Nick Viall - Bachelor 21 - Episode 8 Feb 20 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

Cila51290 wrote:I found it so funny how Nick was so tongue tied with V's family. The salesman in him went out the door. It was easy breezy with the other three women's HTD. He kept talking up a storm. Then V's family comes along and he's so tense and nervous of making a good impression.

All she did was pressure him the whole time beforehand, IMO. Make sure you memorize this list of Italian words.

Maya wrote:I wonder what he was crying about during his covnversation with Vanessa's sister. Wish they would show us more.

I just thought he started crying because her sister was crying and emotional over the idea of Vanessa being hurt.

She's just too much drama. Her mother, her brother, her sister, and her father seemed rather rude. That would probably be the end, if she were not pretty like she is, IMO.

It really is interesting how we all watch the same thing and interpret things differently. I don't know how Vanessa was "so much drama" when all she seemed to do was quietly listen to her family's concerns and be emotional because they were basically throwing cold water on a fantasy she had, by pointing out some real legitimate concerns about any future she could have with Nick. She was hurt finding out he'd ask the other fathers for their daughter's hand in marriage but she didn't bring it up to Nick, saved her emotions for the ITM and again shed some tears while clearly trying to remain restrained.

And as for the family being rude, again, I didn't see that at all. Did the brother even speak to Nick (well I'm sure he did but in terms of what was shown in the episode) because I felt like I only saw his conversation with Vanessa where he, like the rest of the family just seemed to really love his sister and wanted her to not get heartbroken. Yeah the sister told Nick she'd hate him if he broke her sister's heart but frankly she was nowhere as harsh as Ashley's sister was to JP when he met the family and that was right before Ashley had to make her final choice.

I agree that I found the mom a little abrupt when asking Nick what made Vanessa stand out to him because I thought it was clear Nick was just beginning his thought with the first time he saw her and that was not going to be his full answer. But she interrupted him so abruptly that he got flustered and nervous. But other than that, I just thought the family seemed concerned about Vanessa's not being heartbroken and trying to throw some realistic issues/concerns at her and Nick. And to each his own because I freaking loved her father. I just thought the man seemed like he had no time for b.s. and didn't suffer fools easily.

I was listening to a podcast and the person mentioned that Nick said the same thing word for word about Rachel and Vanessa(to her father). I did not believe it so i re-watched and I am telling you it was the same, almost word for word.

I actually find this funny because actually while watching the episode I thought he was far more gushy and swoony talking about Rachel to her mom and it was all perfectly delivered, while with Vanessa he seemed to be stumbling finding a way to explain his feelings for her. I actually chalked it up to more of the misleading edit - everything with Rachel is perfect while Vanessa's HTD is kind of a mess with questions, skepticism by her family, it ends with a sort of awkward hug between them, etc. So I actually think it's funny that he apparently actually said the same thing both times.

All she did was pressure him the whole time beforehand, IMO. Make sure you memorize this list of Italian words.

Considering Nick was looking at Vanessa the whole time she was teaching him the words like he wanted to devour her and couldn't stop touching and messing with her, I didn't get the sense that he was being pressured or felt pressured by anything but that's just my opinion.

Bottom line for me is I trust Nick knows his own heart.

Things that are consistent every season:
at least one villian
a chemistry edit
conflict
repetitive statements
future Bettes trained by the lead
misleading aspects to the edit/choppy
frankenbites
music used to influence viewers
the lead picks whoever they want as F1 and not everyone likes that choice

sosleepy wrote:

Seabear wrote:I appreciate how Nick has handled his eliminations. I think Nick has used compassion and sensitivity by cutting the woman when he knows HIS feelings are NOT going to match theirs. Particularly the women who say they are falling in love when he KNOWS he will not feel the same way. A few of these women seem bitter post show...DLo and Kristina in particular. I think these women should feel thankful Nick saved them from unnecessary heartache. It is Nicks choice to proceed forward on his journey with the women he see's the best possibility with. I give props to Nick for handling himself so kindly in this area. IMO it was clearly Vanessa as Nick's frontrunner from quite early on. That said Nick has feelings for the other 3 ladies...just not...you are the One feelings IMO.
All JMO

So agree. And I think this is exactly why Raven, who I see as MOT and not invested at all goes to the number 2 slot. Nick more than anyone understands the betrayal of F2. He took the girl who could handle it the most to that slot. Anyone super vulnerable (Kristina/Dani) got cut before hometowns. DLo tells Nick she's falling in love, and Nick sends her home immediately so as to not lead her on.

Great posts!!

One of Nick's greatest traits is his ability to empathize, IMO. As much as I can credit this to his experiences being on the show and knowing firsthand how it feels to be hurt, I think it comes down to who he is as a person that he would do as much as he can to not lead anyone on and be honest and compassionate when he lets them go. Nick for sure has his faults and failings but to me he has a really good heart and it has been shown on his season especially when it comes to not wanting to cause more pain for those who he is not as invested in when they are and not dragging them along for more pain and for TV drama. That's the sign of true and caring person, IMO, especially when it comes to this show.

IWouldMarryAshleyI wrote:

Cila51290 wrote:I found it so funny how Nick was so tongue tied with V's family. The salesman in him went out the door. It was easy breezy with the other three women's HTD. He kept talking up a storm. Then V's family comes along and he's so tense and nervous of making a good impression.

All she did was pressure him the whole time beforehand, IMO. Make sure you memorize this list of Italian words.

Have you ever heard of a edit ?? Of course they made Vanessa not look so good but you can tell by her SM she has a wonderful family that Nick would fit in perfect with. He has a large family himself so I think he really liked her family. JMO

lleyki wrote:

All she did was pressure him the whole time beforehand, IMO. Make sure you memorize this list of Italian words.

Considering Nick was looking at Vanessa the whole time she was teaching him the words like he wanted to devour her and couldn't stop touching and messing with her, I didn't get the sense that he was being pressured or felt pressured by anything but that's just my opinion.

Exactly. And I feel quite certain that if she'd actually been trying to teach him a list of Italian words she wouldn't have rattled them off at breakneck speed like she did. I thought it was pretty obvious that they were just playing around.

If Nick came off as confident and smooth with Rachel's family, and nervous and tongue tied with Vanessa's, that's just because he knew so much more was at stake with Vanessa's family. He knows he's sitting with what (he hopes) will be his family. With Rachel, he knows at some point in the near future he's cutting her free - and probably already realized he and the producers were teeing her up for the Ette. Nick's great gift to his friend Rachel. Send her home in the coveted F3 spot. 

Maybe he said similar words about both Rachel and Vanessa. He does have a comfort with both. From my vantage point that comfort with Rachel basically equates to mutual respect, good conversation and friendship. With Vanessa, it definitely feels more intangible/romantic. There is an underlying intangible feeling of being with someone who is meant for you. This is what I think Nick and Vanessa feel together, and what is lacking in his interactions with Rachel.

Okay, I know long posts are discouraged but hear me (or Nick) out. I saw the comment upthread that Nick talking about Rachel was word for word the same as what was said to Vanessa's dad. And I thought my memory was failing me because I couldn't remember such a thing, so I watched parts of the episode again, including the entirety of Rachel's date. Here's what I found:

Lots of great conversations about church and race. But I didn't see any conversations about a possible engagement. Here's the closest I could find:

On Rachel's mother’s question about red flags: Nick’s response included the fact that they communicate really well. He feels like they get each other in a way where they have a lot in common; they can laugh together and give each other a hard time in a playful way. “She’s a big personality but I love that about her.” It's what attracted him the most about her.

Nick’s talk with Vanessa’s dad — Nick says he has tough decisions to make. Vanessa’s dad points out there are three other women. Nick says there’s no denying that but he would never disrespect the people Vanessa cares most about or her. He then says that she is someone very special to him and so if it gets to that point [making a tough decision], if he and Vanessa are two adults who are madly in love with each other decide that they want to take that leap of faith and get engaged, would he have her dad’s blessing. Would he be okay with it if she were happy and she believed it was the right decision to get engaged. V’s dad says he can’t just give his blessing…. Then V’s dad asks him what the ‘blessing’ means to him if he were a father. Nick says he would like to think that it means he’d feel comfortable about the young man making that commitment and honour that commitment to his daughter. He also added that [the hypothetical young man] would respect his daughter and giver her the life he would want for her. “I think the most honest thing I can say to you about this very unique and weird situation is that I will never make a decision with your daughter, especially if it’s to want to be with her in life, if I don’t think it’s right.” Then he says that he respects V that much to not do that. He says it’s real life for him. He cares very much for her. She makes him very happy. Then her dad basically says “sounds good” and that he doesn’t want her to get hurt, and to be happy. Nick said he wants the same thing.

And just for added discussion (the brevity reflects the length of these particular scenes):

Nick asking Raven’s dad — If he and Raven get to the end and they’re two people who can’t say goodbye to each other and want to go a step further and get engaged… then he asks him if he’s comfortable with it as long as his daughter is okay with it.

Nick’s asking Corinne’s dad — If he’s lucky enough to have it all end with someone he is deeply in love with, and if he and Corinne get to the end and they, as a couple, decide to get engaged… then he asks if Corinne’s dad would be okay with it.

Also, I gotta say... 

When Ben teared up with Lauren's sister last year everyone made a huge deal about it. Ben was done. Toast. Lauren was the winner. The end. As far as I remember, that was the only time Ben teared up with/about Lauren as well. Just that one time. 

Nick has cried multiple, MULTIPLE times around/about Vanessa. Notably on their first date, but also again watching her with her students and then AGAIN while talking to her sister. When Ben tears up with Lauren's sister, it's game over. But the edit totally downplays  Nick tearing up with Vanessa's sister and almost no one comments on it being a good sign. Make no mistake it's a great sign.  Nick gets very emotional thinking about Vanessa and talking about her to the people who love her. I think it's vital to note he cried talking to her sister. It shows the depth of his feelings.

sosleepy wrote:Also, I gotta say... 

When Ben teared up with Lauren's sister last year everyone made a huge deal about it. Ben was done. Toast. Lauren was the winner. The end. As far as I remember, that was the only time Ben teared up with/about Lauren as well. Just that one time. 

Nick has cried multiple, MULTIPLE times around/about Vanessa. Notably on their first date, but also again watching her with her students and then AGAIN while talking to her sister. When Ben tears up with Lauren's sister, it's game over. But the edit totally downplays  Nick tearing up with Vanessa's sister and almost no one comments on it being a good sign. Make no mistake it's a great sign.  Nick gets very emotional thinking about Vanessa and talking about her to the people who love her. I think it's vital to note he cried talking to her sister. It shows the depth of his feelings.

People will say Nick cries all the time. But the difference is with Vanessa, they've been happy tears. So there's that...

crunchycheeto wrote:Okay, I know long posts are discouraged but hear me (or Nick) out. I saw the comment upthread that Nick talking about Rachel was word for word the same as what was said to Vanessa's dad. And I thought my memory was failing me because I couldn't remember such a thing, so I watched parts of the episode again, including the entirety of Rachel's date. Here's what I found:

Lots of great conversations about church and race. But I didn't see any conversations about a possible engagement. Here's the closest I could find:

On Rachel's mother’s question about red flags: Nick’s response included the fact that they communicate really well. He feels like they get each other in a way where they have a lot in common; they can laugh together and give each other a hard time in a playful way. “She’s a big personality but I love that about her.” It's what attracted him the most about her.

Nick’s talk with Vanessa’s dad — Nick says he has tough decisions to make. Vanessa’s dad points out there are three other women. Nick says there’s no denying that but he would never disrespect the people Vanessa cares most about or her. He then says that she is someone very special to him and so if it gets to that point [making a tough decision], if he and Vanessa are two adults who are madly in love with each other decide that they want to take that leap of faith and get engaged, would he have her dad’s blessing. Would he be okay with it if she were happy and she believed it was the right decision to get engaged. V’s dad says he can’t just give his blessing…. Then V’s dad asks him what the ‘blessing’ means to him if he were a father. Nick says he would like to think that it means he’d feel comfortable about the young man making that commitment and honour that commitment to his daughter. He also added that [the hypothetical young man] would respect his daughter and giver her the life he would want for her. “I think the most honest thing I can say to you about this very unique and weird situation is that I will never make a decision with your daughter, especially if it’s to want to be with her in life, if I don’t think it’s right.” Then he says that he respects V that much to not do that. He says it’s real life for him. He cares very much for her. She makes him very happy. Then her dad basically says “sounds good” and that he doesn’t want her to get hurt, and to be happy. Nick said he wants the same thing.

And just for added discussion (the brevity reflects the length of these particular scenes):

Nick asking Raven’s dad — If he and Raven get to the end and they’re two people who can’t say goodbye to each other and want to go a step further and get engaged… then he asks him if he’s comfortable with it as long as his daughter is okay with it.

Nick’s asking Corinne’s dad — If he’s lucky enough to have it all end with someone he is deeply in love with, and if he and Corinne get to the end and they, as a couple, decide to get engaged… then he asks if Corinne’s dad would be okay with it.

Thanks for writing that all out. It's interesting how differently things seem when you're watching the show with strategic voice overs, music, etc. added in by the editors.

sosleepy wrote:Also, I gotta say... 

When Ben teared up with Lauren's sister last year everyone made a huge deal about it. Ben was done. Toast. Lauren was the winner. The end. As far as I remember, that was the only time Ben teared up with/about Lauren as well. Just that one time. 

Nick has cried multiple, MULTIPLE times around/about Vanessa. Notably on their first date, but also again watching her with her students and then AGAIN while talking to her sister. When Ben tears up with Lauren's sister, it's game over. But the edit totally downplays  Nick tearing up with Vanessa's sister and almost no one comments on it being a good sign. Make no mistake it's a great sign.  Nick gets very emotional thinking about Vanessa and talking about her to the people who love her. I think it's vital to note he cried talking to her sister. It shows the depth of his feelings.

ITA. There's not a doubt in my mind that spoiler is accurate and like Ben did with Lauren, Nick will end up choosing Vanessa. Honestly I'm seeing so many similarities with BenLo/Jojo and Nick/Vanessa (do they have a couple name?) and Rachel. And that spells trouble for their real life relationship IMO.