke had the SAME character flaws. I said that ALL the contestants have flaws. Some are highlighted negatively, others not so much.
Some human flaws are more obvious... others are more subtle. All can be devious.

While Luke’s particular flaws are extremely highlighted this season, (and very little of his qualities are being credited), this does not take away from the fact that so many others throughout the franchise, including Nick, have had  nasty character traits as well.

Personally, I didn’t mind Nick in his seasons, warts and all.
Neither do I mind Luke, warts and all.
One thing to be reminded of.  We are not shown everything that has transpired between contestants.
We are not necessarily shown what other comments were made which egged on the negative responses.

As I have mentioned before, they are created characters, necessary  to enhance a dramatic storyline for a show.
Embellished by the edit.
In real life, they both have personality flaws, as well as positive traits, although different ones from each other.
Viewers have seen them in a certain way, for a certain reason,  and very few people really know them for the true human beings they are.

And I only chose to focus on Nick because Illeyki mentioned Vanessa.
Could have chosen so, so, SO many others.
Life in a fish bowl ....

Lucas15 wrote:snipped
Great post. As to the bolded I totally agree. In fact when blogger Kelly Keegs asked some questions about Luke she heard plenty of stories of things he'd done in the past that were not so nice. Source

Sprite wrote:

RizBiz wrote:

Sprite wrote:@RizBiz I'm sorry, but I must take exception here. Nick did not go screaming at the other men and at no point did he act aggressively. Sure he and Shawn mostly got into it, but never did I see him screaming, clenching his fists, knocking someone over and kneeing him in the head. He was not totally ostracised by the other guys...on either Bachelorette season. Yeah, he was cocky, but that is nowhere near to what Luke has been shown doing.

Obviously Luke is younger than Nick was during his first time on the show and yes, hopefully he will have a good look at himself and how he is coming across and learn from that. I think Nick did change somewhat...whether others think so or not....hence his changed/mellowed edit on BIP. He is still a smart a** at times, but WTH, so am I and I don't think that is a bad thing or something I necessarily need to change...just be more aware of the situations that I do it.

I did not say that Nick and Luke had the SAME character flaws. I said that ALL the contestants have flaws. Some are highlighted negatively, others not so much.
Some human flaws are more obvious... others are more subtle. All can be devious.

While Luke’s particular flaws are extremely highlighted this season, (and very little of his qualities are being credited), this does not take away from the fact that so many others throughout the franchise, including Nick, have had  nasty character traits as well.

Personally, I didn’t mind Nick in his seasons, warts and all.
Neither do I mind Luke, warts and all.
One thing to be reminded of.  We are not shown everything that has transpired between contestants.
We are not necessarily shown what other comments were made which egged on the negative responses.

As I have mentioned before, they are created characters, necessary  to enhance a dramatic storyline for a show.
Embellished by the edit.
In real life, they both have personality flaws, as well as positive traits, although different ones from each other.
Viewers have seen them in a certain way, for a certain reason,  and very few people really know them for the true human beings they are.

And I only chose to focus on Nick because Illeyki mentioned Vanessa.
Could have chosen so, so, SO many others.
Life in a fish bowl ....

IMO there are character flaws...snarky, sarcastic, being a know it all...and then there are serious issues. IMO Luke has the latter...angry, manipulative, controlling, etc. The issues are much more difficult to deal with on and off the show. Clearly, Luke's issues are being magnified by editing and the circumstances in which he finds himself...as were Nick's and many others. Yes, there are things that are left out and the viewers don't know any of these people, but that doesn't change the fact that this is how he reacts in adverse circumstance. He is young and he has indicated that watching himself has been eye opening, so hopefully he can learn and change. MTA will be telling. If he just apologizes, stops making excuses and interrupting, he may be on the way. It will be really hard because the others will be prepped to push his buttons, including CH and they will edit everything to make it seem worse, but it will be interesting to hear the leaks from members of the audience and how they will feel he comes across.

blueblues wrote:^ I wonder if he will try to gaslight CH when he is in the hotseat. That could get interesting.

Sprite wrote:

RizBiz wrote:

Sprite wrote:@RizBiz I'm sorry, but I must take exception here. Nick did not go screaming at the other men and at no point did he act aggressively. Sure he and Shawn mostly got into it, but never did I see him screaming, clenching his fists, knocking someone over and kneeing him in the head. He was not totally ostracised by the other guys...on either Bachelorette season. Yeah, he was cocky, but that is nowhere near to what Luke has been shown doing.

Obviously Luke is younger than Nick was during his first time on the show and yes, hopefully he will have a good look at himself and how he is coming across and learn from that. I think Nick did change somewhat...whether others think so or not....hence his changed/mellowed edit on BIP. He is still a smart a** at times, but WTH, so am I and I don't think that is a bad thing or something I necessarily need to change...just be more aware of the situations that I do it.

I did not say that Nick and Luke had the SAME character flaws. I said that ALL the contestants have flaws. Some are highlighted negatively, others not so much.
Some human flaws are more obvious... others are more subtle. All can be devious.

While Luke’s particular flaws are extremely highlighted this season, (and very little of his qualities are being credited), this does not take away from the fact that so many others throughout the franchise, including Nick, have had  nasty character traits as well.

Personally, I didn’t mind Nick in his seasons, warts and all.
Neither do I mind Luke, warts and all.
One thing to be reminded of.  We are not shown everything that has transpired between contestants.
We are not necessarily shown what other comments were made which egged on the negative responses.

As I have mentioned before, they are created characters, necessary  to enhance a dramatic storyline for a show.
Embellished by the edit.
In real life, they both have personality flaws, as well as positive traits, although different ones from each other.
Viewers have seen them in a certain way, for a certain reason,  and very few people really know them for the true human beings they are.

And I only chose to focus on Nick because Illeyki mentioned Vanessa.
Could have chosen so, so, SO many others.
Life in a fish bowl ....

IMO there are character flaws...snarky, sarcastic, being a know it all...and then there are serious issues. IMO Luke has the latter...angry, manipulative, controlling, etc. The issues are much more difficult to deal with on and off the show. Clearly, Luke's issues are being magnified by editing and the circumstances in which he finds himself...as were Nick's and many others. Yes, there are things that are left out and the viewers don't know any of these people, but that doesn't change the fact that this is how he reacts in adverse circumstance. He is young and he has indicated that watching himself has been eye opening, so hopefully he can learn and change. MTA will be telling. If he just apologizes, stops making excuses and interrupting, he may be on the way. It will be really hard because the others will be prepped to push his buttons, including CH and they will edit everything to make it seem worse, but it will be interesting to hear the leaks from members of the audience and how they will feel he comes across.