Nick Viall - Bachelor 21 - Discussion

Bluejay271 wrote:

Ladybug82 wrote:How exactly do we know it's Vanessa that Nicks thinking about?  That is just an opinion, correct?

Yes, it's my opinion but I'm also basing it on the information that I see in front of me. Between Nick posting that picture with him wearing the Blue Jays cap and him liking a bunch of sad, heart-breaking posts about love...I mean, who else do you think that he would be thinking about when doing those things? The man broke up with his fiance of nine months not even a month ago and I'm to assume that he's exhibiting this kind lovelorn SM behaviour over someone else? Logically, I think that it's a no-brainer that he would be thinking about Vanessa especially given the timing of everything, don't you?  

COMPLETELY AGREE!!!

Skates wrote:

Bluejay271 wrote:

Stacia620 wrote:
Did he like this post before or after Vanessa's latest freestyle show?  Because she certainly acted like she didn't GAF. jmo.  I really hope Nick meets someone soon who is a perfect fit for him. jmo

I didn't watch the Freestyle show but I've definitely learned my lesson when it comes to Vanessa's ability to be professional and mask her true emotions under a smile. I'm not criticizing her for it-- I think it's an admirable quality in a way--however, I will never forget the fact that the only reason why I was shocked that Nick and Vanessa broke up was because of the way that Vanessa always acted when it came to SM/ sharing her life when she was with Nick. Though Nick made it apparent that he was struggling with their situation, Vanessa always seemed so happy and always spoke so glowingly about him that I wanted to believe that Nick was simply uncomfortable with being a couple in public and that they were happier together in their private life. Of course, that didn't turn out to be true. I obviously misread Vanessa/the situation...and I guess it is possible that I'm misreading her still.

However, I'm the kind of person who tends to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise and I just get the sense that Vanessa is someone who really cares about her image and cares about being liked in general (hence why she had so many issues with the internet trolling) which could make her seem a little disingenuous sometimes even though she means well and is a pretty genuine person overall (IMO). She wasn't going to go on the Freestyle show and act anything other than upbeat and professional which is why I wouldn't think much of it. JMO  

In some way, Vanessa should really care about her image since she is a teacher...in Canada, showing professionalism, being discrete on their private lives, behaving properly and not being raunchy on SM is a big thing since teachers maybe projected as role models for students...but, I think it is also part of her growing up to be nice to people but also being sensitive to what people say...regardless as based on her personalities...I don't think Vanessa is faking her happiness since she is such a blunt person...although she can also be classy, tactful and be professional altogether...   -  JMO  -

I never meant to say that she was faking her happiness...but you have to admit that it was a little strange that she posted a video of her dancing to 'Shape of You' on her Instagram story and tagged it to Nick (and Peta) literally two days before the break-up and she did make it seem on social media that they were happier than they clearly were. I'm not criticizing her for caring about her image...but I think what I've learned about Vanessa is that she is genuine, blunt and honest when she is living her life in the moment (ie. when she was on the show and building a relationship with Nick) but that she also doesn't have a problem constructing her own narrative in the eyes of the public if it means that she can liked by all. Vanessa is always bubbly and charming in interviews because in those moments she isn't really living her life; when she's doing an interview, she makes it her mission to be professional and charming because she really wants people to like her--like most people want to be liked, to be fair. I think that really the only exception was her interview during ATFR but if I had to guess it was probably because emotions were still high (especially if they had just watched the finale) and Nick and Vanessa had agreed to be honest about the difficulties of their relationship which was a decision that affected the tone and mood of the interview. I just feel like Vanessa was clearly more of a politician in interviews than I initially believed only because she was so raw and real on the show...but at the same time, I also know that she is genuine because Nick wouldn't fall for someone who isn't real (and he wouldn't clearly still be pining for her if she wasn't real, either). I just think that she did play into the media-game a little bit; that doesn't make her a bad person--in fact, I think that it makes her fairly normal as most people in the public eye are media-trained. It's okay to want to be liked and to want to put on your best face when the cameras are rolling around you (and again, to her credit, I thought that she was very genuine when she was filming The Bachelor so I'm only really talking about interviews/social media related stuff)--but if there's anything that I've re-learned from this experience it's that perception and reality can be two different things especially if image is important to the person doing the posting.

However, with Nick I think it's easier for me to take his social media activity at face value because I don't see him as particularly media-trained and, to me, he was always transparent about the fact that him and Vanessa were clearly struggling at times in the relationship. I'm not saying that Nick is more genuine than Vanessa--I just think that he doesn't possess that same level of desire to be liked, probably because he's been in the public eye long enough to know that he will never be liked by everyone and has therefore decided to just be himself and let the chips fall where they may. I didn't follow Nick when he was on Andi's season (or really Kaitlyn's season for that matter) so I have no idea how he conducted himself in interviews back then...but the Nick that I saw during Bachelor/ DWTS promo/ podcasts is someone who is blunt and who will give honest answers even at the risk of being a little polarizing at times.

To be clear, I have no ill feelings towards Vanessa; I think that she is an amazing, genuine woman with a lot of integrity and a huge heart. That being said, I personally find it difficult now to take her actions at face value especially when she is performing in front of a camera. It's not that I feel deceived by her necessarily as I do think that she genuinely enjoyed sharing her love for Nick on social media and that the feelings associated with her decision to post pictures of them together were real at the time...but I guess I just feel a little bit foolish in hindsight for believing the narrative that she was trying to convey and I think that apart of me is still trying to get over it. However, I'll take part of the blame for those feelings as I'll admit that I genuinely wanted to believe Vanessa instead of Nick at the time and so I clearly misconstrued/ misinterpreted the situation as a result. I do feel like I still give Vanessa the benefit of the doubt for a lot of things but I can't let her off the hook for making me feel blindsided by the end of her and Nick's relationship...even though I technically should have seen it coming from a mile away. JMO

If all of Nick's likes of quotes, cryptic tweets and posting a pic of him in a hat that screams Vanesssa - are about anyone other than Vanessa - well IMHO it's not a good look for Nick and IMO not cool!

KayP wrote:If all of Nick's likes of quotes, cryptic tweets and posting a pic of him in a hat that screams Vanesssa - are about anyone other than Vanessa - well IMHO it's not a good look for Nick and IMO not cool!

I think that's the reason why I get defensive and offended by the notion that he would be thinking about anyone other than Vanessa. Not only is it completely illogical and makes no sense whatsoever but it also wouldn't reflect very well on Nick's character.

However, that being said, I'm not concerned in the slightest.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - I'm not concerned either!

KayP wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - I'm not concerned either!  

Bluejay271 wrote:

Skates wrote:

Bluejay271 wrote:

I didn't watch the Freestyle show but I've definitely learned my lesson when it comes to Vanessa's ability to be professional and mask her true emotions under a smile. I'm not criticizing her for it-- I think it's an admirable quality in a way--however, I will never forget the fact that the only reason why I was shocked that Nick and Vanessa broke up was because of the way that Vanessa always acted when it came to SM/ sharing her life when she was with Nick. Though Nick made it apparent that he was struggling with their situation, Vanessa always seemed so happy and always spoke so glowingly about him that I wanted to believe that Nick was simply uncomfortable with being a couple in public and that they were happier together in their private life. Of course, that didn't turn out to be true. I obviously misread Vanessa/the situation...and I guess it is possible that I'm misreading her still.

However, I'm the kind of person who tends to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise and I just get the sense that Vanessa is someone who really cares about her image and cares about being liked in general (hence why she had so many issues with the internet trolling) which could make her seem a little disingenuous sometimes even though she means well and is a pretty genuine person overall (IMO). She wasn't going to go on the Freestyle show and act anything other than upbeat and professional which is why I wouldn't think much of it. JMO  

In some way, Vanessa should really care about her image since she is a teacher...in Canada, showing professionalism, being discrete on their private lives, behaving properly and not being raunchy on SM is a big thing since teachers maybe projected as role models for students...but, I think it is also part of her growing up to be nice to people but also being sensitive to what people say...regardless as based on her personalities...I don't think Vanessa is faking her happiness since she is such a blunt person...although she can also be classy, tactful and be professional altogether...   -  JMO  -

I never meant to say that she was faking her happiness...but you have to admit that it was a little strange that she posted a video of her dancing to 'Shape of You' on her Instagram story and tagged it to Nick (and Peta) literally two days before the break-up and she did make it seem on social media that they were happier than they clearly were. I'm not criticizing her for caring about her image...but I think what I've learned about Vanessa is that she is genuine, blunt and honest when she is living her life in the moment (ie. when she was on the show and building a relationship with Nick) but that she also doesn't have a problem constructing her own narrative in the eyes of the public if it means that she can liked by all. Vanessa is always bubbly and charming in interviews because in those moments she isn't really living her life; when she's doing an interview, she makes it her mission to be professional and charming because she really wants people to like her--like most people want to be liked, to be fair. I think that really the only exception was her interview during ATFR but if I had to guess it was probably because emotions were still high (especially if they had just watched the finale) and Nick and Vanessa had agreed to be honest about the difficulties of their relationship which was a decision that affected the tone and mood of the interview. I just feel like Vanessa was clearly more of a politician in interviews than I initially believed only because she was so raw and real on the show...but at the same time, I also know that she is genuine because Nick wouldn't fall for someone who isn't real (and he wouldn't clearly still be pining for her if she wasn't real, either). I just think that she did play into the media-game a little bit; that doesn't make her a bad person--in fact, I think that it makes her fairly normal as most people in the public eye are media-trained. It's okay to want to be liked and to want to put on your best face when the cameras are rolling around you (and again, to her credit, I thought that she was very genuine when she was filming The Bachelor so I'm only really talking about interviews/social media related stuff)--but if there's anything that I've re-learned from this experience it's that perception and reality can be two different things especially if image is important to the person doing the posting.

However, with Nick I think it's easier for me to take his social media activity at face value because I don't see him as particularly media-trained and, to me, he was always transparent about the fact that him and Vanessa were clearly struggling at times in the relationship. I'm not saying that Nick is more genuine than Vanessa--I just think that he doesn't possess that same level of desire to be liked, probably because he's been in the public eye long enough to know that he will never be liked by everyone and has therefore decided to just be himself and let the chips fall where they may. I didn't follow Nick when he was on Andi's season (or really Kaitlyn's season for that matter) so I have no idea how he conducted himself in interviews back then...but the Nick that I saw during Bachelor/ DWTS promo/ podcasts is someone who is blunt and who will give honest answers even at the risk of being a little polarizing at times.

To be clear, I have no ill feelings towards Vanessa; I think that she is an amazing, genuine woman with a lot of integrity and a huge heart. That being said, I personally find it difficult now to take her actions at face value especially when she is performing in front of a camera. It's not that I feel deceived by her necessarily as I do think that she genuinely enjoyed sharing her love for Nick on social media and that the feelings associated with her decision to post pictures of them together were real at the time...but I guess I just feel a little bit foolish in hindsight for believing the narrative that she was trying to convey and I think that apart of me is still trying to get over it. However, I'll take part of the blame for those feelings as I'll admit that I genuinely wanted to believe Vanessa instead of Nick at the time and so I clearly misconstrued/ misinterpreted the situation as a result. I do feel like I still give Vanessa the benefit of the doubt for a lot of things but I can't let her off the hook for making me feel blindsided by the end of her and Nick's relationship...even though I technically should have seen it coming from a mile away. JMO

- IMO - Honestly speaking, I don't think Vanessa has done anything wrong during the Facebook Freestyle Show...a viewer asked a question on whether she is really Vanessa from The Bachelor...and, she has made a mistake of making fun of herself by saying she probably looks different now after the breakup...thus, leading into her being forced to comment about Nick, this just shows her bluntness/abruptness when responding to people which could mean her being real and not hiding anything...she keeps on explaining that her comment doesn't imply anything...and, finally, saying Nick is a good guy...it does become awkward...but, I can't see her intentions as trying to be mean to Nick, it doesn't give any shade notions to me...Vanessa is more free spirited, I think she takes what people say into heart...but, I don't think she has any intentions of trying to give people the notion thinking that she is really happy although she is not/she is really struggling in the relationships...if this is the case, she would have carried on the show up to the end...I don't actually believe that Nick is not happy in the relationships, but I feel like he is not 100% on the relationships since he seems to be unsure of himself...as someone has mentioned previously...he has built a wall around himself even Vanessa can't surmount and climb over it...I also feel like Vanessa is more invested in the relationship...thus, it is not surprising she feels over the moon more than Nick...she is taking actions to make it work, thus sacrificing herself by taking her time staying in LA...but, she has probably been disappointed with the outcome...and, has decided to quit...everything goes back to both of them pursuing different goals and dreams...including the timing on building a family...Vanessa may have been ready to start a family, but Nick doesn't seem to be... - JMO -

- IMO - Although Vanessa may have the intentions trying to be nice to preserve her image due to her being a teacher...I think she is still real in the sense that she would respond to people when she thinks she needs be...but, I really admire her in being tactful and knowing how to deliver herself without projecting a bad image during those situations...and, her compassion, her patience, her bluntness personalities still reflect in social media and work together quite nicely giving the impression that she is trying to please everybody...Nick doesn't have the patience, he is not tactful, thus he has the tendency to say something that may hurt people more as well as hurting his image in the process of showing his reactions...

- IMO - These scenarios have reminded me of 2 celebrities who have been together for a long time, finally breaking up due to different family plans...the woman wanting to continue pursuing her acting career and the man wanting to settle down...the man has found another woman who finally yield-in to his family plans, and the other woman ends up regretting her decisions, wanting to get back together with the man..the awkwardness in their situations have caused their relationships to be severed, both of them not wanting to talk to each other/not wanting to work together professionally, losing their chances to reconnect again even on friendly terms...I believe that both still have feelings for each other. but, both have been adamant due to the decisions made during the breakup - JMO -

- IMO - I hope this doesn't happen to both Nick and Vanessa...it does seem likely that they are still in touch... - JMO -

There is another explanation for Nick's SM - acceptance.
When people grieve the loss of a relationship, the person and the future they envisioned, they often go through stages like denial, anger, and finally acceptance. To get there you have to accept or acknowledge your own emotions and single status, like still having love feelings but with that comes the hurt of knowing the love was not enough, that despite the good qualities Nick loved in V, the day to day relationship wasn't what either wanted/needed in a marriage. Honestly, living together is a great way to find that out and if it isn't working that's just reality. JMO but I think marriage and children is something both want but marriage to each other ended up not being a good fit.
Why the likes of quotes?  By letting yourself feel that hurt you don't get stuck in limbo. You can do yourself a disservice through avoidance so IMO one needs to just let yourself feel/acknowledge hurt, in order to move on. Nick lives in the once shared apartment so he can't really avoid a place where they once cooked, made love, argued, laughed. That hits hard for the person still there but it also is a strong reality check so IMO wearing a cap (by the way, first seen in Mexico at the wedding which was possibly an up/down weekend) is likely much less emotional than his first week alone in the apartment. By still being in LA he has likely already walked by or been to places they used to shop or eat at so again he gradually faces the future without her at a natural pace. Gradually reminders of her will be less frequent.  They will just be places and the cap will just be an item of clothing.  Every heartbroken person needs to not avoid in order to heal.
IMO his decision to post a pic with a tshirt logo "Are you ready?" in retrospect was him waiting for V to be ready to announce the breakup. I also don't fault her for continuing to post pics and vid with her engagement ring however the breakup announcement did come very shortly after she posted her pasta pic with no rings. I did think she was a more reliable narrator than I do now. Now I just think she deals with things differently for her own reasons, reasons I don't understand but am also not going judge her for. If I am correct, then Nick overcame the denial stage much sooner than V.
I also think Nick has replaced anger with intentionally striving to be positive. In SM he is doing things he enjoys like hiking, working out, playing with animation features, visiting his fav people, even getting a custom suit for the wedding in NYC. We choose our mindset and this positivity plus his giving back to others by working the Red Cross phone line and participating in the Red Cross day are all pluses to rebuilding a quality life as a single person.
IMO V was the right choice for Nick on the show and like any new relationship, the more you know the more knowledge you have to decide the course of the relationship. In this case, it wasn't right for marriage. V will be right for someone else just as Nick will be for someone else.  Ideally, when each gets to the point that they each can acknowledge the good traits each other had, and the good relationship traits, then they each can take that learning into a new relationship with someone who offers that and whatever was missing. Breakups are sad but most people have a lot of them over the course of a lifetime and it's my belief that it is a relationship that fails but that people themselves are not failures.  People are merely human looking for lasting love.

Is anyone able to give us a link to this week's freestyle vid? Tia...

Billysmom wrote:Is anyone able to give us a link to this week's freestyle vid? Tia...

It is on Vanessa's thread.

Skates wrote:


       -  IMO  -   Honestly speaking, I don't think Vanessa has done anything wrong during the Facebook Freestyle Show...a viewer asked a question on whether she is really Vanessa from The Bachelor...and, she has made a mistake of making fun of herself by saying she probably looks different now after the breakup...thus, leading into her being forced to comment about Nick, this just shows her bluntness/abruptness when responding to people which could mean her being real and not hiding anything...she keeps on explaining that her comment doesn't imply anything...and, finally, saying Nick is a good guy...it does become awkward...but, I can't see her intentions as trying to be mean to Nick, it doesn't give any shade notions to me...Vanessa is more free spirited, I think she takes what people say into heart...but, I don't think she has any intentions of trying to give people the notion thinking that she is really happy although she is not/she is really struggling in the relationships...if this is the case, she would have carried on the show up to the end.. -

Honestly, I didn't know any of this. I didn't watch the Freestyle show so I assumed that Vanessa was just being professional/bubbly and that people took that to mean that she didn't care. Wow...okay, I'm feeling kind of awkward just reading that. I don't really know why she would willingly mention the break-up even if it were a joke. That's kind of strange to me...

Okay, I think that settles it then. I think I'm going to stop pretending to understand Vanessa because every time I make assumptions about her I always feel like I'm proven wrong. I've decided that I have no idea how she is feeling at the moment...not a clue...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] You're not proven wrong. You are entitled to your opinions since there is no concrete proof from Vanessa herself on how she's feeling.