Bachelor 22 - Arie Luyendyk Jr - Episodes - Feb 19th - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

You can have the perfect past and I'm still going to criticize when you do something like drop your f1 for your f2. I certainly criticized Ashley when she let Ben propose. I don't really care if they get pressure to do it. I also dissed Jason early on although began to like him & Molly as time when on.

I will listen to what Arie has to say but I don't expect to be swayed just because I think it could have been handled much better no matter what his explanation is.

GuardianAngel wrote:I don't see a difference in Arie's past at all. I'm not so sure what he did. He's dated women, he hasn't committed to any of them. If he splits after a short time, I give him credit for not dragging on a relationship that he doesn't want. I give him credit for not professing his love or leading them on to a future together.  I wasn't sure what Jordan or Ed did either, a lot of rumours and RS input. It didn't matter for me because I deal with who's on my screen and who I'm sleuthing at the time. Those two btw have done pretty good for themselves for someone who have had a past.

JoJo apparently chose a rotten tinder playing cheating F1.  Kaitlyn chose a jealous anger issues F1. They are blissfully happy.They both had their share of ugly SM for their choices, so did Jillian for choosing Ed, so yes, I don't think it would be any different if a female lead chooses a baddy or has a past of her own.

Arie was prepared to be committed to the woman who got pregnant. That's a plus for me. I don't know who he dated that was younger than him, how long did they last, how many there were, did he bring them home to meet Mom, did he promise them anything, how old was he, or was it a matter of having one night stands where both parties agree.

This is where my opinion may differ. Having sex on this show with any other contestant who is very well not going to be the F1, only to lead that person on to make them think they will be the F1, then tell the real F1 they were always the one, for me is much more worse than choosing someone and having the guts to change their mind for the one they realize they truly want.

I assume you're talking about Kaitlyn here CMIIW. I didn't like it when she downplayed Nick. I and many other Nick fans were upset about that and we made it known here. To me Arie is doing the same thing with Becca when he says that he hasn't felt this way since Emily about Lauren. He chose and proposed to a woman he didn't even feel as strongly about as his last TV girlfriend. That's also leading someone on to me. And if we're talking about leads having sex with someone other than their F1, well I'd bet on Arie having sex with all his F3 in the FS. All JMO.

GuardianAngel wrote:snip
Having sex on this show with any other contestant who is very well not going to be the F1, only to lead that person on to make them think they will be the F1, then tell the real F1 they were always the one, for me is much more worse than choosing someone and having the guts to change their mind for the one they realize they truly want.

ITA and it surely does complicate things. But IMO it's not that unusual at all - the reasons are sometimes bad but sometimes more understandable. Bob Guiney (supposedly) had sex with 5.5 women on his season. Likely nothing more than horn dog activity, IMO. But from what I've read, Trista had sex not only with Ryan but also with Charlie. When that came out her reason was that sex was very important to her and she had to find out if she was compatible with her possible choices (and Ryan BTW did have a problem with this but he got over it - just as Shawn did with Kaitlyn). So that doesn't make what Trista did any less complicated IMO but at least I understand why she did it.

albean99 wrote:
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I certainly criticized Ashley when she let Ben propose. I don't really care if they get pressure to do it.
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I also dissed Jason early on although began to like him & Molly as time when on.

IMO both of those situations are examples of things that were far more complicated and different than what I think I saw. In general I don't forgive certain behaviors but still seek to understand why people may have done the unforgivable. But those two I forgive (though I still think Jason a gullible fool).

I just think he changed his mind. I would hate to think I had to choose someone to marry and stick with it, even if I felt I had made a mistake. These people have so little time to get to know each other and are influenced by producers, since good tv gets ratings. I didn't think that Jason should stay with Melissa for a lifetime if he believed Molly was the one. I don't think Arie needs to keep anyone if he's not feeling it. It will be interesting to watch hometown's and see how the editing leads us to feel about the situation, because they are controlling what we see and influencing how we feel too.

One thing about hometowns is the next bachelorette may shine through. Don't necessarily think it will be Becca. Anxious to see how they portray Tia, since I'm sure she is a contender.

My problem isn't that he changed his mind. I don't think anyone here thinks he should stay with someone he's not feeling it with. My problem is that he appears to have chosen and proposed to a woman he doesn't even seem to like all that much better than the women he's let go before her. He's straight up said in his blog that he hasn't felt this way since Emily about Lauren, so he's even downplaying anything he felt about Becca. It's just so hard for me to believe he even fell in love with two women. It was much more believable when Jason and Benji claimed it.

I like Tia a lot and I'm personally fine with her being the Bachelorette but I think she lost her chance when TPTB decided to throw her under the bus by not showing the full reason why she warned Arie about Bekah. And then RS's spoilers say she and Bekah go at it at the WTA. That doesn't sound like a next Bachelorette edit to me.

All JMO.

bluwavz wrote:snip
My problem is that he appears to have chosen and proposed to a woman he doesn't even seem to like all that much better than the women he's let go before her. He's straight up said in his blog that he hasn't felt this way since Emily about Lauren, so he's even downplaying anything he felt about Becca. It's just so hard for me to believe he even fell in love with two women.
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A really interesting point very well articulated. IIRC in an interview when asked for a one-word description of several women, his description of Becca was "solid". Hardly a ringing endorsement for someone you pick as your fiancee, IMO. But if he felt that he couldn't pick Lauren, Becca does seem to me to be a "solid" choice. Of who he has left, Kendal is just a bit too quirky and her love of taxidermy a bit edgy shall I say? Previews of the HTD show Arie a little creeped out by it. Tia got herself involved in a tattle tail incident with Bekah and that never seems to sit well with any lead. Becca has kept herself "clean" with really no negatives; unfortunately I also don't see any real positives either, but she is "solid".

But here's something that's been rattling around in my brain; I don't know if it means anything more than just a screw loose in my brain, but ...

IMO Arie has never gone wanting for female companionship. Some I'm sure he's pursued but others (eg Sydney) chased him. I'm sure he's had his share of one night stands along the way also. IMO none of this really separates him from many other single guys (or single women for that matter). BUT - he's only ever claimed to have been in love with two women - Cassie Harshman and Emily. And both of those two dumped him and IMO caught him blindsided in the way it was done (we saw Emily do it and heard how Cassie did it). IMO - he may be very lucky in sex - but he's really not lucky at all in love. Could that make someone "solid" seem attractive - and safe (especially if it seems to Arie that she turned down a proposal so she would be available to him)?

My problem is once you get engaged, you can’t just call the other girl on premiere night and feel her out to see if you’d even be able to switch. And then full on orchestrate a switch with production. I feel like that’s what he did and I don’t like it. The grass is always greener for this guy.

If Lauren didn’t give him the time of day would he have stayed with Becca? He was hedging his bets.

I read Luke criticized for hanging out with one woman during filming, then turn to another after, yet we are complimenting Arie for the same thing.

We criticize Luke for going from women to women, yet Arie has had two relationships that he considers relationships and the girls who were the others are criticized for being with him without commitment.

There is a double standard with Arie. He is no better than Luke and the others, but his stuff is blamed on the women and with the other guys it is blamed on the man.

I just don't get it. I enjoy Arie as a person, but he doesn't treat women in a relationship sense very well. IMO.

First, IMO an engagement on this show is like me playing Mario Cart and thinking I am truly driving a car or even a race car driver. JMOAA  One is nothing like the other. 
Second, once again I am not sure what the true facts are in the situation. I can speculate, but my speculations would only be wild guesses even to myself. 
What if neither party was really solidly sold on an engagement. One party says they fell in love with 2 women and the other has a long term ex come back on the last episode to propose to her. There could have been lots of mixed on emotions on the part of 2 people and not just one going into this "engagement". 
Then they go home to real life and that could have put a damper on everything and everyone involved. 
Aries' moves have been documented somewhat post show, but we don't know how Becca actually felt on return. That is a big question mark. Did she talk to her ex? Have coffee? Talk to friends that were in touch with him? 
There could have been a lot of issues going on with both parties leading to the decision that was made. 
Either way, Becca really seems happy and fine with things and this is not that long ago. So I would think all is good in her world. JMO

Kasha I love your Mario Cart analogy - IMO it's very apt. Further to that, when I see the rare snippits (say of an actual date with camera crew in tow) it reminds me that what we see each week - edited down from hours and hours of raw footage - looks a lot more like reality to us that it ever looked and felt to the couple on the date, so there's that.

I also have always pondered from the time I first learned that a "long term" ex returns and proposes to one of the final two - how lopsided that situation could have been. In the balance of 7 years on the one hand versus 70 hours on the other - how equal is that? I think not very but I have no idea how good / bad the 7 years might have actually been so while I can wonder, I can't know; there just not enough data to know. But I think your "what ifs?" are the sorts of things I would wonder about as well.

While we here may not take the engagement seriously, more of a will you date me in the real world, we can not say the the ones getting engaged didn't take it seriously.

Jojo and Jordan, Rachel and Bryan and Kaitlyn and Shawn all have taken it pretty seriously, IMO.  They've dated and worked out life together without rushing to get to marriage since they did everything so fast to start with.  And they may want another private proposal just for them down the road, but they are engaged.

So all relationships and engagements on this show are not taken as a joke.  

JMO

@Kashathediva I take the engagement as a commitment to date one person. I don't see it as I want to marry. I see it as I am only dating you.  If you are only dating one person, IMO quit calling other women and looking up pictures of other women.

And I can agree we don't know the whole story with Arie, Becca and Lauren.  We also don't know the whole story with Luke. Did he get the approval of said girl back home to go do Winter Games and make some money? If you are going on a bachelor program, "romance" is part of the show, so she would know he was going to "romance" someone.  She is with him this weekend, so it seems to me she had no problem with it.

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JMO, it we are giving Arie the benefit of the doubt, let's give it to * all the other guys too.