Ben Higgins - Bachelor 20 - Discussion

stuckinsc wrote:She was unable to move forward and kept making him pay for the same transgression. She needed to chose to movement forward letting it go or leave him.

stuckinsc wrote:She did not let it go, but IMO caused a first fracture in their relationship.

Can you elaborate on the bolded above? I didn't catch too much of HEA so just curious. And just to clarify, I was not blaming Ben for anything in my earlier post, just empathizing with how Lauren must've felt with the dual ILYs, JoJo's season and the postponement on HEA. Obviously I'm projecting here because I don't know Lauren personally - just assuming that she was pretty beat-up by it all -- as I know I would've been. I get that Ben's ILYs were about him but IMO there was a lack of recognition on his part of just how much that would impact his relationship with Lauren and her confidence in that relationship.

And I do agree, that canceling the wedding was absolutely, 100% for the best.

North wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:She was unable to move forward and kept making him pay for the same transgression. She needed to chose to movement forward letting it go or leave him.

stuckinsc wrote:She did not let it go, but IMO caused a first fracture in their relationship.

Can you elaborate on the bolded above? I didn't catch too much of HEA so just curious.  And just to clarify, I was not blaming Ben for anything in my earlier post, just empathizing with how Lauren must've felt with the dual ILYs, JoJo's season and the postponement on HEA. Obviously I'm projecting here because I don't know Lauren personally - just assuming that she was pretty beat-up by it all -- as I know I would've been. I get that Ben's ILYs were about him but IMO there was a lack of recognition on his part of just how much that would impact his relationship with Lauren and her confidence in that relationship.  

And I do agree, that canceling the wedding was absolutely, 100% for the best.

I agree that the two ILYs were rough, but they said he confessed immediately I believe and apologized. I respected him for owning the two ILYs and not claiming he made a mistake. IMO, he had fallen in love with both, he had good relationships with both. He chose Lauren and after November he
made it clear to her she was the one. At AFTR, he made it clear he lived Lauren and chose her. I took the second proposal to be him giving her her romantic proposal when she was clearly and truly his only one. But I find the
Proposal immediately after dumping F2 tacky. Even if the lead hasn't said two ILYs, you just broke up with someone else. That is the least appropriate or romantic time to propose IMO.

Lauren discussed repeatedly how hard moving on from the two ILYs was. It was his right, but IMO it was a first clue these two
Weren't going to work out. Ben tried to give her the support she needed from that and it wasn't enough. She had the right to be upset, but to me it showed they weren't compatible. Months after the ILYs she was still upset. Clearly, their relationship did not help her feel truly loved. I just can't blame Ben for that. Rather to me it showed they were not meant to be. He gave what he could, it wasn't enough for her. Neither were wrong, but it was a big red flag they were not right for each other.

I am a big believer that most relationships end because of both people. Ben and Lauren are both decent, good people. They just didn't have what it took the help each other to feel their happiest.

Sadly, in real life a guy would never propose to a woman right after breaking up with another. To me they should say ILY and agree to date at FRC. Perhaps Lauren would have felt less betrayed and hurt if her fiancé had not said ILY to someone else the day he asked her to marry him, but I blame the show for
That not
Ben.

IMO

Where Ben went wrong with the two ILYs (outside of doing it to begin with, imo)... was not just taking ownership and apologizing for the hurt he caused. Cause no, never once did he say, at least publicly, that he was sorry for the hurt it caused Lauren and even JoJo. Nope. It was all about Ben and how he (explicitly) couldn't say he was sorry, cause that was his journey and how it "spit him out to Lauren." So I empathetically disagree. He was pretty flip (again, at least publicly) about how his actions affected others "that he loved" on his duplicate journey.

I also thinks Lauren did well to get past that, and think dual iLY was small potatoes and exaggerated on HEA compared to Ben 1. Wanting to do HEA knowing the premise. 2. Agreeing to a wedding, setting a date and letting Lauren's head go to that space,  and 3. Canceling the wedding, for the world to see, the way he did it.  Handled sooooo freaking poorly. And that right there was I think the largest betrayal to Lauren. Way more detrimental to their relationship than telling JoJo he loved her (repeatedly and excessively) back in the bubble.

sosleepy wrote:Where Ben went wrong with the two ILYs (outside of doing it to begin with, imo)... was not just taking ownership and apologizing for the hurt he caused. Cause no, never once did he say, at least publicly, that he was sorry for the hurt it caused Lauren and even JoJo. Nope. It was all about Ben and how he (explicitly) couldn't say he was sorry, cause that was his journey and how it "spit him out to Lauren." So I empathetically disagree. He was pretty flip (again, at least publicly) about how his actions affected others "that he loved" on his duplicate journey.

I also thinks Lauren did well to get past that, and think dual iLY was small potatoes and exaggerated on HEA compared to Ben 1. Wanting to do HEA knowing the premise. 2. Agreeing to a wedding, setting a date and letting Lauren's head go to that space,  and 3. Canceling the wedding, for the world to see, the way he did it.  Handled sooooo freaking poorly. And that right there was I think the largest betrayal to Lauren. Way more detrimental to their relationship than telling JoJo he loved her (repeatedly and excessively) back in the bubble.

Did Ben threaten her in someway to do HEA. He was on board, she needs convincing. That is not forcing. The only thing IMO he did wrong and is his fault is publically postponing the wedding. Do we know for fact he doubted the wedding before they set a date? I don't know. Lauren did HEA of her free will, she is not a victim. All JMO.

stuckinsc wrote:

sosleepy wrote:Where Ben went wrong with the two ILYs (outside of doing it to begin with, imo)... was not just taking ownership and apologizing for the hurt he caused. Cause no, never once did he say, at least publicly, that he was sorry for the hurt it caused Lauren and even JoJo. Nope. It was all about Ben and how he (explicitly) couldn't say he was sorry, cause that was his journey and how it "spit him out to Lauren." So I empathetically disagree. He was pretty flip (again, at least publicly) about how his actions affected others "that he loved" on his duplicate journey.

I also thinks Lauren did well to get past that, and think dual iLY was small potatoes and exaggerated on HEA compared to Ben 1. Wanting to do HEA knowing the premise. 2. Agreeing to a wedding, setting a date and letting Lauren's head go to that space,  and 3. Canceling the wedding, for the world to see, the way he did it.  Handled sooooo freaking poorly. And that right there was I think the largest betrayal to Lauren. Way more detrimental to their relationship than telling JoJo he loved her (repeatedly and excessively) back in the bubble.

Did Ben threaten her in someway to do HEA. He was on board, she needs convincing. That is not forcing. The only thing IMO he did wrong and is his fault is publically postponing the wedding. Do we know for fact he doubted the wedding before they set a date? I don't know. Lauren did HEA of her free will, she is not a victim. All JMO.

Of course Ben didn't force Lauren to do HEA, and I have never said as much. He didn't force her, obviously, and that's melodramatic and not something I've argued for. They both stated Ben was more on board to begin with and Lauren needed more convincing. Their story, not mine. Absolutely doesn't make Lauren a victim, cause you are are right, she agreed to the show as well. But Ben was an idiot to be so eager to sign on for a show (named Happily Ever After, for goodness sakes) that was clearly meant to document his wedding journey if he didn't feel ready or in that place to, you know, actually marry the girl. And then backing out on a public, national platform like that? Heartless. Cold. Hard pill for Lauren to swallow in private. Caused her to freaking choke with hundreds of thousands of people watching for entertainment purposes.

Who knows what the truth is with happily ever after, at the time, everyone (fans and maybe B/L themselves) thought the backing out was just drama and not real and they were really just doing it for the show. This is probs why it's not a good idea to mess your real life up for a show and fame imo.

@sosleepy I disagree about this idea that Lauren wasn't on board to do HEA. I have listened to every interview they have ever done, and they have both said that they were cautious to do the show for various reasons but in the end agreed that it could be a good opportunity for them. I also thought it could be good for them. It was something they were supposed to be able to do on the side, filming a couple of days a week so it would not interfere with their relationship.  Lauren wanted to launch a blog and Ben was considering getting into politics. The exposure could have benefited them greatly. It seemed like they had more to gain than to lose. They went into the whole thing not really knowing what to expect but both seemed very excited to take the chance.

It is clear now that the show was a mistake. Ben pretty much said so at Nicks premiere party in LA. Neither of them were shown in a positive light and it all came across very manufactured, including the wedding and cancellation, which was put back "on" during the finale. However, what wasn't manufactured was the pushback that both Ben and Lauren received from doing the show. The amount of negativity both received after was something I'm sure neither expected and, imo, that crisiticm is was caused turmoil in their relationship.

Yes @hae1001 and @Alanna hindsight is always 20/20 and very clear to all - not just the skeptics and detractors - that doing that show was a HORRIBLE decision. Who knows if it caused their relationship breakdown, or if that was inevitable anyway. No one will ever know. But it didn't help either person, individually or as a couple in any way.

When they left The Bachelor all giddy and high and "ready to get married tomorrow," Des wrote them a letter of advice. She told them to go back to their jobs, their normal life, integrate each other into their every day lives. Retreat. Retreat. Retreat. For the first few months, I really felt they were doing just that. Then they stopped listening and started going more showbiz than even Sean and Cat. And that was the end. They should have listened to Des if their priority was ever really each other, which I guess, who knows... maybe it never was.

I never watched HEA. With that said, I did listen to a podcast, WYATR, and 1) they hated it and stopped watching 2) everyone thought Lauren hated Ben 3) it was the worse show ever. And I kinda agree. Toothpaste in oreos, not funny, not real. IMO these two made a huge mistake 1) watching Ben's season 2) being idiots enough to do HEA 3) watching that show too. Don't watch!! IMO they're both narcissists and good thing they split. Sorry guys, I'm moody and Lauren's whole IG shtick today rubbed me the wrong way. I don't why I follow her. So vapid! IMO Ben wasted a good 3 years on this show.

To me, the double ILY and the unapologetic way Ben handled it afterwards are still his biggest faults.

Vanessa said something along the lines of “I’m not comfortable with a proposal if I’m just slightly better than the other woman”, which is more than fair IMO. She didn’t have to worry about that since Nick’s mind was made up a long time ago IMO, but for Lauren that would ALWAYS be a concern as long as she was with Ben.

Ben violated the rules and let JoJo believe she was the one for the better part of a week, and he told her right before the FS. Come to think of it, what better way to get laid could there be?
All JMO.

But on the other hand, the premise of the show is that there are multiple relationships and feelings for several people, usually. It is not normal but it is the show after all. Catherine said something about Sean not really being "hers" until the finale so that was how she was able to tolerate the multiple relationships. I think Ben tends to be somewhat clouded with his emotions and I bet TPTB maximized his weakness, took it and ran. That is why I don't really blame him for the multiple ILYs- I believe him. I only watched clips of HEA and that was more than enough for me. My co-worker never liked Lauren while the show was airing (we sit sit by side all day so we have time to discuss it at length) and I didn't see what she saw, but I do now. I think it is obvious by now that HEA was a big mistake, at least to me. But it also shows me the immature, vapid nature of Lauren- at least in my opinion.

Guys, it's begun!

Ben Higgins is back on the market, and he's already going out with another "Bachelor" hottie ... but it's not what you think.
Ben went to a Bryan Adams concert Saturday night at the Greek Theater in L.A. with none other than "Bachelor" alum Ashley Iaconetti. She was on Chris Soules' season right before Ben's ... famous for her celibacy.
Eyewitnesses tell us Ben and Ashley were definitely there together, and seemed pretty friendly ... sans PDA, though. We're told they were chatting it up, just not exclusively.
Sources close to Ben cleared up the confusion pretty easily ... they're just friends. The 2 "Bachelor" stars are launching a radio podcast together this week, and went to the concert together with other folks from iHeart Radio. They've also been promoting their new gig ... so it makes sense they'd be hanging out.
As we reported ... Ben and his ex-fiance, Lauren Bushnell, officially called it quits last week.
As for Ben and Ashley ... it's strictly business.

Source

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