BACHELOR 22 - Arie Luyendyk Jr General Discussion - **NO SPOILERS** - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION

As others have said, Arie is a hard read! We are all seeing different dynamics play out, but I hope you will stick it out here in the unspoiled threads because I'm curious about your input! @Sprite @grace8136 @veg_out @MVMom39forever @aviej

Re: intro videos - I think this might be a random thing tptb switch up season to season, much like "first one out of the limo" but, maybe there is a small pattern...

Jake Pavelka - Vienna did have an intro vid (limo order?)
Brad 2.0 - don't know
Ben F - Courtney? dont know
Sean - Cat didn't have one (also, what was her limo entrance order?)
JuanP - Nikki? don't know
Farmer Chris - Whitney? don't know
Ben Higgy - Lauren B had an intro vid & was first one out of limo
Nick - Vanessa had an intro vid (limo order?)

Based on the intro tapes we have Tia, Maquel, Nysha, Kendall, Marikh and Bekah getting intros. Based on those, I believe Tia, Kendall and Bekah are those to watch. Also think Chelsea makes it far as well as Sienne.

agentcurls wrote:@Sprite - It's true I haven't seen some of the other Bachelor seasons (I skipped Dr Travis, PrinceLo, Brad 2.0, Ben F, Farmer Chris, & JuanP, but I think Arie is being quite affectionate physically and giving them more eye contact than some of the other leads I've seen. Also, Arie is older and has probably had his share of beautiful women and so he is maybe a little jaded and waiting for someone to knock his socks off before he gets overly excited or eager over some of these ladies.

Maybe there were no clear F4-6 night one because this season is more like Sean's (late bloomer slow-burn) or maybe Arie is more savvy about acting and playing it out to keep the audience guessing. This season preview didn't tell us quite as much as season previews of seasons past. imo

Oh he's horny all right, but that is it. The eye contact for me is his attempt at appearing sincere to the ladies. Not working so much for me.

IMO it doesn't matter if this is a slow burn or not. I had non spoiled friends pick out 5 out of Sean's top 6 from the M&G...including Catherine. This season they were all over the place and couldn't come to a consensus. After watching a few episodes they still aren't sure if he is really interested in anyone although they think he is hot for baby Becca and Chelsea...even though they don't think he will pick either of them. They though Krystal was up there for a while, but now they think he is losing interest in her too because of all the drama.

agentcurls wrote:As others have said, Arie is a hard read! We are all seeing different dynamics play out, but I hope you will stick it out here in the unspoiled threads because I'm curious about your input! @Sprite @grace8136 @veg_out @MVMom39forever @aviej

Re: intro videos - I think this might be a random thing tptb switch up season to season, much like "first one out of the limo"  but, maybe there is a small pattern...

Jake Pavelka - Vienna did have an intro vid (limo order?)
Brad 2.0 - don't know
Ben F - Courtney? dont know
Sean - Cat didn't have one (also, what was her limo entrance order?)
JuanP - Nikki? don't know
Farmer Chris - Whitney? don't know
Ben Higgy - Lauren B had an intro vid & was first one out of limo
Nick - Vanessa had an intro vid (limo order?)

For Brad 2.0, I think Emily was maybe last ? out of limo and Courtney was somewhere in the middle maybe. I remember that both of their intros highlighted that the lead was interested in them. I could probably confirm that info later.

From the sounds of it, we might want to pay attention to Sean's season as a reference. It sounds like a frontrunner hasn't quite emerged yet though Arie's connected with some women. Cat, though present, didn't emerge until mid-to-late season, kinda out of the blue. IIRC, many thought that Sean wasn't into anyone except maybe Ashlee until that snow date.

More later after I've watched!

veg_out wrote:

agentcurls wrote:As others have said, Arie is a hard read! We are all seeing different dynamics play out, but I hope you will stick it out here in the unspoiled threads because I'm curious about your input! @Sprite @grace8136 @veg_out @MVMom39forever @aviej

Re: intro videos - I think this might be a random thing tptb switch up season to season, much like "first one out of the limo"  but, maybe there is a small pattern...

Jake Pavelka - Vienna did have an intro vid (limo order?)
Brad 2.0 - don't know
Ben F - Courtney? dont know
Sean - Cat didn't have one (also, what was her limo entrance order?)
JuanP - Nikki? don't know
Farmer Chris - Whitney? don't know
Ben Higgy - Lauren B had an intro vid & was first one out of limo
Nick - Vanessa had an intro vid (limo order?)

For Brad 2.0, I think Emily was maybe last ? out of limo and Courtney was somewhere in the middle maybe. I remember that both of their intros highlighted that the lead was interested in them. I could probably confirm that info later.

From the sounds of it, we might want to pay attention to Sean's season as a reference. It sounds like a frontrunner hasn't quite emerged yet though Arie's connected with some women. Cat, though present, didn't emerge until mid-to-late season, kinda out of the blue. IIRC, many thought that Sean wasn't into anyone except maybe Ashlee until that snow date.

More later after I've watched!

What was it about their intros that you could tell would pique the lead's interest?

The slow-burn could be: Lauren, Kendall, Seinne, or even Becca because they haven't been very hot & heavy yet
I currently see him having more physical chemistry with: Bekah, Chelsea, & Tia, and Kendall actually

I sincerely hope we don't have another Vienna or Courtney situation on our hands.

@agentcurls When I watch the intros...and I like having an unspoiled male friend with me particularly if I am spoiled because I always wonder if that might be influencing what I see....it is their reaction when someone comes out of the limo and their reaction when they are going back in the mansion. Do they say anything as the person is heading in? Do they turn around and watch them go? Do they smile? It is amazingly correct for me.

Whether I am spoiled or unspoiled, I use the above technique and write down my first impressions on who I thought the lead was interested in. After watching the whole episode, my friends and I compare our top 6. Surprisingly enough, usually we have exactly the same list...maybe one variation at most. Based on that, we also try to pick an F1. Sometimes it is easier than others and this is something that we can adjust as the season progresses if necessary....but we are surprisingly accurate.

I think the reason this works is that usually this is the most unedited portion of the show. We get the leads first impression of the cast and that is basically a physical reaction. We have been told for years that the lead picks their F4 that night and so they basically pick on how attracted they are to the cast. After that, the editing comes into play. They ramp up the drama and then as the season progresses, they try to hide the F1 by building up the interest and attraction to the runner up. This is when people usually start changing their minds on who he picks and in the past, before I was so aware of all the editing tricks, I would even start questioning myself. Eventually I have learned to stick with the first instincts, it rarely fails me.

I also want to say, that on Sean's season, Catherine was in our top 6 from the get go. When she first gave him that little note with her lips on it...pulled out from her stockings and said it wasn't appropriate to kiss in front of the other women and he took her to the front of the mansion and they had their first kiss...she went right to the top of the list. That was early in the season since they were still at the mansion. Everything he did after that, only solidified her. To me, even though he always says he didn't know until late whether he was going to pick, his head may not have known...but his body and heart did. If he watched it back, he would have seen how different he was with her versus the others who were his top picks...sparkling Tiarra, the organizer and Lyndsay.

As @Sprite has mentioned, Leads also tend to react, or TP show us their reactions to the F4-6 during limo entrances.

Chelsea - "Wow"  when she stepped out/"She's interesting"
Kendall - "She was so nervous"
Seinne "She's so beautiful"
Tia - "I like her"
Krystal - "(inhales sharply) I needed that"
Jenna - "She is so pretty. Whew, oh my gosh."
Becca - "That was a first for me."
Lauren S. _"She is so beautiful. Wow"
Bekah - "She is so beautiful"
Lauren - "You look amazing. I love this dress" (no reaction after)

So most of these girls will have had at least 1:1 date, with exception of Jenna possibly. For Lauren S, it did not pan out.

agentcurls wrote:As @Sprite has mentioned, Leads also tend to react, or TP show us their reactions to the F4-6 during limo entrances.

Chelsea - "Wow"  when she stepped out/"She's interesting"
Kendall - "She was so nervous"
Seinne "She's so beautiful"
Tia - "I like her"
Krystal - "(inhales sharply) I needed that"
Jenna - "She is so pretty. Whew, oh my gosh."
Becca - "That was a first for me."
Bekah - "She is so beautiful"
Lauren - "You look amazing. I love this dress" (no reaction after)

Thanks for the reminder. As I said above, that is usually the purest reaction and usually I am able to pick the front runners and even the F1 sometimes, but with Arie it was more difficult. He had a physical reaction to quite a few, but none of them had a really "wow" reaction that other leads have had.

I'll have to go back to see who I listed as a possible top 6. I think I had Chelsea, Krystal and the two Beccas.

EDIT...So I went back and I had written that I really didn't see any big connections but thought the above would go far for various reasons. Krystal and Chelsea for the drama but not winners. I also had Tia up there and Kendall but not as winners. The only one that I thought could possibly be F1 was Becca...not the baby one...and that was only because of how she was edited and from the previews...not because I saw any particularly great attraction.

Watching the show since then hasn't really made me change my mind on anything. I still don't think he is really into anyone and don't see this ending very successfully. That said, I would now maybe add Lauren to the mix of possible top contenders. Mostly because I can now distinguish her better from the pack of blondes.

The strongest reactions were actually Jenna, Chelsea, & Krystal, where Arie had to catch his breath.

agentcurls wrote:The strongest reactions were actually Jenna, Chelsea, & Krystal, where Arie had to catch his breath.

Could be. I just watched the M&G that first time when it aired, but for whatever reason, at the time, I discounted Jenna and knew Chelsea and Krystal were the villains/drama and while possibly going far, were not going to be F1.

This is why I just go based on my initial quick reaction. Watching back multiple times, just starts me second guessing myself and I start trying to remember why I thought what I thought at the time and in this case, I'm just not into it enough to remember or care.

After reading back my thoughts from that first night, I didn't really see Arie into anyone. Based purely on my first impression maybe I should have said he picks nobody, but I doubt the producers would have let him do that...particularly as they have tried to beat us over the head with how ready he is for marriage and kids...so I'll stick with what I wrote then. Fake ending, quick break up.

I don't really see Chelsea as too much a villain so I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up being F1. There have certainly been more villainous F1s. I will need to see more of them at this point even though Arie had a strong first impression out of the limo and they shared a kiss that first night. One thing that makes me doubt she is F1 is how much screen time she got night one. Her edit seemed more F2 to me.

Becca has had the best edit so far and while I think Arie is attracted to her, I just don't see "it" with them. She could be the lovable F3 and possible next Bachelorette.

Then Bekah, who made a strong first impression, and who the others & Arie are doubting it will work because of the age difference, but he can't get enough of her physically & mentally and  "just can't let her go" so far.

Which leaves Krystal (is she the next Vienna? Courtney? Will she redeem herself? Or will he send her packing before HTDs?)

Will someone new emerge into the F4 that Arie or any of us didn't anticipate?

Are TP knocking us over the head with the whole "Arie is ready to be a husband and father" business because he does actually pick Bekah? Is the "she's so young" edit a red herring? Or a distraction from the true F1? Does he cut Bekah lose but she's the only one he fell for so then he goes with a default/fake pick only to
break up 7 months later?  

Where my head is:

F1 - Bekah -OR- a slow-burn that emerges in Europe (Lauren, Kendall, Seinne, Jacqueline) Something tells me that the ex arrival during FRC time is an ex of one of these, in which case it will ruffle some feathers, but Arie will get the girl in the end, whether ex is coming for Arie's intended F1 or F2
I will have to see more of Arie with Chelsea, Becca, & Tia to see if they have a chance to overtake Bekah
F2- Chelsea or one of the slow-burn candidates
F3 - Becca or "
F4 - Tia or "

Re; M&G
It was more like The Chelsea Show than The Arie Show so it's no wonder we didn't get an initial good read on him. On that note, when Bekah came into the room to let the girls know who got FIR, camera panned to Kendall right after she said Chelsea's name.  In the past, camera pans for reactions have met someone in F4.
When Nick's Rachel got FIR, camera pans to Vanessa. When Higgy picked up FIR & walked out of her room, camera panned to Lauren. fyi
Also, left in the edit  Kendall said "This world we live in is definitely one where if you can find love on Tinder & dating apps, you can definitely find love on tv."  Also left in: "Everyone wants to be that girl Arie gets down on one knee for" after his Becca introduction.
Also, when others were asking, Kendall said "I think Chelsea went twice, ya know, the girl who went first?" So she was observant & TP kept that in there.
This was the Chelsea Show; how people responded to Chelsea (Krystal, Tia, Kendall) & how Chelsea responded to her competition. It reminded me of Ben Higgy's Olivia.

When was the last time FIR=FR (Melissa R.?) I think it's uncommon for Bachelor leads to choose FIRs as F1