BACHELOR 22 - Arie Luyendyk Jr General Discussion - **NO SPOILERS** - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION

Let me preface this post by saying that I only watched Lauren's date and then the end. They played the romantic music over their date. It felt like Arie was actually revealing himself to Lauren, which we haven't seen a lot of with other women, except maybe Beks. As time's gone on with Bekah, it seems like the lustre has worn off.

The very telling part of this episode: the post-RC segment. It's rare that the show concludes with us seeing the behind the scenes. So why did they leave in there for the audience Lauren's very obvious frustration at the other women's reactions to Tuscany? Why did they let us hear her talking about her fears? We see her say, "I also am terrified that he's going to pick someone else," and then it cuts to Becca holding and smelling her rose. They did that with JoJo, too, but to a lesser degree. Either way, their date had an F1 quality to it, but then we have this elaborate BTS convo and it feels like she's F2. But if she's F2, why do we need that extensive insight into her feelings?

Anyway, Lauren is a big figure in the end of this thing, I suspect now, as well as Becca after that BTS segment. I have to watch again to see if Kendall, Sienne, Tia, or Bekah could be the counterpart to Lauren's struggle.

veg_out wrote:Let me preface this post by saying that I only watched Lauren's date and then the end. They played the romantic music over their date. It felt like Arie was actually revealing himself to Lauren, which we haven't seen a lot of with other women, except maybe Beks. As time's gone on with Bekah, it seems like the lustre has worn off.

The very telling part of this episode: the post-RC segment. It's rare that the show concludes with us seeing the behind the scenes. So why did they leave in there for the audience Lauren's very obvious frustration at the other women's reactions to Tuscany? Why did they let us hear her talking about her fears? We see her say, "I also am terrified that he's going to pick someone else," and then it cuts to Becca holding and smelling her rose. They did that with JoJo, too, but to a lesser degree. Either way, their date had an F1 quality to it, but then we have this elaborate BTS convo and it feels like she's F2. But if she's F2, why do we need that extensive insight into her feelings?

Anyway, Lauren is a big figure in the end of this thing, I suspect now, as well as Becca after that BTS segment. I have to watch again to see if Kendall, Sienne, Tia, or Bekah could be the counterpart to Lauren's struggle.

You didn't miss much by just watching their date. 

I agree that they left that chat with the producer in there for a reason. More than ever we are being beaten over the head with her fear of not opening up  enough and that he will pick someone else.

Arie really did open up to her during that date. I wonder how that ex feels with something so personal being revealed on national television? I wouldn't be happy since I'm sure trolls could easily find our who she was and drag her into something she didn't ask for. I wonder if we will now see her getting interviewed?

Based on everything I've seen so far, that seemed the most intimate date. Also very romantic with the dancing at the end of the episode. My only quibble is with the fact that despite the sharing of personal, intimate life details and the dancing finish, much of the rest of it was so awkward. They were both so stiff and the conversations was either non existent or very stilted. 

I love your breakdown of this date. It did have the feel of an F1 date, but it also didn't. And that is my whole issue. During it she was being shown as F1 and F2...which all leads me to think that we are on the right path with our Mesnick theory. What is she is this years Molly? The one he was supposed to pick based on connection, but for whatever reason doesn't. Now I would throw in the possibility that it is her boyfriend that comes back and throws a spanner in the works. Does she take him back leaving Arie to make due? But that doesn't make sense to me since she is the one who keeps harping on Arie picking someone else and if she rejected the boyfriend, then she would be available for him to pick, so does he pick someone else and then changes his mind...like Jason? I think that would make the most sense. But then whose boyfriend comes back? I can't see it being Kendall since she said she never had a serious relationship. I don't remember, what did Becca say about past relationships?

You noticed the focus on Becca during this episode...re picking someone else. That would tie in with what I have been seeing....Becca as F1, but not because I see that much of a connection between the two, but because for one reason or another, I have eliminated everyone else....including Lauren. So if Arie picks Becca, but regrets it and then does a Mesnick and goes back to Lauren that would actually work well with the edit....including Becca's pristine edit setting her up for the Bette. Wow. Am I still loopy or does that actually make sense? Now I am really tempted to go spoil myself and see what they have.

Sprite wrote:

veg_out wrote:Let me preface this post by saying that I only watched Lauren's date and then the end. They played the romantic music over their date. It felt like Arie was actually revealing himself to Lauren, which we haven't seen a lot of with other women, except maybe Beks. As time's gone on with Bekah, it seems like the lustre has worn off.

The very telling part of this episode: the post-RC segment. It's rare that the show concludes with us seeing the behind the scenes. So why did they leave in there for the audience Lauren's very obvious frustration at the other women's reactions to Tuscany? Why did they let us hear her talking about her fears? We see her say, "I also am terrified that he's going to pick someone else," and then it cuts to Becca holding and smelling her rose. They did that with JoJo, too, but to a lesser degree. Either way, their date had an F1 quality to it, but then we have this elaborate BTS convo and it feels like she's F2. But if she's F2, why do we need that extensive insight into her feelings?

Anyway, Lauren is a big figure in the end of this thing, I suspect now, as well as Becca after that BTS segment. I have to watch again to see if Kendall, Sienne, Tia, or Bekah could be the counterpart to Lauren's struggle.

You didn't miss much by just watching their date. 

I agree that they left that chat with the producer in there for a reason. More than ever we are being beaten over the head with her fear of not opening up  enough and that he will pick someone else.

Arie really did open up to her during that date. I wonder how that ex feels with something so personal being revealed on national television? I wouldn't be happy since I'm sure trolls could easily find our who she was and drag her into something she didn't ask for. I wonder if we will now see her getting interviewed?

Based on everything I've seen so far, that seemed the most intimate date. Also very romantic with the dancing at the end of the episode. My only quibble is with the fact that despite the sharing of personal, intimate life details and the dancing finish, much of the rest of it was so awkward. They were both so stiff and the conversations was either non existent or very stilted. 

I love your breakdown of this date. It did have the feel of an F1 date, but it also didn't. And that is my whole issue. During it she was being shown as F1 and F2...which all leads me to think that we are on the right path with our Mesnick theory. What is she is this years Molly? The one he was supposed to pick based on connection, but for whatever reason doesn't. Now I would throw in the possibility that it is her boyfriend that comes back and throws a spanner in the works. Does she take him back leaving Arie to make due? But that doesn't make sense to me since she is the one who keeps harping on Arie picking someone else and if she rejected the boyfriend, then she would be available for him to pick, so does he pick someone else and then changes his mind...like Jason? I think that would make the most sense. But then whose boyfriend comes back? I can't see it being Kendall since she said she never had a serious relationship. I don't remember, what did Becca say about past relationships?

You noticed the focus on Becca during this episode...re picking someone else. That would tie in with what I have been seeing....Becca as F1, but not because I see that much of a connection between the two, but because for one reason or another, I have eliminated everyone else....including Lauren. So if Arie picks Becca, but regrets it and then does a Mesnick and goes back to Lauren that would actually work well with the edit....including Becca's pristine edit setting her up for the Bette. Wow. Am I still loopy or does that actually make sense? Now I am really tempted to go spoil myself and see what they have.

I think this has some real merit. Molly & Jason were shown as being stiff as well, but they were actually building a more intimate relationship while his relationship with Melissa was mostly based on Mesnick's lust & Melissa having stars in her eyes. I always saw what was brewing with Molly & Jason as a more mature relationship, even though it wasn't as warm and fuzzy as he & Melissa's. Jason & Molly were shown doing a lot of talking about the future as well...re: in Seattle he pulled her aside for extra SQT to walk the streets and have more serious conversation.

During ep. 3 RC, after Lauren had her first kiss with Arie then went on to receive her rose, camera panned to Becca. Ep. 4 RC brought out Becca's insecurity as her name was called after Lauren's and Kendall's...she told Arie she was "sweating" as she received her rose....then to Arie during bowling date "Give me a quick hug" and then before Arie brought her to his room she said she was nervous. So I can see Becca really pouring her heart out at the end, while Lauren is still terrified of expressing her feelings and then the ex drama, etc.

As far as Arie's stiff-ness & awkwardness with Lauren? Maybe this is an indication of who he is really falling for. Maybe there is a comfortable silence between them? Maybe she is the calm in the storm. It may not translate very well for our television viewing pleasure, but it could translate very well IRL, imo.

agentcurls wrote:

Sprite wrote:

veg_out wrote:Let me preface this post by saying that I only watched Lauren's date and then the end. They played the romantic music over their date. It felt like Arie was actually revealing himself to Lauren, which we haven't seen a lot of with other women, except maybe Beks. As time's gone on with Bekah, it seems like the lustre has worn off.

The very telling part of this episode: the post-RC segment. It's rare that the show concludes with us seeing the behind the scenes. So why did they leave in there for the audience Lauren's very obvious frustration at the other women's reactions to Tuscany? Why did they let us hear her talking about her fears? We see her say, "I also am terrified that he's going to pick someone else," and then it cuts to Becca holding and smelling her rose. They did that with JoJo, too, but to a lesser degree. Either way, their date had an F1 quality to it, but then we have this elaborate BTS convo and it feels like she's F2. But if she's F2, why do we need that extensive insight into her feelings?

Anyway, Lauren is a big figure in the end of this thing, I suspect now, as well as Becca after that BTS segment. I have to watch again to see if Kendall, Sienne, Tia, or Bekah could be the counterpart to Lauren's struggle.

You didn't miss much by just watching their date. 

I agree that they left that chat with the producer in there for a reason. More than ever we are being beaten over the head with her fear of not opening up  enough and that he will pick someone else.

Arie really did open up to her during that date. I wonder how that ex feels with something so personal being revealed on national television? I wouldn't be happy since I'm sure trolls could easily find our who she was and drag her into something she didn't ask for. I wonder if we will now see her getting interviewed?

Based on everything I've seen so far, that seemed the most intimate date. Also very romantic with the dancing at the end of the episode. My only quibble is with the fact that despite the sharing of personal, intimate life details and the dancing finish, much of the rest of it was so awkward. They were both so stiff and the conversations was either non existent or very stilted. 

I love your breakdown of this date. It did have the feel of an F1 date, but it also didn't. And that is my whole issue. During it she was being shown as F1 and F2...which all leads me to think that we are on the right path with our Mesnick theory. What is she is this years Molly? The one he was supposed to pick based on connection, but for whatever reason doesn't. Now I would throw in the possibility that it is her boyfriend that comes back and throws a spanner in the works. Does she take him back leaving Arie to make due? But that doesn't make sense to me since she is the one who keeps harping on Arie picking someone else and if she rejected the boyfriend, then she would be available for him to pick, so does he pick someone else and then changes his mind...like Jason? I think that would make the most sense. But then whose boyfriend comes back? I can't see it being Kendall since she said she never had a serious relationship. I don't remember, what did Becca say about past relationships?

You noticed the focus on Becca during this episode...re picking someone else. That would tie in with what I have been seeing....Becca as F1, but not because I see that much of a connection between the two, but because for one reason or another, I have eliminated everyone else....including Lauren. So if Arie picks Becca, but regrets it and then does a Mesnick and goes back to Lauren that would actually work well with the edit....including Becca's pristine edit setting her up for the Bette. Wow. Am I still loopy or does that actually make sense? Now I am really tempted to go spoil myself and see what they have.

I think this has some real merit. Molly & Jason were shown as being stiff as well, but they were actually building a more intimate relationship while his relationship with Melissa was mostly based on Mesnick's lust & Melissa having stars in her eyes. I always saw what was brewing with Molly & Jason as a more mature relationship, even though it wasn't as warm and fuzzy as he & Melissa's. Jason & Molly were shown doing a lot of talking about the future as well...re: in Seattle he pulled her aside for extra SQT to walk the streets and have more serious conversation.

During ep. 3 RC, after Lauren had her first kiss with Arie then went on to receive her rose, camera panned to Becca. Ep. 4 RC brought out Becca's insecurity as her name was called after Lauren's and Kendall's...she told Arie she was "sweating" as she received her rose....then to Arie during bowling date "Give me a quick hug" and then before Arie brought her to his room she said she was nervous. So I can see Becca really pouring her heart out at the end, while Lauren is still terrified of expressing her feelings and then the ex drama, etc.

As far as Arie's stiff-ness & awkwardness with Lauren? Maybe this is an indication of who he is really falling for. Maybe there is a comfortable silence between them? Maybe she is the calm in the storm. It may not translate very well for our television viewing pleasure, but it could translate very well IRL, imo.

Honestly I don't see the stiffness and awkwardness as an indication of who he is falling for. It did not look like a comfortable silence. If I remember correctly, they both separately mentioned how uncomfortable it was, so I don't see it like that. Now, they certainly could be having better conversations where they are building a relationship and naturally, tptb aren't showing those because they think the audience finds that kind of stuff dull and boring....and would of course show a relationship developing which they don't want us to know.

I get the comparison with Jason/Molly/Melissa. I was the most interested in Jillian that season and didn't warm up to Molly since she was portrayed as somewhat stiff and prissy. On the other hand, I really didn't like Melisssa. She was just too perky and "on" all the time. She just seemed fake to me, but I didn't really care since Jason was a bore. The thing with that season, I could see that Jason was in lust with Melissa...the hot cheerleader he could never have in real life back in the day. I'm not seeing the same thing here this season. Arie can...and I'm pretty sure has...had have plenty of women. I don't exactly see him lusting after Becca with stars in his eyes and she seems pretty normal and not trying too hard to win his attention. Maybe now that Krystal is gone and we are almost to HTDs, we will get a better idea of the dynamics between Lauren, Arie and Becca? I can dream.

I don't know what it is with Lauren....is she naturally very reserved, uncomfortable in front of the cameras, fearful of being shown in an unflattering manner on tv....but to me she looks miserable most of the time...like she is sucking a lemon. Naturally, maybe that is all editors are choosing to show us, but still.

I have to admit I was really surprised that Arie decided to share the miscarriage story. If I remember correctly, he dated that woman before Emily's season. Did he share that with Em? Did we know about the miscarriage? I can't remember. Either way, I don't know about things translating to real life. I don't see a Molly and Jason ending here no matter who he ends up with. I guess he could prove me wrong, but I won't hold my breath.

And, Arie, in every episode, has said that he's focused on life after the show; that he needs to make sure that the two worlds mesh.

Either we keep hearing this emphasis because it becomes Arie's main rationale for his final choice or something hit the skids post-show and a breakup is coming. I'm confused at the moment.

My TV only taped the 2 on 1 and date with Jaclyn with the amazing hair. Sounds like i did not miss much with Lauren date. I keep hearing it was bore.

Sprite, i have not seen any sparkle with Lauren and think she is a bit plain compared to other beauties. Arie must LOVE petite blondes if he is okay with awkward conversation. Either that or Lauren's intelligence doesn't intimidate him like half the women he has left.

Gosh, he should just pick the 22 year and ask her to go blonde for him.

MVMom39forever wrote:
Gosh, he should just pick the 22 year and ask her to go blonde for him.

MVM, if you have a chance, check out the Moulin Rouge date--Baby Beks (the 22-yo) dons a blonde wig!

So sorry, but I got accidentally spoiled today. 

I will see you all on the dark side.

Eps 5 & 6 felt like "The Arie and Lauren Show" and that's kind of F2-ish, imo.

Were also getting knocked over the head with Lauren's hesitation to open up. We heard in Ep 2 RC SQT, Ep 4 SQT, Ep 5 SQT, & 1:1 Ep 6. Then we got a bigger glimpse into her inner battle in an off-the-cuff conversation left in the edit at the end of RC toast.  This seems a little more than a conflict Arie can solve but maybe? Or are we seeing possible justification for him cutting her loose at the end.

Q?- didn't watch Farmer Chris, but why did he and Becca part ways? I keep hearing he really wanted her and chose Whitney by default. Maybe that's what happens with Arie & Lauren? He seems REALLY into her. He told her on 1:1 that he loved "this" and loved "that' about her. Plus, he mentioned some very personal things to her.

Then there's Baby B, who Arie seemed initially very hot for, but you can see him slowly backing away...then there's Kendall...who he has a great relationship with but she was on that 2:1 which no F1 has ever been on. So that leaves Becca K. She doesn't seem as invested as Lauren and Arie doesn't seem as invested in her, while he is pursuing Lauren, atm. Becca K is the enigma for me right now because she is getting the next Bachelorette edit and has no conflict to be solved as of yet.

@Sprite, we'll miss you.

@agentcurls, re. Farmer: Chris started out very very VERY into Britt (who went on to be the other Bachelorette with Kaitlyn) until mid-season when Becca came onto the scene hard. Chris fell in love with her and kept trying to get a gauge on her feelings for him. Becca was very guarded and affirming towards Chris but "couldn't fall in love." Their LCD he really pressed her to tell him if she saw a future--very much like Rachel with Peter K. She basically told him that she didn't know what would happen after the show and that she didn't feel like she was in love...YET. It was compelling TV.

The edit will likely straighten out soon since I think that Arie is taking the path of many Bachelors before him: playing the field and then zeroing in (except Ben Higgins who was torn until LCD). The turn in episode 5 after Bekah's reveal signaled to me that something shifted for Arie since he basically started turning away from his original interests--Bekah M, Krystal, Chelsea--and started moving towards Kendall and Lauren. Becca K. has always been in the background somewhere.

@agentscurls did a good job of laying out the ways that Arie's time with Becca K. showed her requesting his attention and affection rather than him chasing, like with Lauren. In the last episode, when they were at the Moulin Rouge, I did see a quick moment of him standing next to Becca and looking at her with Baby Beks on his other side. That night, no airing of their 1:1 time.

At this point, I'm asking, "What relationships are building?" "What are the conflicts?" "Who has a conflict that Arie resolves?" "Who resolves Arie's conflict?"

Unlike Becca on Farmer's season, I do think that Lauren is falling for Arie and could fall in love with him if they allow them time together. If his big thing is making sure that post-show lives mesh, I have a sense that they'd overcome those hurdles. It's just weird because Lauren keeps harping on her fear of him picking someone else. When I put those two together, for Arie to pick Lauren as his F1, he'd have to see that their lives line up after the show. But, Lauren's focus isn't even on her own problem--it's about him with someone else. For Lauren's conflict technically to resolve, Arie would have to pick the wrong person, meaning she wouldn't be his F1. He wouldn't necessarily need to pull a Mesnick; for his conflict to resolve, he'd just need to realize after the fact that the person he chose was wrong for him and didn't align with his life.

That last part is the reason that I think that Arie could be alone now.

Quick question: Does anyone know when Jason broke up with Melissa? Second, did the edit change any? I remember Molly being worried he'd make a mistake.

^Thanks for that explanation @veg_out. I like your thoughts here.

Molly started emerging around Seattle time, when Jason wittled it down to his Top 6.  He took Molly for extra SQT to walk the streets and talk for hours. Their HTD highlighted how similar Jolly was. FDs demonstrated Molly being less guarded and showing more passion. I think Jason got tripped up because he felt inferior to Melissa and because she was a lot more warm and fuzzy with his son during that LCD. Molly told Jason on her way out " I think you are making a huge mistake." So ep 7-10, yes I think TP were trying to show us why Jolly ended up together in the end.

Maybe these older Bachelors (Brad, Arie) are more comfortable in their own skin to face backlash post-show with a no pick or quick break-up rather than putting on a charade for 7- months.

After Becca's and Lauren's second 1:1s in Tuscany, it should say a lot more. I think it's pretty significant that Lauren has two back-to-back 1:1s.

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