Bachelorette 13 - Rachel Lindsay - Episodes - Discussion - **NO SPOILERS** - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION

Rachel'S blog wrote:The next day I got to take Peter on my very first one-on-one date! Peter struck me as a man who is incredibly down to earth … especially for being so handsome. The way his hands were shaking when he first met me the first night was so endearing. Our conversations and romantic moments flowed with an ease that was completely different than any other relationship I’ve had before. I couldn’t help but tease him about this date actually being a two-on-one and I knew if we were going to work I had to introduce him to the other man in life. He seemed a little confused and nervous until my dog Copper jumped out of his chauffeured car and ran up the tarmac into the private jet.

Peter seemed to win over Copper just as fast as he won me over. Among all the doggy fun Peter did something off camera that made me cry tears of happiness. Without telling me or anyone else he snuck away from the date to give a homeless man his sandwich. Take the rose Peter, it’s all yours. The fireworks were going off in my heart long before the real ones shot off into the desert night sky.  

source here

can this be any clearer? On top of being hidden.

So my question is again: episode 4 and still no bryan as I/we think it is dean next. so bryan would have to be switzerland in episode 5.

but it is not 5 weeks, more like 3 weeks as each episode takes 4 days right? Still a long time for a guy that put his tongue down her throat the first day they met imo

Mods please: do we have another teaser please?

The more I am thinking and the more I think Bryan is edited the same way Jordan/jojo was. Something he said with the conversation with Eric: She has no problem to open up with me. Yet we saw nothing of that. We saw no conversation, we saw 2 quick hot kisses with her and still no date.

Something is also bothering me. During the Ellen show, Rachel said: there was one kiss and it took me per surprise. Why did she say that unless she has Bryan in mind and when we saw her kissing Will and Peter. Especially Peter during their date. I cannot say it was a surprise with the fireworks since she pushed her body to him to be kissed. And I know this happened after Will and Peter because they confirmed they kissed her. Peter even played coy when they lined up. May I say I did not like Bryan confirming he did? That was pissing to mark his territory again. What was the point to tell he was the one?

So she could have said, she had several and they were all good but she mentioned the memorable one who took her per surprise knowing full well that 3 of the guys were listening. Or did she?

And that is the main difference I see between Dean and Bryan and Dean. Bryan is the one who kiss her versus she is the one kissing Dean and Peter.

I think rachel is a very sexual woman. This is also why she was attracted to Nick IMO. Rachel definitely explore the physical connection with kisses with all the guys she is attracted to.

Dean is adorable and all that but I really do not see him F1. I am not sure who is F4 yet. Could be Will since we saw him in Copenhagen.

Bryan is either F3 or F1. There is no other possibility in my mind. F3 edited for next bachelor
Dean is either F2 or F3. But I need to see their 1-1 to decide. Good chances to be next bachelor (reminds me of bachelor Aussie Richie, lovable, awkward, cute)
Peter is either F1 or F2 if Bryan is F1. No next bachelor gig for him. Too stiff in front of cameras IMO

I am still thinking that the first 1-1 never was the F1. And this bothers me. Most were F4 F3. But I do not see Peter F3 F4. Unless I am all wrong and the one they want next bachelor is Peter???

Her body language confuses me but I have little material to compare with bryan so far and after 3 episodes, still no 1-1 even if he had the FIR and the set up romantic place to kiss her a la Jordan...

Why would the prods favor Bryan in that. How did they know that bryan would kiss her. Because I am 99.99% convinced that the romantic place did not come out of nowhere and bryan did not look for it all evening for it. Bryan may have asked the prods if there was a romantic place but this means that bryan was planning to kiss her even though he hardly talked to her?? So this does not bode well in my book. So what, he wanted to gain points and be the front runner no matter what?

The only good point I see with Bryan is that he is not a drama queen. Nor Peter. Nor Dean. Out of the 3, I think Bryan is the most handsome and more charming. But I fear charming in front of cameras. Is he a player?

Peter on the other hand bother me because I see him way too reserved body language wise. Even when she is on top of him kissing, he is under her. She is on top. I see a slow gentleman not at ease in front of the cameras, a bit stiff and not demonstrating his emotions. And that what tickles me. Rachel is very demonstrative regarding physical attraction and she is a sensual woman. I do not think she would be happy with a guy who is too reserved (Peter) or too shy (Dean). She said it a couple of time that she needs a man not a boy. Peter is man. Bryan is man. Dean is a boy.

So here we go again, between Bryan and Peter. Because at this point, I see no other guys going all the way. Everyone else comes F3 F4 etc.

I need more material to sleugh darn it!!!!

It's been a slow, stingy week in regards to new stuff.  There isn't a new episode until June 19th, so hopefully we get some previews mid to late week.

@HEA, the edit has worried me for some time regarding Bryan and Peter. In my mind right now and since Epi 1, those are the only two legitimate contenders for F1. There just hasn't been enough of Bryan to contrast and compare. IMO, what has been shown of Bryan has been a slant towards the negative (I guess different people see it in different ways). Everything that has been shown does remind me of JoJo/Jordan, in many ways and you can't help but compare the two seasons. Peter's edit reminds me so much of Luke in many ways. Perfect date, incredible chemistry, Rachel has nothing but glowing things to say about him, seemingly perfect on paper.

The way they edit is both aggravating and brilliant. They show us only tidbits of the ending romance and manipulate to point the attention somewhere other than the ending relationship.

Another part of the their brilliance (and let's face it, they have been major successful for a long time now) is editing where what is said can be taken different ways. You mentioned the "it took me by surprise comment". That could be interpreted as she wasn't expecting the kiss and it took her by surprise, or that comment could have been edited and the end of her statement removed, that the kiss itself was so good and it took her by surprise because she wasn't expecting that. Which could have been directed toward Bryan or Peter at that point.

Their job is to keep us guessing until the very end. If unspoiled, they do a pretty good job of doing that. Part of that is making us like one guy more than the other. That also helps in building a fan base for the next lead. They had been going with F3 for the next lead for a while, but then they broke that mold, and went the F2, JoJo, over the F3 Caila. Then, they switched gears and pulled Nick out of thin air or recent appearance on BIP, I guess I should say, over F4, Luke, So, I guess what I'm saying, is that we can't maintain that they have a formula and stick to it.

@Ladybug82 so another week waiting? Thanks for sharing. I do not read the TV synopsis at all in fear to be spoiled.

@moonchild So you think Rachel was edited with Ellen when she said that it took her per surprise? I would think the prods have no control on that? Heck! I do not even know if it is a live show or not.

But yes. I agree that it is a Peter/Rachel/Bryan show outside the stupid drama. At least we got rid of waboom and blake. Now I hope to get rid of lee soon. Eric sadly was sleughed to stay up to Denmark but hopefully the drama will go once lee the bully and Iggy the fame seeker will leave. But I must say that hearing Eric until Denmark is going to be very very long

@moonchild it is interesting that you make a comparison between Luke and Peter. You are right that Jojo had nothing but good things to say about Luke in her blogs and on the edited screen. No secret I loved Luke but it makes me laugh how much I change my mind each time the show is over. I still like him and find him very smart to use the prods to continue to boost his singing career by going in BIP. Good for him. The last minute no go was definitely a no go and I would have been pissed off like him for sure. But then I would never accepted or asked them? to go to BIP after that. Luke is a smart cookie and know that going back to BIP will increase the numbers on his Instagram etc. Good for him.... but he is no different than any of the contestant looking for fame and try to get something out of the franchise.

So me wondering, what Peter and Bryan want out of this franchise. One is a chero and the other a business man. Do we know what kind of business BTW? Did he say anything about it? And chero, maybe he wants to go in LA and gain a new line of expensive customers? I am biased, of course. Maybe they are both genuine. It happened after all to find good guys among the bad seeds. cough cough JP/Ashley

Going back to Spain. I check the temperatures in march in Northern Spain and they are rainy and not that hot. So definitely not the summer top (when she says she is falling in love) and the pink dress in the vineyard although it is possible to have nice days, most would be chilly imo. So is it possible that the summer top with the purple PI is something that was taped in SC instead of Spain or why not after show in LA? I have a hard time to wrap my mind that they were in Spain for F5 RC, go back all around USA for hometown, back to LA for the F4 RC and bam take the plain back to Spain again for F3, unless they would move to another sunny place for F1F2 to Tenerife in the Canarias (part of Spain, islands in front of Marocco so pretty hot temps).     I am very confused here

@HEA, I have no idea what motivates some of these people to do this show and BIP afterwards, knowing quite well how this franchise works. Is Luke a definite for BIP? I hadn't seen that. I did like him on JoJo's season. I would not blame him at all if he uses it to boost his music career, which seems to be his focus.

Luke was edited to be one dimensional, as military hero with a backstory that the franchise loved exploiting. We got to see very little of him other than that, the "passion that is Luke". Peter is being edited in a similar manner as being "perfect for Rachel". We have gotten to see a little bit of Peter's humor and fun side, but very little. Another similar comparison is that Luke held back a long time to declare and show his feelings for JoJo and Peter seems to be doing the same thing with Rachel. She had to initiate the kiss with Peter.

@moonchild I am not sure about Luke. I saw his name around the time Rachel was announced I think? Along with Raven and co. I do not blame him to use the franchise. He has nothing to loose and I think he is a smart cookie. I remember seeing a very low numbers on his Instagram and that changed when he became favorite for a lot of fans. I liked him a lot even if retrospectively I think he talked a lot and did not realized he was played by jojo but that is the nature of the beast to be played in this show.

And I agree about the one dimensional. And this bring me to the same thought that they do the same with Bryan and Peter and most of the contestants. Maybe Peter is the next bachelor after all. He is definitely edited as perfect on paper, I agree.

So maybe then we have a repeat of jojo season, minus jordan's baggages of exes and dating sites? I must say that the way they edited jordan as the anti hero was IMO some kind of revenge from their part. I am not sure what really happened with Fleiss and co but something was not right.

So is Peter groomed for the next Bachelor gig? I would think Dean would be more available but I am not sure if out there he is well loved. I think Bryan and Peter are more mature and more appealing for women. The reaction at Ellen said it all: Bryan is definitely appealing to the woman eh? Maybe they associate Bryan as their boyfriend romance who is often aggressive and sensual? Peter on the other hand is edited (maybe he is) as very gentleman, reserved and a thinker. Dean being the playful best friend she could hang out and have fun and be silly with.

Rachel said it at least 3 times that she wants a man. Her reaction with Fred was priceless. And this is maybe a clue here. She wants a man who take charge. I think she is very opinionated and know what she wants to the point that she may be stubborn with her decision like she could not see Fred as the accomplished adult he is today. (I hope Fred will find his princess BTW. He is a sweetheart IMO)

@moonchild so you think Peter could be F3 or F4?

You can be right. I see the analogy between Luke and Peter. I still see Peter as F1 or F2. I do not see him next bachelor material. He misses some outgoing personality but this is also very soon. I only saw him during his 1-1 and Ellen.

Talking about Ellen... they also decided to put Bryan top center when they were playing I have never have... Peter was behind. I find that interesting they wanted to hide Peter and promote Bryan. It can goes both way again: promote bryan a la jordan or they can hide Peter. But truly, even though she kissed 3 of the 6 present guys, she mentioned only the one "who took her per surprise". If she was focused on Peter already, then I would imagine she would have mentioned something about it instead? So why didn't she?

@moonchild Truth is that the no date for Bryan when we clearly see the physical connection and the FIR and the first kiss and obviously the conversation they have (Bryan: she has no problem to open up with me), and the PI they keep showing us during each episode is fishy for me.

On the other hand, Peter is also hiden IMO. Outside the 1-1, we did not see him much so far. However, they made sure to show that he could be a good dad for copper. Maybe I want him more aggressive with Rachel for me to believe he is truly into her as she is into him? At first, I thought it was a heck of a kiss when she was on top of him. Then I am thinking that her legs on top of Bryan show a level of couple intimacy. Rachel on top showed SHE is and Peter has no choice in the matter. Of course we saw each only few seconds.

If only the prods decided to edit and SHOW US 2 or 3 parallel love stories instead of the bullcrap.

Moonchild, I agree with you that only Peter and Bryan seem like legitimate F1 contenders at this point in time. I keep telling myself that it's early days yet. But realistically Rachel will likely need to see her F1 within the next 2 or 3 one-on-ones at the latest. I'm guessing that she will want two or more one-on-ones with her probable F1 before she goes to hometowns. Bryan will likely get one of the next few one-on-ones, so that leaves maybe two slots open for another potential F1 at best.

It's also a bit early to be honing in on the next Bachelor. I like Peter, but if he is her F1, then I don't see another good candidate on the horizon. I'm not mad about the thought of Bryan being the Bachelor at the present time. That could leave things wide open for a candidate coming out of BiP.

@HEA and @Amethyst  thanks for hanging in there.  It's really tough when we are not even getting previews and have little else to go on.

I only see F3 right now, Bryan, Peter and Dean (not necessarily in that order).  I don't know who the 4th much less the F6 would be at this point.  I liked DeMario initially and fell for his smooth talk.  Interesting at this point, that I didn't fall for the Bryan smooth talk at all.  Peter had me at "hello".  Dean has grown on me.  I do like Will, but don't see a lot from R with him.

At first, I thought Bryan was being edited as the physical attraction, or the Luke of this season, but it has worried me that he remains so hidden.  He put himself in the spotlight on the Ellen GD.  Although, I'm sure that TB did it's own taping of the show and could edit as it pleased, it would be pointless if that show had already aired.  Bryan's bold move to grab the mic and posture himself with the other men, didn't help his cause with me.  And, the weird thing is that it would have come out anyway in the "Never Have I" game.  I expected more of a reaction from Bryan when he looked around and saw that Peter had kissed R too during that game. That GD highlighted the contrast between Bryan and Peter.  I find it interesting that she is so attracted to both men even though there are huge differences in them.

Rachel works in a male dominated, cut throat business. Even though she says she wants to be swept off her feet, etc, I think she enjoys the chase. Bryan has as much said, I'm yours for the asking, but Peter is more of a challenge to her. Maybe she flip flops at some point. I can even see her being with one and walking away saying "he's the one", then being with the other and walking away saying "no, he's the one". I am assuming filming had ended before the show started airing, IDK. Would that make a difference in the edit of the first few episodes? Did she flip near the end, I wonder? So many questions!

One thing I have noticed about Peter is that he doesn't like surprises. In situations where he is unsure of what is going to happen, he starts asking questions. Like when they drove up to the airplane on their 1-1, he asked if he was going to be flying this airplane, too. When she asked if her "friend" could come on their date, he asked if it was an ex-boyfriend. At night on their 1-1 she said there was more thing and he asked if they were going to dance some more (why didn't we see them dancing?). I wouldn't call it wanting control, but liking being kept in the loop with no big surprises. Rachel seems to like very much being in control. Does this become a source of conflict for them? We know that the lead and the F1 have some issue they have to overcome before the end. For JoJo, there seemed to be conflict and lack of trust almost from the beginning with Jordan and there was the issue that Luke wouldn't verbalize his feelings that popped up later. Right now everything seems all rosy for Peter and Bryan. So, I guess it will be easy to see when the conflict or issue raises it's ugly head.

Speaking of F4-F6, my first thought was that maybe Kenny might make it into that range. I don't think he's a real contender, but he appears to be a nice guy and fun to be around. I could see Rachel wanting to keep him around for a while. So I went back and looked at the sleuthing (around p. 12-ish.)

What I picked up is, Peter, Bryan, Dean, and Eric appear to make it to Copenhagen (the final destination?) Lee and Jack make it as far as Switzerland. The next few one-on-ones appear to include Dean, Bryan, and Jack. So my thinking is that her probable F1 might be in the cluster that includes Peter, Bryan, Anthony, Dean, or Jack.

We already know that Peter and Bryan are frontrunners (due to Peter's stellar one-on-one and her obvious chemistry with Bryan including the first impression rose.) The two men that go far that I'm really not getting at this point are Dean and Eric. Dean seems to be a good guy, but he is young in both years and outlook -- more Mr. Okay for Right Now as opposed to Mr. Right. Eric seems to me to have personality issues.

The two guys who are question marks for me are Anthony and especially, Jack. I think a lot of Anthony, but I just didn't see any spark there on Rachel's end. Jack is starting to intrigue me. I went back and looked at his ABC bio, and really liked it. He seems grounded and normal. Right now, he just might be my dark horse candidate.

@Amethyst  Thank you for mentioning Kenny.  He has been a favorite of mine from the beginning.  I don't have a read on Eric.  A lot of what we see, Rachel doesn't see.  Also, when he is with R they concentrate on the drama.  So, I am waiting to see how he plays out.  I liked Anthony, but I don't think R is that in to him.

Jack has a 1-1 in South Carolina.  I can't remember if there is any evidence of him in Europe.  Dean has a 1-1 (the blimp date) probably SC.  Bryan has a 1-1, I guess in SC.  Getting to Europe, in Denmark we know that there is a group date on the viking ship with Bryan, Peter, Matt, Adam, and Dean.  Eric has a 1-1 and Dean has a 1-1 in Copenhagen.  Will has a 1-1 in Sweden, which I think is a day trip from Copenhagen, JMO.  There is no evidence of any of the others in Sweden.  We think the dangling guy in the red jacket is Alex, so a 1-1?  It is thought that this is in Switzerland.  Peter has a dog sled snow and ice 1-1, thought to be in Switzerland.  Bryan has a 1-1 on the Swiss side of Lake Geneva.  Matt and Adam appear to have a 2-1 on the French side of Lake Geneva.  This all leaves some gaps and hard to even nail down the sequence of their travels once going to Europe.  There is still the monastery that opens the season preview from episode which Sophie says is in the La Rioja Wine Region of northern Spain and the shots of R walking through the vineyard wearing a pink dress, which looks like it is in the same area of Spain, but nothing else to link Spain.  So we don't know when or who.  I'm sure I have forgotten something, but that's what we know to date.

So Peter, Bryan, and Dean all have at least two 1-on-1s. I think that makes them all look good for the top four, with the fourth spot being open -- possibly Eric, Will, Matt, Adam, or ? Dean getting two 1-on-1s, wow. The age/maturity thing must not be throwing her.