Bachelor In Paradise - Season 4 - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

Corinne is a slippery slope.
On one hand, you have this wisp of naive female that still has a nanny and calls macaroni and cheese pasta. Then with a flick of a switch before you blink she flips off her bikini top and straddles a man faster than most can say flick your bic.
It does get old and at the same time provides a convenient script for her to play off. So where exactly does it end?
I can actually see why people distance themselves from her drama after awhile. It gets weary.
"I needed a nap" So I didn't go to the RC. "I need my sleep".
"I injured my hand" So I didn't shovel poop at the group date.
(excuse my paraphrase for the above).
Rules apply to most people. When rules routinely don't apply to some, I know I don't want to play or be around those people. Maybe it's just an omen or a bad feeling. IDK. Sooner or later most people learn rules. Corinne has never learned rules or that they apply to her.
However, that does not mean something bad can not happen to her for dancing too close to the flame. I hope not.
My brain tells me the film will tell more and give the benefit of the doubt.
My gut tells me she is doing what Corinne does best.

Kashathediva wrote:Corinne is a slippery slope.
On one hand, you have this wisp of naive female that still has a nanny and calls macaroni and cheese pasta. Then with a flick of a switch before you blink she flips off her bikini top and straddles a man faster than most can say flick your bic.
It does get old and at the same time provides a convenient script for her to play off. So where exactly does it end?
I can actually see why people distance themselves from her drama after awhile. It gets weary.
"I needed a nap" So I didn't go to the RC. "I need my sleep".
"I injured my hand" So I didn't shovel poop at the group date.
(excuse my paraphrase for the above).
Rules apply to most people. When rules routinely don't apply to some, I know I don't want to play or be around those people. Maybe it's just an omen or a bad feeling. IDK. Sooner or later most people learn rules. Corinne has never learned rules or that they apply to her.
However, that does not mean something bad can not happen to her for dancing too close to the flame. I hope not.
My brain tells me the film will tell more and give the benefit of the doubt.
My gut tells me she is doing what Corinne does best.

GREAT post, @Kashathediva.. Spot on...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/06/health/blackouts-drinking-book-sarah-hepola/index.html

This is an informative article about getting blackout drunk and raises some of the questions about consent.

GuardianAngel wrote:

ReneeM wrote:TMZ got Demario out and about http://www.tmz.com/2017/06/13/demario-jackson-talks-about-corinne-sex-bachelor-in-paradise/

This is nuts. He's cool with her but he says:

As we reported, he's insisting she was completely lucid -- and people who've seen the footage agree.

which is opposite to what she claims??

Surely the he-said-she-said discrepancy should be clarified by watching the footage?  I'm baffled why this is all still so wishy washy almost a week after it happened.  To quote Warner Wolf, "Let's go to the videotape!"

This is my take on the Corinne and Demario situation. First of all, the liquor in the house in ridiculous and TPTB are partly responsible for this mess, imho. Then again, the liquor flowing is what makes people act crazy on this show in the first place. I think Corinne is a party girl and was drunk and things escalated and went too far. Was Demario drunk too?

I guess it's true...Karma is a real bitch after all. She played a huge roll among many in BIP it seems, it just began with Corrine/Demario apparently.  I can't keep up with so many pages and so many different articles.

I'm not surprised WB pulled the plug. You can't do an accurate investigation without putting a stop to the whole enchilada so everything stands still. WB said send them home and that's that.

I do have so many questions but I think the biggest one I have is....if Corrine's handler wasn't there, hasn't seen the footage and according to Corrine she was blacked out and had no memory, did they land in Demario's bunk the next morning to figure out their next move according to what he said? Somehow I have a sneaky suspicion, they didn't warm up to his version on rewind.

This makes me wonder where security was,  and why did they keep filming such a thing ? I always thought their handlers and security was always around ..This is shameful for everybody ..

I will add it's also interesting who went home and when before Sunday. We know there were several let go earlier than Sunday. Is that a clue as to who plays a more vital role in the investigation? So many questions but if history repeats, Raven (IMO) provided her version of the details through RS once again.

@Mommyof2 yes he has said he was so drunk he couldn't get it up.

I'm still trying to withhold judgement, but if true that they were still filming two days later, it seems as the whole incident didn't matter too much to Corrine that she isn't the one who reported it. A producer did, and wasn't even there. If Corrine felt violated, she could have reported it then. Yes, TPTB provide all the means necessary for drunken escapades, but there is still personal responsibility. Wasn't it JPG who didn't or hardly drank on his season? That was his choice. I'm sure in all the Bach and Bachette seasons, as well as BIP and Pad, that there have been sexual encounters before, even caught on tape. I would find it very hard to believe this was the first. It doesn't sound as though this was something violent or against her will, etc. as some reports say she was the aggressor. Corrine needs to take some personal responsibility and look at her behavior for her part in this. IMO. The whole thing is a mess and pretty pathetic.

I must admit that I was clueless about the exact nature of being 'blackout drunk'. So I googled it. Above I posted a link to an article on CNN in which the author describes her own experiences. One of the things she says is that you can be engaged in activities and appear that you are totally functional to others, walking, talking, driving, having sex, but that your brain kind of goes offline and stops recording the events. Later your brain comes back online and you have no memory of the events that have taken place. Frightening as hell! IMO.

So, it shows me that she could have been 'fully engaged' (as was the description in one of the eye witness accounts) and still suffer from a blackout of memory of what occurred. Blackout does not equal pass out. She could have been drunk and encouraging, initiating, and actively participating the activities, even though she was technically too drunk to give consent (under a legal standard of being able to give consent).

The entire consent issue is very, very tricky. Consent is not the same as absence of saying NO. Obviously, if she said NO she is NOT consenting. But, just because she did not say NO, does not mean that she DID give consent. The burden for proving that consent was given, as I understand it, is on the man (or other person) if the woman later claims she never gave consent. This is why there recently have been phone apps designed that guys and girls are encouraged to use to document consent. Sounds absurd and certainly not romantic, but this is just a sign of the times in which we are living. IMO.

Alcohol/substance muddies the waters even further by impairing the person's ability to process what is going on and objecting. Yet I ask...how is a partner supposed to know how drunk is too drunk to consent? Nobody has a Breathalyzer in their bedroom. Typically, signatures are not collected and apps are not used, so the partner relies on behavior and cues they are getting, signs that the person is an interested and willing participant. If a woman is throwing herself on top of the man, etc etc, the message she is sending is that she is willing, implying that she is giving consent. If a drunk person (even black out drunk level) is capable of walking, talking, driving, and having sex, they appear functional and therefore may not appear too impaired to be in control of their decisions. How is a partner supposed to know for sure? Especially if he himself has been drinking and his judgment may be impaired as well? The whole thing is very, very risky. IMO.

After reading the article, I was better able to see that the various parties may have interpreted things that were happening differently, and she may have appeared 'fully engaged' and still have no memory of what she did the next day. Again, frightening as hell. IMO.

Don't know if this has been posted but some info from Alexis and Dominique. From Dominique "I literally wasn't there, I didn't see anything happen, at all. I think a lot of it is up to personal interpretation," she explained. "Whoever is making these allegations, I guess interpreted it one way, the parties may interpret it another way, and I think that that is what is really being disputed. So, I literally don't know what's true and what's not true. It kind of went from 0 to a 100 really quickly, and you know, we are all kind of confused." She went on to explain why she doesn't think the show should be canceled.

"For this cycle, I think it's best probably not to [continue filming]. As a series as a whole, I don't think they should cancel it. I think it's a great show. We can all agree 'Bachelor in Paradise' is probably one of the better of the three shows. It's very fun, it's very tongue and cheek," she said. "And it's much more laid back, which obviously can be room to, for things to go awry which can happen in any show. But I don't think they should cancel it. I hope they don't cancel it. It's one of my favorite shows, personally. I'd love to be able to do it next summer if we get a chance to."

From Alexis Alexis also said producers do "look out for us as much as possible" and the cast members themselves all "kinda help each other out" when it comes to getting "too inebriated" while filming.

"We've never been encouraged to do anything that we were not comfortable with. I know that's a rumor but that's not true," she said. "We are all, you know, adults, we're all over the age of 21, whatever we decide to do, you know what I mean like, if we decide to drink, if we decide to hook up, that's completely within our power."

"I've never ever been encouraged to do anything I never wanted to do, you are at liberty to walk away and say no from whatever you want, so I think in this scenario it's very interesting you know to see that this may be called into question but as a cast mate I've never feared, you know, being put in a scenario where I would be taken advantage of," she added.
Alexis also explained that the reaction to this story online has made her "pretty angry," as many of the show's contestants have experienced backlash over their disappointment in production being halted.

"I think we've been sort of accused of a lack of, like, empathy and I think that's been a little unwarranted," she explained. "So I think a lot of us are really upset about the backlash we've received."

"To be honest, I'm kinda angry at fans who have ... I'd rather I would say online trolls who have kinda jumped the gun and assumed that, you know, we as cast mates are lacking empathy for [Corinne]," Alexis explained. "And I think that's not true at all ... a lot of us, unfortunately, are legally bound by our contracts. We're not allowed to say any details. So all we can really say is, you know, it's unfortunate, we're upset that this happened, and that's pretty much that, at liberty, all we're allowed to say."
http://toofab.com/2017/06/13/bachelor-in-paradise-scandal-chris-harrison-former-contestant-speak-out-on-production-shutdown/