Re: Peter Kraus - Bachelorette 13 - Discussion - #9

by bleuberry Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:55 am

I get why Bryan's go to answer is to say it's frustrating Peter can't be as open and sure as me, because maybe digging deep and being honest might be too hard. Or he really didn't feel anything other than superiority. Weird answers but whatevs. JMO.

by nikikass Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:02 pm

To me Peter is a person that has to subtly throw in an insult while saying a positive.

I know people like him and they really think they are being clever. (but its really a sign of insecurity) IMO.

Part of me wants him to be the bach and part of me does not because they will be cruel to him and I am kind of done with that.

by Aria Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:02 pm

They all just need to shut up and stop talking about the other (or liking comments about or subtweeting about or sending their best friend out to do their dirty work or passive aggressive hashtags or whatever). They're all in their 30s and act like they're in high school. Embarrassing AF. Just relax and if you're right, time will prove it. IMO.

by Rolly Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:07 pm

sdmom wrote:so I'd like to know, if saying the other guy wish-washy is a shade, what is the nice, classy way to answer the "how do you feel " question ?
It's not snarky, I seriously want to know.

For the record, I think all are moving on, and that's great. I wish all three the best and shill all they want, take all opportunities coming their ways.

"I knew what I wanted with Rachel and told her. I was direct with my feelings and was ready to propose. I think I was the best fit for her". "It was hard for me to watch her date and have feelings for other guys".

You see I think Peter could have also said the same sentence except he was not ready to propose. I think Peter knew how he felt and what he wanted.... he had fallen love, he wanted to continue his relationship with her, he saw a future with her, he didn't want to lose her BUT wasn't ready to propose.i don't see that as wish washy.JMO.

by Murakamee Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:07 pm

Billysmom wrote:I think in the eyes of many peter is in the same damned if you do, damned if you don't position that those fans claim brachel is in. Would people really have been content to hear him say "I'm just not into Rachel" ? I can just imagine what he would have heard in response, about feeling he's too good for her, etc etc. (I know I'm not taking very well some of what I'm hearing along similar lines on Matty's season....) I think peter tried to make it work with her, within the constraints of his own experience, the show format, and Rachel's obvious attention towards bryan. And I am not being swayed by his looks because, to be perfectly honest, his gap drives.me.to.distraction. The alternative was that he could've started to propose to her even if he didn't want to....and ended up being resentful, like Ben f., that his first proposal had been wasted on her, or resented that she had pushed him faster than he was really ready to go. I'm kinda hoping if he's chosen for TB that he goes into it like its tb Australia, though I suspect tptb's will certainly pressure him to propose....putting him in yet another no-win situation, cause proposing will have critics calling him a hypocrite and not proposing will have them calling him a commitment phobe. As I think mindless said above, there are so many shades between the two extremes. Rachel is being given a pass for the fine distinction between loving and being in love (one which i understand but which I think would completely go over the head of most suitors during emotional conversations) but peter is not being given a pass for being able to look ahead towards the future without being ready to put a ring on it after two months or so. This is all so exhausting. They don't belong together, I totally agree, and peter has not handled things perfectly, but boy, Rachel IMHO clearly.has.done.her.share.of.damage, and is no more entitled to play the victim card than IMO is peter.

I guess I get defensive of him because I moved slowly in my own relationship, and I guess with 20-20 hindsight I really did not fully appreciate how patient and loving my DH was at the time. I too started thinking about a future with him after our first date, but would never ever have accepted a proposal after the amount of time these contestants do. Fwiw, I do believe Rachel loves bryan and vice versa, but i think she may well have had in the back of her mind that they'd be foolish to turn up their noses at a $100k rock.... I mean, she is nothing if not practical (she reminds me in that way of my hubby's ex gf who sat him down to discuss their salaries and how well they could make out if they joined forces - this after a month of dating....funny thing is, she was a lawyer too.....maybe they offer a course in financial planning in law school?) all just my opinion....likely not a popular one, sorry....

It was not about the ring. It was about the action. The proposal is part symbolic, but most important, it is an act that says, I want you, I'm in love with you, you are the one for me, and I intend to marry you at some point. Peter was saying I envision this with you, you are the correct person, I see a future with you - he was saying all those things, but he was also saying, I need to be certain you are the one - which negates everything he said before. It was an ongoing ping-pong game of affirmations and negations. That would be confusing to any reasonable person. Like he's talking out both sides of his mouth.

Words without action are meaningless.

Rachel made it clear to him, over and over again: I just want someone who wants what I want, and wants that with me. It's simple. Peter might have wanted those same things, but he obviously did not want them at that time, with her. He said as much in his post-show interview and I suspect that he knew she wasn't the one way before that dramatic break up. Yes, she could have sent him home back in Geneva, but he gave her just enough to keep him there in the moment. Just enough mixed signals and double talk to keep her off balance in regard to his true intentions. Like so many everyday people caught up in relationships like that, she did not have the hindsight to see it for what it was. "I keep looking for clarity but I'm just not getting it."

When she watched the episodes back after they left Spain, I'm sure those realizations hit hard. Seeing and reliving it again during the live show, knowing what she knows now, knowing how it was framed, had to be at best, frustrating.

by **GuardianAngel** Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:10 pm

Someone CMIW because I didn't listen to every single interview, but Bryan did not say Peter was manipulative in the vids I watched. He is asked directly how it was for him watching, and he says the same thing every time. His relationship was effortless, they always had a good time, it was easy to love her, vs seeing Rachel hurt and upset with a relationship that was wishy washy back and forth.

I hope after these media rounds are done, if any further questions are asked about the show, they both say it's in the past, and they are enjoying their life. I understand focusing on the show, however it should be about the couple more times than not IMHO.

I don't see what's wrong with any contestant, Shawn, Nick, JP being confident in who they want and going after the girl. Peter wasn't that guy, nothing wrong it it but don't play games which IMHO he did all season long.

It was refreshing to watch a couple of interviews where the question wasn't asked at all.

by sdmom Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:15 pm

I think no matter what each of them says or does, it will not please everyone and there will be criticism. It's still just a few days after ATFR, i hope in a few days, all will focus on the present, the future.
Again, best wish for all.

by sdmom Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:17 pm

@GuardianAngel not Bryan, maybe Rachel.

by Murakamee Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:18 pm

mindless wrote:Well I for one think calling someone wishy-washy because they didn't feel ready to propose marriage after a few dates a bit unkind. It's great that Bryan falls in love quick and was ready to put a ring on it straight out of the limo, but not everyone is so lucky. It doesn't mean they're trying to intentionally confuse people or play games. Feelings can be confusing. Not that I even found Peter's stance confusing in the least, but obviously I don't expect Rachel to settle for less than she wants, so it ended as it should. I still think Rachel was the one making things confusing rather than Peter, but that's JMO.

IMO, considering the way Peter talked about Bryan to his face and behind his back, and considering what he saw of Peter's torturous indecisiveness in regard to Rachel, the term, wishy-washy is beyond gracious. Bryan was asked a question and he answered it to the best of his ability, with as much respect as anyone in his position could. But again, that's JMO.

by Aria Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:19 pm

Yeah, I don't think Bryan ever used the word manipulative. This is from yahoo.com.

I never needed her to cry for me to validate her feelings for me. It was smooth sailing from night one, as you saw. And just to watch that over with Peter, it was just frustrating to see her go through that, exactly what she was talking about, that push and pull. You have someone that, in me, was totally forthright from day one, totally invested, totally committed, and then on the other hand, you have this person who goes back and forth, wishy washy, doesn't really know what he wants," he said. "It was tough to watch as a man."

I think Bryan has actually been the most mature and least petty (compare him to Josh and Shawn at this time), but I just think it's best for them to all to stay quiet. Every single word is ripped apart and used to attack them and I just don't think that negativity helps them. IMO.

by Cocoasneeze Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:20 pm

Rolly wrote:
GuardianAngel wrote:Too add to that, Bryan also said when they were together there were no tears no arguments, it was effortless to love her, vs crying disagreements etc. That is what his frustration was. He speaks about the relationship, and not the person directly.

He has been very clear and concise in explaining what he felt. The only comment he made about the guys is "its always difficult to see your fiancé dating 30 guys" which always brings in laughter, in a jokingly manner because since when does your fiancé date 30 guys.

Relationships are hard. I didn't see the struggle Rachel and Peter had as a bad thing. They struggled and got to the point that they realized they were in different places. I saw more loving, tender, romantic moments between them than struggle.JMO. Of course Bryan's relationship with Rachel was effortless, he was all in night one, saw her as his girlfriend and was falling in love on their first date and was telling Rachel everything she wanted to hear. All in, no questions, no conflict is not reality.JMO. I'd like to have a heart to heart with him in 6 months.

I don't think a relationship needs to be a struggle in the beginning. To me, when 2 people can't compromise on anything during the first two months, it's just not right. Neither Rachel or Peter were willing to move an inch from their perspective. Jmo

by sdmom Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:29 pm

Aria wrote:Yeah, I don't think Bryan ever used the word manipulative. This is from yahoo.com.

I never needed her to cry for me to validate her feelings for me. It was smooth sailing from night one, as you saw. And just to watch that over with Peter, it was just frustrating to see her go through that, exactly what she was talking about, that push and pull. You have someone that, in me, was totally forthright from day one, totally invested, totally committed, and then on the other hand, you have this person who goes back and forth, wishy washy, doesn't really know what he wants," he said. "It was tough to watch as a man."

I think Bryan has actually been the most mature and least petty (compare him to Josh and Shawn at this time), but I just think it's best for them to all to stay quiet. Every single word is ripped apart and used to attack them and I just don't think that negativity helps them. IMO.

I think his answer is more about Rachel, about how she was being treated, how she felt, that frustrated him to see, especially compared to how effortless his own relationship with her. I feel he wanted to protect her from all the hurt. Granted, I am a fan so I am biased.
I agree it's best for them to be quiet, but Otoh, whatever they say will be criticized by non fans, so why not just be honest and say what's on your mind? IMO.

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