Bachelor In Paradise - Season 4 - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

I wonder if we are going to see her new lawyer subpoena RS's sources, this could get interesting

One of the things that blows my mind is that Corinne is using the "defense" that she was drunk to indicate that she was the victim in this matter.

Will this enable others who get drunk to abdicate themselves of any responsibility for their actions whilst drunk? Imagine courts in the future, well "your honor" C was downright drunk when they broke into D's home, and can barely remember what the events of that "day/night" were.

When are people going to start accepting responsibility for their own actions?

I am in no way condoning what happened, however, one of the press articles I read stated that both Corinne and DeMario were shown footage of the incident, at that time it would have been prudent to notify TPTB that she did not have any recall of what happened. Instead it appears that she waited until a "third party" filed legal action to begin any kind of legal proceedings against TPTB.

@gurlbrit I think we have to thread a very fine line when it comes to something like drinking and consent, however. At this moment, we really don't have the full details but my personal moral stance is that just because a victim made the decision to drink above his/her limits does not justify any actions done towards him/her against his/her consent. I think we enter into a very slippery terrain when we start holding victims accountable for sexual assault just based on how much they drank, what they were wearing, whether they were with a group of people or by themselves, etc.

I'm sorry if that's not what you were insinuating in this case and to be honest we don't have enough details to paint the picture as to whether this was the case in this matter but at the same time when I hear things like "When are people going to start accepting responsibility for their own actions?" that is a defense that has been unruly used against victims of sexual assault, and it's never been fair IMHO so I think we should just keep this in mind even if it was not what you were insinuating.

Too little facts IMO
I mean, if all of what was out there were true:
both were very drunk
C sat on D's lap and they began making out
they went to the hot tub  
C took clothes off then asked (?) D to do likewise or D did in own
making out
D sitting pool side naked where naked C then puts crotch in D's face
etc

If all of that were actually true then there were 3 points in the story where the aggressor was C. If the gender was reversed, IMO C would be the  "perpetrator". Should D, the one being advanced upon, have said no?
 If the genders are not reversed, should that change perception?  

No clue what the real facts are. Waiting to see.

@notarose Right, definitely. For now we don't know what the facts are. Nevertheless, I've read some language that is a little bit on the victim-blamey side, though I'm sure most of it is unintentional. I'm only calling to attention that fact that we should all check our assumptions and our preconceived biases in what is, unfortunately, a patriarchal society where something like sexual assault (unlike most other crimes) is often blamed on the victim (most often a woman).

I'm not suggesting that is the case here, as if the situation is played out as you described there, then perhaps Corinne is not merely a helpless, innocent "victim". Given we do not have the facts at the moment, I'm going to give the alleged victim the benefit of the doubt until further information is revealed. Surely it was enough to shut down production, after all.

JMO.

The fact is that drinking too much is going to leave us vulnerable. We shouldn't assume we can get plastered and make it everyone else's responsibility to take care of us, then cry 'foul' if they don't.

We must also consider what @Miahawk posted about being blackout drunk. I saw this many times where my residents didn't remember the night before when we had a conversation and even where they had been. They can say they consent and not remember, so then who is to blame?

This is only my opinion, but once you have a blackout if you continue to drink to excess and repeated blackout that is your choice and no one elses.

I am not for victim blaming at all. A woman should dress, talk, and act however she wants. And a person who is passed out or slurring and obviously not understanding a word, should be left alone. But when you seem lucid enough, when you say yes, then what is the verdict? At some point people need to know themselves and take some responsibility for their own actions. Living life as a sex offender is not easy either, so these things need a lot more discussion.

All this is JMO.

dartbachfan27 wrote:@gurlbrit I think we have to thread a very fine line when it comes to something like drinking and consent, however. At this moment, we really don't have the full details but my personal moral stance is that just because a victim made the decision to drink above his/her limits does not justify any actions done towards him/her against his/her consent. I think we enter into a very slippery terrain when we start holding victims accountable for sexual assault just based on how much they drank, what they were wearing, whether they were with a group of people or by themselves, etc.

I'm sorry if that's not what you were insinuating in this case and to be honest we don't have enough details to paint the picture as to whether this was the case in this matter but at the same time when I hear things like "When are people going to start accepting responsibility for their own actions?" that is a defense that has been unruly used against victims of sexual assault, and it's never been fair IMHO so I think we should just keep this in mind even if it was not what you were insinuating.

Not insinuating at all that we should blame the victim. But it appears both were victims of TPTB machinations. Both were drunk; both were told to hook up. Until either settle or this goes to court, we should give both of them the benefit of the doubt.

Drinking too much is going to leave one vulnerable so people should definitely drink responsibly. No one disagrees with that fact. However, should one happen to get drunk, it does not justify violating them primarily because s/he is vulnerable and is unable to protect him/herself, which happens quite a bit too.

Based on the reporting out there, however, I think Corinne understands the nature of the situation which is why she is suing/blaming production, not DeMario. Someone raised it up earlier but if someone were drunk and about to go hop into a car and drive out, shouldn't/wouldn't production stop them? Or if someone were drunk and started physically hitting another human being. Well, most likely. So why can't the same sentiment be applied here...?

^^ Was it stated that only C was drunk/blackout. Was D drunk as well?

@iamreal2u D said he was too drunk to perform, so he used oral methods.

I see. Thanks.. This is so bad all around...