Peter Kraus - Bachelorette 13 - Discussion - #9

Cocoasneeze wrote:

Rolly wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:Too add to that, Bryan also said when they were together there were no tears no arguments, it was effortless to love her, vs crying disagreements etc. That is what his frustration was. He speaks about the relationship, and not the person directly.

He has been very clear and concise in explaining what he felt. The only comment he made about the guys is "its always difficult to see your fiancé dating 30 guys" which always brings in laughter, in a jokingly manner because since when does your fiancé date 30 guys.

Relationships are hard. I didn't see the struggle Rachel and Peter had as a bad thing. They struggled and got to the point that they realized they were in different places. I saw more loving, tender, romantic moments between them than struggle.JMO. Of course Bryan's relationship with Rachel was effortless, he was all in night one, saw her as his girlfriend and was falling in love on their first date and was telling Rachel everything she wanted to hear. All in, no questions, no conflict is not reality.JMO. I'd like to have a heart to heart with him in 6 months.

I don't think a relationship needs to be a struggle in the beginning. To me, when 2 people can't compromise on anything during the first two months, it's just not right. Neither Rachel or Peter were willing to move an inch from their perspective. Jmo

IA. But most relationships don't start off with "you MUST propose to me in 8 weeks, but not even 8 full weeks, 8 weeks where we get very limited time together, while also watching me date 29 other men, and while you must propose to me, there's no guarantee that I reciprocate your feelings"

ReneeM wrote:

Cocoasneeze wrote:

Rolly wrote:

Relationships are hard. I didn't see the struggle Rachel and Peter had as a bad thing. They struggled and got to the point that they realized they were in different places. I saw more loving, tender, romantic moments between them than struggle.JMO. Of course Bryan's relationship with Rachel was effortless, he was all in night one, saw her as his girlfriend and was falling in love on their first date and was telling Rachel everything she wanted to hear. All in, no questions, no conflict is not reality.JMO. I'd like to have a heart to heart with him in 6 months.

I don't think a relationship needs to be a struggle in the beginning. To me, when 2 people can't compromise on anything during the first two months, it's just not right. Neither Rachel or Peter were willing to move an inch from their perspective. Jmo

IA. But most relationships don't start off with "you MUST propose to me in 8 weeks, but not even 8 full weeks, 8 weeks where we get very limited time together, while also watching me date 29 other men, and while you must propose to me, there's no guarantee that I reciprocate your feelings"

Very true. But when they sign on to this show, that's the format, it's no secret, then they agree to that format. And if Peter signs the dotted line twice, he must really agree with it.

Peter and Rachel were just not compatible in any way and form. Imo had they met off the show, it would've still been a struggle, because they don't meet each others basic needs at all. Jmo

Rolly wrote:

umngirl wrote:He's been nicer about Bryan than Rachel has been about him. Her pettiness has been 100.

I'd love to know if Peter ever liked any comments that were only negative about Bryan. If he was just liking things that were positive about him but then also had a negative thought about Bryan then the argument could be made he was only "liking" the portion about himself. I may like comments that I don't agree with the entire comment.

IMO, he's been good publicly since the show ended. Maybe Big Rach should take lessons. JMO

  I don't follow SM as closely as some but I can't think of one direct post or thing he has said negative about Rachel or Bryan. I like things all the time where I agree with part of what's said or as a way to say thank you for something said that's complimentary.

Not to mention often I don't even read a whole post if it is on the longer side...nor do I dissect it to death worrying if in some way it might offend someone else. And I don't even have that many posts to go through. He is probably being tagged all over the place.

The show is over. Everyone seems happy. Time to move on and enjoy their lives.

Cocoasneeze wrote:

ReneeM wrote:

Cocoasneeze wrote:

I don't think a relationship needs to be a struggle in the beginning. To me, when 2 people can't compromise on anything during the first two months, it's just not right. Neither Rachel or Peter were willing to move an inch from their perspective. Jmo

IA. But most relationships don't start off with "you MUST propose to me in 8 weeks, but not even 8 full weeks, 8 weeks where we get very limited time together, while also watching me date 29 other men, and while you must propose to me, there's no guarantee that I reciprocate your feelings"

Very true. But when they sign on to this show, that's the format, it's no secret, then they agree to that format. And if Peter signs the dotted line twice, he must really agree with it.

Peter and Rachel were just not compatible in any way and form. Imo had they met off the show, it would've still been a struggle, because they don't meet each others basic needs at all. Jmo

This is just my opinion. Peter would not have gone on a second date with Rachel in real life, unless she flat out pursued him and then I think he might have hit it and quit it, since he was on tinder.

BTW, neither Rachel or Bryan called Peter manipulative, members here have. Bryan said wish washy and that he did not need tears from Rachel to feel validated. Rachel has continually talked about the push and pull.

And most people are upset to cause someone else to cry, Peter's own words were that Rachel's tears validated his feelings. That my friends is a red flag statement to me.

I actually think Rachel did say she felt peter was either manipulating or manipulative.... Wish I could recall which interview.

Murakamee wrote:*snip*

It was not about the ring. It was about the action. The proposal is part symbolic, but most important, it is an act that says, I want you, I'm in love with you, you are the one for me, and I intend to marry you at some point. Peter was saying I envision this with you, you are the correct person, I see a future with you - he was saying all those things, but he was also saying, I need to be certain you are the one - which negates everything he said before. It was an ongoing ping-pong game of affirmations and negations. That would be confusing to any reasonable person. Like he's talking out both sides of his mouth.

*snip*

I couldn't disagree more. Maybe in a real life long-term relationship that would be confusing, and Rachel clearly felt triggered because of past experiences. However, on this show they only have 48-72 hours with each other before a proposal. No one can be 100% sure someone is the one for them after so little time. They can have a strong hunch and sometimes it turns out to be right, but every lead Rachel included has acknowledged that there is a leap of faith involved. IMO Peter just didn't want his one and hopefully only time proposing to involve a leap of faith, even though he could see Rachel potentially being the one. I'm sure it didn't help that there was a 50% chance she'd be taking that leap of faith with someone else. I don't find that confusing or unreasonable personally, but Rachel is obviously allowed to want more. If she thinks that ring on her finger provides more certainty then that is her prerogative. We've seen a lot of them returned though. Hopefully not in her case. JMO.

I'm not saying that Peter can't legitimately be a commitment phone, but nothing I saw on the show is proof of that for me. He's probably fallen quickly before IRL and it didn't work out, so he's less likely to jump in head first again. Been there done that. This show really messes with our expectations IMO. There are always contestants around who'd marry the lead out of the limo, so anyone going at a real life pace seems like a weird time-waster in comparison.

Cocoasneeze wrote:

Rolly wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:Too add to that, Bryan also said when they were together there were no tears no arguments, it was effortless to love her, vs crying disagreements etc. That is what his frustration was. He speaks about the relationship, and not the person directly.

He has been very clear and concise in explaining what he felt. The only comment he made about the guys is "its always difficult to see your fiancé dating 30 guys" which always brings in laughter, in a jokingly manner because since when does your fiancé date 30 guys.

Relationships are hard. I didn't see the struggle Rachel and Peter had as a bad thing. They struggled and got to the point that they realized they were in different places. I saw more loving, tender, romantic moments between them than struggle.JMO. Of course Bryan's relationship with Rachel was effortless, he was all in night one, saw her as his girlfriend and was falling in love on their first date and was telling Rachel everything she wanted to hear. All in, no questions, no conflict is not reality.JMO. I'd like to have a heart to heart with him in 6 months.

I don't think a relationship needs to be a struggle in the beginning. To me, when 2 people can't compromise on anything during the first two months, it's just not right. Neither Rachel or Peter were willing to move an inch from their perspective. Jmo

Except Peter did finally offer to propose if that formality was the one thing standing between them. They just both agreed that it wouldn't be sincere enough. So IMO Peter did move as far as it was humanly possible for him without deceiving anyone, it just wasn't far enough.

stuckinsc wrote:

And most people are upset to cause someone else to cry, Peter's own words were that Rachel's tears validated his feelings. That my friends is a red flag statement to me.

I've got 3 red flags or wtf moments from him. The crying validating his feelings. The mediocre life and eyelashes on the floor for 2 days. Those things have raised my suspicious eyebrows very high. Jmo

stuckinsc wrote:

Cocoasneeze wrote:

ReneeM wrote:
IA. But most relationships don't start off with "you MUST propose to me in 8 weeks, but not even 8 full weeks, 8 weeks where we get very limited time together, while also watching me date 29 other men, and while you must propose to me, there's no guarantee that I reciprocate your feelings"

Very true. But when they sign on to this show, that's the format, it's no secret, then they agree to that format. And if Peter signs the dotted line twice, he must really agree with it.

Peter and Rachel were just not compatible in any way and form. Imo had they met off the show, it would've still been a struggle, because they don't meet each others basic needs at all. Jmo

This is just my opinion. Peter would not have gone on a second date with Rachel in real life, unless she flat out pursued him and then I think he might have hit it and quit it, since he was on tinder.

BTW, neither Rachel or Bryan called Peter manipulative, members here have. Bryan said wish washy and that he did not need tears from Rachel to feel validated. Rachel has continually talked about the push and pull.

And most people are upset to cause someone else to cry, Peter's own words were that Rachel's tears validated his feelings. That my friends is a red flag statement to me.

Amen to the bolded! ITA. To me, both the story of his ex and that comment about Rachel's tears validating his feelings were signs that this guy doesn't know how to be in touch with his own feelings in a healthy way and it is only through drama/trauma/dysfunction/angst that he can feel something on a deeper level. I saw virtually NO emotion from this man EXCEPT when talking about the 2 women's tears. Red flag. IMO.

Billysmom wrote:I actually think Rachel did say she felt peter was either manipulating or manipulative....  Wish I could recall which interview.

Yes she did.  She called him manipulative and said she felt he was stringing her along and not being forthcoming.  It was in the ET interview.

http://www.etonline.com/tv/223296_exclusive_bachelorette_rachel_lindsay_calls_peter_manipulative_reveals_who_should_be_bachelor_instead/?cid=stp_tmz

And it baffles me because a) he was very upfront with her (even with the men) about his thoughts on proposing and b) that she supposedly KNEW that Bryan was the one and therefore her pushing, coaxing and trying to get him comfortable enough in their relationship to have him propose to her was in my opinion a true manipulation and really stringing him along.  Peter was trying to get there with her while she was just trying to get to the end so she could choose Bryan.

Cocoasneeze wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

And most people are upset to cause someone else to cry, Peter's own words were that Rachel's tears validated his feelings. That my friends is a red flag statement to me.

I've got 3 red flags or wtf moments from him. The crying validating his feelings. The mediocre life and eyelashes on the floor for 2 days. Those things have raised my suspicious eyebrows very high. Jmo

Don't even get me started on those eyelashes!

To be fair, as the lead, Rachel HAD TO lead men on. She couldn't simply pick Bryan after the meet the parents date, and call it a day. She has to have men left until there are the two or three men left in the end. Rachel felt that Peter was giving her enough to keep him there, but then pulled away, until giving her some more. Imo she's perfectly fine and within her rights to feel this way, even if some viewers don't agree. I saw the push and pull too. To her it felt manipulative, and she's right to feel that way too, IMO.

I can't touch the eyelash comment! If you were in Peter's shoes, are you going to stop and pick them up and revisit those emotions. No, he shouldn't have said it outloud. As far as the crying validating his feelings...I can see it another way. Bryan was so different than Peter. Bryan is a bit much to take when your personality is on the opposite end of the spectrum. Peter had seen Rachel interact with Bryan from the get go. If I were Peter, I wouldn't get it either...not even a smidge. For better or worse, Peter just couldn't let go and reach the point he could commit to an engagement with Rachel. So when he's the opposite of Bryan, I think he's saying the tears do tell she cares for me regardless of how different I am from that guy. He was frustrated when he said go have a mediocre life. In that moment, he meant it but that's emotion getting the best of you. Lawdy, I'm glad I'm not judged when I'm frustrated as hell. I would have to shut down my social media.