Rachel Lindsay - Bachelor 21 - *Sleuthing Spoilers* - #2

Rachel says she thought she would "win?" And that right there is the problem, for me...

She lost me when she mocked Nick's relationship on that IG Live with Alexis implying that he and Vanessa were DOA.  Just tacky AF.  Nick has been nothing, NOTHING but supportive of her, and Vanessa also reached out and congratulated her.  Rachel, the Bette, is the REAL winner here.  STFU, be gracious and let bygones be bygones, at least publicly.  If she is still sitting here in a power position like she is, and still PUBLICLY being a mean girl (yes, she, imo, is being a mean girl.  Maybe Vanessa was too, but I'm talking about Rachel, and whatever V did doesn't negate the fact that Rachel was ALSO acting Junior High Queen Bee catty), it makes me wonder how much smack she talks privately.

I think we can all agree that this group of women on the WTA was out of control, bully, mean girl, gross.  They all seem to idolize Rachel and follow her lead.  If Rachel could step up and be the bigger person (which should, in theory, be easy given her Ette gig), I think these other girls would fall in line and take the higher road too. So far, Rachel can't or won't do that.  I find it perplexing.

That is my problem with Rachel.

ETA: And I say this all painstakingly. You have no idea how much I WANT to like Rachel and root her on. On paper, I should like her. You go girl!! If she would just be gracious about the Vanessa thing and move on, that would do A LOT for me as well... help me root for her. I don't like girls who tear other girls down.

Sprite wrote:The thing is she isn't letting it go...and neither is her posse. That is what I don't understand. It was months ago. You are the Bette. Be happy. Let bygones be bygones. You don't have to be friends or even ever see each other again, but no need to go blabbering about not liking someone. You are supposedly a very smart lawyer. You know how to use words to their best effect. If you have nothing nice to say, just zip it.

I will be interested in seeing how she handles it when criticism starts coming her way....and I have no doubt it will. Buckle up!

Who in the posse is not letting it go?

As for the Rachel/Vanessa I just view the situation as people not clicking unfortunate but not everyone will get along.

emusha wrote:
Regarding the "leader of the pack" bit - I see no tangible proof that she is making other women gang up and ostracize other people or even band together and act in a joint way. People choose to act how they would and I see no proof of Rachel having any kind of influence over how other women in the house behave/d.

I would like to mention Alexis here as a post-show example. On the IG live, she sided with Rachel while responding about the Vanessa question. Hours after that, she went and liked Vanessa's new IG pic. There are two scenarios IMO - either she is two-faced or she felt she had to side with Rachel publicly for whatever reason. If it's the second scenario, I am not sure why Alexis would feel the need to do that- probably coz Rachel chose 'We responded multiple times' instead of 'I' / her 'leftovers' to look forward to and if it's the first scenario and Alexis is two-faced, why is Rachel BFF with her considering her biggest problem with Vanessa is that Vanessa is two-faced apparently. Just a thought.

All JMO.

sosleepy wrote:Rachel says she thought she would "win?" And that right there is the problem, for me...

She lost me when she mocked Nick's relationship on that IG Live with Alexis implying that he and Vanessa were DOA.  Just tacky AF.  Nick has been nothing, NOTHING but supportive of her, and Vanessa also reached out and congratulated her.  Rachel, the Bette, is the REAL winner here.  STFU, be gracious and let bygones be bygones, at least publicly.  If she is still sitting here in a power position like she is, and still PUBLICLY being a mean girl (yes, she, imo, is being a mean girl.  Maybe Vanessa was too, but I'm talking about Rachel, and whatever V did doesn't negate the fact that Rachel was ALSO acting Junior High Queen Bee catty), it makes me wonder how much smack she talks privately.

I think we can all agree that this group of women on the WTA was out of control, bully, mean girl, gross.  They all seem to idolize Rachel and follow her lead.  If Rachel could step up and be the bigger person (which should, in theory, be easy given her Ette gig), I think these other girls would fall in line and take the higher road too. So far, Rachel can't or won't do that.  I find it perplexing.

That is my problem with Rachel.

ETA:  And I say this all painstakingly.  You have no idea how much I WANT to like Rachel and root her on.  On paper, I should like her.  You go girl!! If she would just be gracious about the Vanessa thing and move on, that would do A LOT for me as well... help me root for her.  I don't like girls who tear other girls down.

The "winning" thing is only coming from Kristen on Afterbuzz but who knows if those were Rachel's exact words. I don't think there's been any interview where she has said that and quoted. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

I think it's important to make the distinction between what we hear Rachel say or she's quoted as saying versus what someone said she allegedly said.

^^ Ok, totally fair. Take out my comment about winning since that is debatable, and the rest of my post still stands imo.

sosleepy wrote:Rachel says she thought she would "win?" And that right there is the problem, for me...

She lost me when she mocked Nick's relationship on that IG Live with Alexis implying that he and Vanessa were DOA.  Just tacky AF.  Nick has been nothing, NOTHING but supportive of her, and Vanessa also reached out and congratulated her.  Rachel, the Bette, is the REAL winner here. STFU, be gracious and let bygones be bygones, at least publicly.  If she is still sitting here in a power position like she is, and still PUBLICLY being a mean girl (yes, she, imo, is being a mean girl.  Maybe Vanessa was too, but I'm talking about Rachel, and whatever V did doesn't negate the fact that Rachel was ALSO acting Junior High Queen Bee catty), it makes me wonder how much smack she talks privately.

I think we can all agree that this group of women on the WTA was out of control, bully, mean girl, gross.  They all seem to idolize Rachel and follow her lead.  If Rachel could step up and be the bigger person (which should, in theory, be easy given her Ette gig), I think these other girls would fall in line and take the higher road too. So far, Rachel can't or won't do that.  I find it perplexing.

That is my problem with Rachel.

ETA:  And I say this all painstakingly.  You have no idea how much I WANT to like Rachel and root her on.  On paper, I should like her.  You go girl!! If she would just be gracious about the Vanessa thing and move on, that would do A LOT for me as well... help me root for her.  I don't like girls who tear other girls down.

If those words matter SO much then so should these IMO [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I just want Nick to be happy. If he’s found his happiness, then great, I support it.

So what I'm getting is that Rachel's not only responsible for her actions but also others? Because you think the girls look up to her and would absolutely follow her lead. Even though they went after taylor like rabid beasts IMO and Rachel's been cool with Taylor since WAY before WTA. And some of them went after Corinne even though Rachel said before WTA that she "loves' her and is "team corn". Dlo's one of the people that allegedly wouldn't even look at Nick, but Rachel's publicly praised him, and her and Rachel seem to be close. We don't know what's been said behind closed doors. It could be negative like you've questioned, but she also could've tried to reason with them on things that they clearly have not followed her lead on IMO. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force them to drink it. All JMO.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  I agree with everything you've been posting. Yes it's a healthy discussion and all but I just see a lot of doubt and bad vibes about Rachel all of a sudden because she doesn't like Vanessa. I personally thought that was in bad taste when I heard she said that with Alexis, but I didn't base her entire character off of that, I still see all the positives that ReneeM mentioned and I still think she is a good person who isn't perfect JMO. I just don't see 19 women liking someone who is a ringleader or because she is the ette, I believe Christen that it is genuine (once again my opinion)... I also have observed that seemingly girls who are friendly with Vanessa are friendly with Rachel as well. I notice a lot of Vanessa fans are saying that Rachel was possibly threatened by Vanessa, but what about the other way around? Rachel got the first impression rose, and a GD rose, Vanessa never got a GD rose. I like Vanessa a lot but she seems like a very emotional woman (which isn't a bad thing) IMO, and Rachel seems like a more logical woman (she reminds me of myself), and sometimes we are read as cold but we can give great advice and be very helping, but some people mistake that as a know it all. IMO I just think that all the girls and Nick understood Rachel and genuinely liked her and I feel like Vanessa who was an alpha female in a different kinda way than Rachel probably just saw a woman who was competition and also who she felt was cold and they did not gel... I am not going to dislike someone though just because they don't get along with someone I like. If that was the case I wouldn't like either of them because I like them both. All my opinion btw, not calling anyone out.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ITA. Thanks for the reminder, all these interviews get confusing sometimes and we end up using alternative facts to prove our point

For me it has nothing to do with Vanessa. And I agree, the Queen Bee stuff doesn't make Rachel "evil," nor does it tarnish my entire opinion of her. It just gives me a pause from full out fanning so far, that's all.

We will get to "know" Rachel a lot more in the coming months. She'll either put my naggy little feelings to rest, or it will be magnified ala Dorfman. TBD. And we shall see! I hope it's the former. Like I said, I WANT to fan Rachel.

coolangel wrote:

emusha wrote:
Regarding the "leader of the pack" bit - I see no tangible proof that she is making other women gang up and ostracize other people or even band together and act in a joint way. People choose to act how they would and I see no proof of Rachel having any kind of influence over how other women in the house behave/d.

I would like to mention Alexis here as a post-show example. On the IG live, she sided with Rachel while responding about the Vanessa question. Hours after that, she went and liked Vanessa's new IG pic. There are two scenarios IMO - either she is two-faced or she felt she had to side with Rachel publicly for whatever reason. If it's the second scenario, I am not sure why Alexis would feel the need to do that- probably coz Rachel chose 'We responded multiple times' instead of 'I' / her 'leftovers' to look forward to and if it's the first scenario and Alexis is two-faced, why is Rachel BFF with her considering her biggest problem with Vanessa is that Vanessa is two-faced apparently. Just a thought.

All JMO.

How did Alexis side with Rachel exactly? Per your account on the video Rachel answered the question "Do you like Vanessa?" What is our concrete proof that 1) Alexis was influenced by Rachel 2) Alexis did not act independently. In an interview Alexis and Jasmine had on Access Hollywood they responded that they were "not present" and therefore cannot comment when the interviewer asked them about Vanessa. How do we know that Alexis even has any opinion of Vanessa simply because she was on the IG live video when Rachel responded to the question? Who knows maybe Alexis has no opinion and is still friends with Vanessa and Rachel is totally ok with that

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ITA and am with you that I want to root for Rachel and did root for her especially pre-season. I am happy with the historic change for the show, no doubt about that for me, but that's the main reason atm that I am thrilled because for me it's about time.

That said, Rachel herself has been disappointing with her words/action IMO especially her words about "his loss" and how "lucky" guys will be to date her and talking about them as "leftovers" already at the same time. It is so full on and egotistical to me that I have been actually shocked by it since I never once expected Rachel to talk or act like that.

And when I think of what Rachel went through on this show and in comparison to what the last Bette did, the last Bette went through far worse as a contestant and yet never once said it was the lead's "loss" that he never picked her or that the guys are "lucky" that she is the Bette or that the girls are basically lucky because they get her "leftovers".

Not to mention, I couldn't for the life of me see a male lead getting away with saying the things that Rachel has said. Not a chance could a male bachelor say "her loss" and say how "lucky" the women are that he is their lead or referring to the women he won't pick as "leftovers". A male lead doing that and it would be backlash like never seen before, IMO.

sosleepy wrote:For me it has nothing to do with Vanessa. And I agree, the Queen Bee stuff doesn't make Rachel "evil," nor does it tarnish my entire opinion of her. It just gives me a pause from full out fanning so far, that's all.

We will get to "know" Rachel a lot more in the coming months. She'll either put my baggy little feeling to rest, or it will be magnified ala Dorfman. TBD. And we shall see! I hope it's the former. Like I said, I WANT to fan Rachel.

I understand completely I don't wanna feel like I am shaming anyone who has a bad taste about Rachel but I'd be lying if I didn't say it wasn't a major shift after RS released that stupid Bimini fight details which we don't even know if the true story btw...

I like Rachel because she reminds me of me (from what I see on tv)... I could be completely wrong about Rachel and Vanessa, but I understand as a Capricorn lmao (I wish I could get Rachel and Vanessa's zodiac signs? Anyone?)... I am very career minded and very analytical and I am not going to lie I wish I showed more vulnerability and emotions and I see how people take that as cold and rude, but I do feel like Rachel and Vanessa's story could be similar to how I am perceived although this is all speculation and my opinion. Trust me I didn't like that Rachel fed into the non politically correct speaking when she answered a fans question that she didn't like Vanessa, but I cannot help but wonder that if Taylor and Vanessa were on a drunk IG live and they both answered a fan that they didn't like Corrine would they get the same backlash on here? Maybe but IMO I don't think they would.