Kaitlyn Bristowe - Bachelorette 11 - #5 - Discussion

@GuardianAngel She always says she is not a big wedding person and how everyone scares them about pressure of wedding planning. however, i think when/if time comes and your partner is also excited about wedding planning it can change your perception and you can't wait to plan it.
I support her decision for giving the ring back because it shows she is ready when/if shawn becomes ready... (at the end of the day, they both have said it from the beginning that they want another "actual/normal" proposal).

Aria wrote:Yeah, I'm sorry, but I just can't go along with this narrative of Kaitlyn being a spoiled, needy, attention-seeking brat while Shawn is the strong, silent type who just wants to work but his dang woman won't let him and keeps pestering him with silly things like "marriage" and "commitment". They're both a lot of work, but Kaitlyn has always supported his passion and businesses (she was crucial in starting CityStrong and was at every one of his events, which, let's be real, was the main reason people showed up). He'd be nowhere without her. She's always defended him and their relationship and, other than this anxiety-driven late night IG story, has kept the fact that her boyfriend doesn't want to marry her pretty private. It's just that people aren't stupid and can get a sense of what's happening, when we were promised things like weddings and re-proposals years ago and they're not still happening. And I just don't buy that Shawn has suddenly matured and Kaitlyn just isn't good enough for him anymore. No, because he dated another girl for 7 years and never married her, so it's clearly a pattern for him regardless of the girl. And, no, because according to Kaitlyn, they're no longer using protection and basically trying to have a baby, which means Shawn is happily signing on to a lifetime of commitment with the girl.  

I just have an issue with putting ALL of the responsibility on the woman. Either she's the doormat who waits around or she's like Rachel, desperate and marriage-obsessed, who has to give the guy an ultimatum or fake break up with him or whatever. Why can't the guy just have some integrity and be honest? IMO.

@Aria I like and agree with your points about Kaitlyn. There is is a certain type of woman who will find a way to make a man’s shortcoming the woman’s fault even in 2018 and it’s sad but enlightenment and self esteem are slowly improving our self perception so we’re much better at distributing blame than previous generations, IMO. 

Kaitlyn needs to get her ring back and put it in her own safety deposit box if she doesn’t want to wear it now for whatever reason, IMO. She’s past the two year mark, it’s a valuable asset that belongs to her and based upon the Shawn I saw during her season, before she dressed him and his attitude for prime time - she has earned it

Chgohighlife wrote:

Aria wrote:Yeah, I'm sorry, but I just can't go along with this narrative of Kaitlyn being a spoiled, needy, attention-seeking brat while Shawn is the strong, silent type who just wants to work but his dang woman won't let him and keeps pestering him with silly things like "marriage" and "commitment". They're both a lot of work, but Kaitlyn has always supported his passion and businesses (she was crucial in starting CityStrong and was at every one of his events, which, let's be real, was the main reason people showed up). He'd be nowhere without her. She's always defended him and their relationship and, other than this anxiety-driven late night IG story, has kept the fact that her boyfriend doesn't want to marry her pretty private. It's just that people aren't stupid and can get a sense of what's happening, when we were promised things like weddings and re-proposals years ago and they're not still happening. And I just don't buy that Shawn has suddenly matured and Kaitlyn just isn't good enough for him anymore. No, because he dated another girl for 7 years and never married her, so it's clearly a pattern for him regardless of the girl. And, no, because according to Kaitlyn, they're no longer using protection and basically trying to have a baby, which means Shawn is happily signing on to a lifetime of commitment with the girl.  

I just have an issue with putting ALL of the responsibility on the woman. Either she's the doormat who waits around or she's like Rachel, desperate and marriage-obsessed, who has to give the guy an ultimatum or fake break up with him or whatever. Why can't the guy just have some integrity and be honest? IMO.

@Aria I like and agree with your points about Kaitlyn. There is is a certain type of woman who will find a way to make a man’s shortcoming the woman’s fault even in 2018 and it’s sad but enlightenment and self esteem are slowly improving our self perception so we’re much better at distributing blame than previous generations, IMO. 

Kaitlyn needs to get her ring back and put it in her own safety deposit box if she doesn’t want to wear it now for whatever reason, IMO. She’s past the two year mark, it’s a valuable asset that belongs to her and based upon the Shawn I saw during her season, before she dressed him and his attitude for prime time - she has earned it

I am not a fan of this couple...as a couple or as individuals. I take no sides. To me they have both supported one another in whatever each of them has chosen to do. To simply dismiss what Shawn has done for Kaitlyn as of no importance kind of annoys me. He supported her when she was being dragged through the media for sleeping with Nick and stood by her through all that. He let her shine, because that is what she needs/wants. (Kaitlyn herself has said that she needs to be the center of attention....the funniest person in the room. She said it during her season and she reiterated it when she was guest hosting the Canadian Bachelor last year so that is straight from the horses mouth and not an opinion.) Yes, she has supported his fitness camps and the gym start up, but he has supported her Broadway thing, her music thing, her blogs and who knows what else.

One long term relationship where someone doesn't get married hardly constitutes a pattern. If Shawn does have issues with getting married because of his parents divorce, that is certainly something he has to deal with, however, that does not mean it is all his fault. Kaitlyn has her own issues and they could be playing a part in this. Personally, I don't see it all a his issue or her issue, but rather they are both negatively effecting the other. The fact that she is seemingly being passive/aggressive on her SM and in interviews by hinting that it is his fault, doesn't sit well with me. It would be the same if it was him doing it. Deal with it privately. I don't have a problem with her pressuring him to get married if that is what she wants...but do it privately and if he doesn't change....well, then that is on her. She has to take the responsibility for staying and putting up with his sh*t.

Finally, I hope that this "There is is a certain type of woman who will find a way to make a man’s shortcoming the woman’s fault even in 2018" is not aimed at me because I have defended Shawn. I hope that I have made it clear that I am neutral in this. I simply don't like to see someone so cavalierly dismissed because "He'd be nowhere without her" as if he hasn't supported her dreams just like she supported his. She doesn't have to be a doormat or marriage obsessed and I fully expect him to be honest about his feelings and needs. Since none of us are there, we don't know what they have talked about and what their issues are ... or even if they truly have any. I just hope for both their sake that they are honest with each other ... and themselves .... and don't let this get out of hand and play out in the media.

@Sprite Excellent Post !

So Shawn is ok procreating with her, but refuses to sign a marriage license. Alrighty then. Nothing binds you to another human more indefinitely and til death do you part than co-parenting. Marriage? Meh. Plenty of ways to break ties with that. Shawn is ridic. I didn’t like him on the show, and I’m not a huge fan now either. JMO

Idk. I think kids optimally want to be raised in a household with two parents that love each other. Hopefully, they can make themselves work before they start making popcorn.

@Sprite fantastic post. Those are exactly my opinions as well.

@Mozhi1 I guess this is why I'm confused. This thread starting hopping because k was posting IG about not being loved or whatever it was, she's always throwing digs about not getting married, or the lack of a proposal and wedding plans, and then I see that vid upthread where she claims she's not into a wedding. So I don't understand why we are discussing Shawn not being true to his words of marrying her when she herself has said she doesn't want a wedding, she would talk about babies but planning a wedding is not her thing.

@GuardianAngel Kaitlyn post the other night was the only thing that she ever posted that validates some of our assumptions, it could be absolutely nothing and just an anxiety heated post after a fight. Kaitlyn always said she is more excited about babies and never ever said anything negative about shawns not being into marriage, it was all our opinions. However, i think at the end of the day she wants marriage and wants her partner to be excited to call her his wife, it might not be her priority but i'm pretty sure if shawn was all in, she wouldn't say no thank you. She is being patient with his timing and wants him to be ready on his own.

GuardianAngel wrote:@Sprite fantastic post. Those are exactly my opinions as well.

@Mozhi1 I guess this is why I'm confused. This thread starting hopping because k was posting IG about not being loved or whatever it was, she's always throwing digs about not getting married, or the lack of a proposal and wedding plans, and then I see that vid upthread where she claims she's not into a wedding. So I don't understand why we are discussing Shawn not being true to his words of marrying her when she herself has said she doesn't want a wedding, she would talk about babies but planning a wedding is not her thing.

I’m confused too  Aren’t the key words in an engagement proposal “Will you marry me”? I assume a reproposal would include the same. And since she is open to be given back the same Neil Lane ring that came from the first proposal day, the words must be more important than the show association of the ring. Otherwise, the stones could be reset into something else and he could buy a new ring.
This is as confusing to me as when it was posted that she wanted to be offered a wedding by tptb but she she didn’t know if she would accept yet seemed to keep bringing it up as often as the dwts feud.
Regardless, they seem to weather these inconsistencies over the years so this too may be weathered.

Mozhi1 wrote:@GuardianAngel Kaitlyn post the other night was the only thing that she ever posted that validates some of our assumptions, it could be absolutely nothing and just an anxiety heated post after a fight. Kaitlyn always said she is more excited about babies and never ever said anything negative about shawns not being into marriage, it was all our opinions. However, i think at the end of the day she wants marriage and wants her partner to be excited to call her his wife, it might not be her priority but i'm pretty sure if shawn was all in, she wouldn't say no thank you. She is being patient with his timing and wants him to be ready on his own.

This is exactly what i was thinking. K is actually a complex individual and as much as she supports her man she is still a woman that at the end of the day “wants a nuclear family”. But yet still wants to be unique i think she struggles and goes back and forth marriage and not marriage. Okay with or without it. (Deep down I believe she really wants it. IMO). It can certainly take a toll. I totally get where she is coming from.

Engaged girl here living together for 6 years and no sign of marriage in the future that i can see on his part. Our kids bug us most about it.

But yah i say either way with or without. (But my secret girly self wants him to sweep my off my feet and say lets run away and get married tomorrow)

Yep I see where she is coming from. (Good things she froze her eggs)

These two I just don’t get it at all.  I mean what exactly they are waiting for? I don’t get their old reasons about being so  busy . Meh that is not the case why you cannot start planning . They keep changing their reasons every time the “marriage talk comes in a certain interviews and it is getting old.” And now she is saying “she is excited to have babies now than getting married” . For all we know she gave back that ring to Shawn to pressure him contrary to what she said “ No pressure “.  I do think Shawn is not going to marry her . Not because he doesn’t love her or whatsoever . Just because Shawn is afraid of commitment . Well as long they keep this long engagement they will keep their names out there and also capitalize it. Jmo.

I believe the same thing about Kaitlyn and Sean that I’d do about the other two pending Bachelorette couples, Jojo and Jordan and Rachel and Bryan - IMO, tell any of the couples they can have an individual televised wedding, of their own, with all the bells and whistles and they’d be getting ready even faster than Jared and Ashley. 
No matter how much money they make doing other things, the camera fever they ALL have, the social media boost, the chance to fame whore one more time at the ultimate level would break down every objection any or all of those couples have, IMO. I know there are fans who want to believe their couple is better than that but, I don’t believe it for a minute and no one knows because they haven’t been asked. They can be cute and coy and skirt the issue all they want because only Rachel and Bryan are honest enough to admit they want it but, a camera and national tv audience would have any of those couples “I do”ing like their lives depend on it, IMO. I do not believe for one second that any one of them would say no. Not one of them. Especially not Kaitlyn and Sean. JMO.