Rachel Lindsay - Bachelor 21 - *Sleuthing Spoilers* - #2

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]....I am so with you that it's important to make a distinction on what the lead or contestants verbalized versus what is supposition. IMO what Kirsten said about "winning" falls into the supposition bucket. It's similar IMO to a claim that Danielle M was pushed aside by the other girls (read this on another thread on the forum) as they were trying to hug Rachel at the WTA which was stated as fact when that didn't happen IMO. I have read on this forum that some media quote this forum in their writings so the more reason to be careful about what is stated as fact when it's not the case ....all jmho.

emusha wrote:

coolangel wrote:

emusha wrote:
Regarding the "leader of the pack" bit - I see no tangible proof that she is making other women gang up and ostracize other people or even band together and act in a joint way. People choose to act how they would and I see no proof of Rachel having any kind of influence over how other women in the house behave/d.

I would like to mention Alexis here as a post-show example. On the IG live, she sided with Rachel while responding about the Vanessa question. Hours after that, she went and liked Vanessa's new IG pic. There are two scenarios IMO - either she is two-faced or she felt she had to side with Rachel publicly for whatever reason. If it's the second scenario, I am not sure why Alexis would feel the need to do that- probably coz Rachel chose 'We responded multiple times' instead of 'I' / her 'leftovers' to look forward to and if it's the first scenario and Alexis is two-faced, why is Rachel BFF with her considering her biggest problem with Vanessa is that Vanessa is two-faced apparently. Just a thought.

All JMO.

How did Alexis side with Rachel exactly? Per your account on the video Rachel answered the question "Do you like Vanessa?" What is our concrete proof that 1) Alexis was influenced by Rachel 2) Alexis did not act independently. In an interview Alexis and Jasmine had on Access Hollywood they responded that they were "not present" and therefore cannot comment when the interviewer asked them about Vanessa. How do we know that Alexis even has any opinion of Vanessa simply because she was on the IG live video when Rachel responded to the question? Who knows maybe Alexis has no opinion and is still friends with Vanessa and Rachel is totally ok with that

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someone who watched the stream posted this. Rachel: We responded multiple times and Alexis said "Negatively" which means she was piggy backing that they responded with a no answer, and they both began cackling according to this viewer. The viewer also said the questions were going so fast that no one knows for sure if they were answering the question
everyone believes they were.

EDITED TO ADD: Someone pointed out that Rachel said on IG Live that she doesn't hate ANYONE.

AllAboutLove wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ITA and am with you that I want to root for Rachel and did root for her especially pre-season. I am happy with the historic change for the show, no doubt about that for me, but that's the main reason atm that I am thrilled because for me it's about time.

That said, Rachel herself has been disappointing with her words/action IMO especially her words about "his loss" and how "lucky" guys will be to date her and talking about them as "leftovers" already at the same time. It is so full on and egotistical to me that I have been actually shocked by it since I never once expected Rachel to talk or act like that.

And when I think of what Rachel went through on this show and in comparison to what the last Bette did, the last Bette went through far worse as a contestant and yet never once said it was the lead's "loss" that he never picked her or that the guys are "lucky" that she is the Bette or that the girls are basically lucky because they get her "leftovers".

Not to mention, I couldn't for the life of me see a male lead getting away with saying the things that Rachel has said. Not a chance could a male bachelor say "her loss" and say how "lucky" the women are that he is their lead or referring to the women he won't pick as "leftovers". A male lead doing that and it would be backlash like never seen before, IMO.

Am I the only one who takes when she says "His loss" or her break up line would be "Bye" or "They are lucky", as sarcasm and corny confidence? I do that too sometimes. Once again I could be wrong, but I take that as dry sense of humor. JMO

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] If this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is correct, her birthday is April 25. She's a taurus. I saw this post today about how the signs express anger. I'm a sagittarius and it's SUPER accurate regarding me and the people I know.

how signs express their anger. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

— Astrology Signs (@astrologysupply) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

ReneeM wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] If this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is correct, her birthday is April 25. She's a taurus. I saw this post today about how the signs express anger. I'm a sagittarius and it's SUPER accurate regarding me and the people I know.

how signs express their anger. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

— Astrology Signs (@astrologysupply) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Makes a lot of sense, my mother and one of my best friends is a Taurus and they act exactly like that with the hints. That explains why she reminds me of myself because we are both earth signs and not emotional thinkers like water signs and such.

sosleepy wrote:

She lost me when she mocked Nick's relationship on that IG Live with Alexis implying that he and Vanessa were DOA.  Just tacky AF.  Nick has been nothing, NOTHING but supportive of her, and Vanessa also reached out and congratulated her.  Rachel, the Bette, is the REAL winner here.  STFU, be gracious and let bygones be bygones, at least publicly. [snipped...]

I think we can all agree that this group of women on the WTA was out of control, bully, mean girl, gross.  They all seem to idolize Rachel and follow her lead.  If Rachel could step up and be the bigger person (which should, in theory, be easy given her Ette gig), I think these other girls would fall in line and take the higher road too. So far, Rachel can't or won't do that.  I find it perplexing.

per the account posted on these boards by people who watched the IG live video Alexis not Rachel expressed doubts about Nick and Vanessa.

We have no tangible proof that the women follow Rachel's lead on anything.  We have a lot of proof that the women in the house love Rachel. These two things are not one and the same. I am confused how we seem to be discussing Rachel being a ring leader and where that conversation even started. What are we basing our allegations on regarding a person who seems by all accounts to "walk out" of the drama minus when she's directly engaged i.e. allegedly by Vanessa. imo

emusha wrote:

coolangel wrote:

emusha wrote:
Regarding the "leader of the pack" bit - I see no tangible proof that she is making other women gang up and ostracize other people or even band together and act in a joint way. People choose to act how they would and I see no proof of Rachel having any kind of influence over how other women in the house behave/d.

I would like to mention Alexis here as a post-show example. On the IG live, she sided with Rachel while responding about the Vanessa question. Hours after that, she went and liked Vanessa's new IG pic. There are two scenarios IMO - either she is two-faced or she felt she had to side with Rachel publicly for whatever reason. If it's the second scenario, I am not sure why Alexis would feel the need to do that- probably coz Rachel chose 'We responded multiple times' instead of 'I' / her 'leftovers' to look forward to and if it's the first scenario and Alexis is two-faced, why is Rachel BFF with her considering her biggest problem with Vanessa is that Vanessa is two-faced apparently. Just a thought.

All JMO.

How did Alexis side with Rachel exactly? Per your account on the video Rachel answered the question "Do you like Vanessa?" What is our concrete proof that 1) Alexis was influenced by Rachel 2) Alexis did not act independently. In an interview Alexis and Jasmine had on Access Hollywood they responded that they were "not present" and therefore cannot comment when the interviewer asked them about Vanessa. How do we know that Alexis even has any opinion of Vanessa simply because she was on the IG live video when Rachel responded to the question? Who knows maybe Alexis has no opinion and is still friends with Vanessa and Rachel is totally ok with that

Just to make sure we are on the same page, here is what I had posted back when the IG Live happened:

coolangel wrote: snipped
- A couple of people were asking about Vanessa. It was mostly 'Is Vanessa nice/Do you like Vanessa' to which Rachel responded 'No,we don't'. Initially, it was hard to make out if her response was for that question coz the questions were going really fast.
- Towards the end though, someone commented 'See how they are avoiding all the Vanessa questions' to which Rachel said, 'No, we are not avoiding anything. We responded multiple times' to which Alexis said 'Negatively' and then they both started cackling again.
- They also fanned the Nick/Vanessa breakup rumors IMO when someone asked 'Are Nick Vanessa together' to which they looked at each other before saying 'Probably not' followed by more laughter.

Alexis didn't answer any of the Vanessa questions till the last 'Negatively' when Rachel answered 'No, we are not avoiding anything'. I wasn't even sure Rachel was answering the Vanessa questions initially like I mentioned back then. Also, nowhere in my current post have I said that it is concrete proof. It is my interpretation and I stand by what I said.

All JMO.

emusha wrote:

sosleepy wrote:

She lost me when she mocked Nick's relationship on that IG Live with Alexis implying that he and Vanessa were DOA.  Just tacky AF.  Nick has been nothing, NOTHING but supportive of her, and Vanessa also reached out and congratulated her.  Rachel, the Bette, is the REAL winner here.  STFU, be gracious and let bygones be bygones, at least publicly. [snipped...]

I think we can all agree that this group of women on the WTA was out of control, bully, mean girl, gross.  They all seem to idolize Rachel and follow her lead.  If Rachel could step up and be the bigger person (which should, in theory, be easy given her Ette gig), I think these other girls would fall in line and take the higher road too. So far, Rachel can't or won't do that.  I find it perplexing.

per the account posted on these boards by people who watched the IG live video Alexis not Rachel expressed doubts about Nick and Vanessa.

We have no tangible proof that the women follow Rachel's lead on anything.  We have a lot of proof that the women in the house love Rachel. These two things are not one and the same. I am confused how we seem to be discussing Rachel being a ring leader and where that conversation even started. What are we basing our allegations on regarding a person who seems by all accounts to "walk out" of the drama minus when she's directly engaged i.e. allegedly by Vanessa.

After watching the WTA I can see that these women are a little Catty... When Chris Harrison introduced Lacey I saw Alexis mouth "Who's Lacey?"... When Corrine walked off the stage I saw Astrid yelling "Bye! Bye!", and little things like that. I feel like all of these women have minds of their own and I think that stamping Rachel with the ringleader is unfair IMO because she's the oldest and because she seems to be the most mature out of the women so that's why she is getting that stamp, but I honestly don't think IMO that this was the case. I think Rachel and Vanessa probably didn't gel that great but I don't think they hate one another. Nick said he and Rachel will continue to be friends, I doubt he'd befriend a woman who hated the sight of his fiancee/wife... I think they will publicly get along sometime in the future IMO. Rachel wasn't that shady from what I can see with my own eyes, she still spoke to Vanessa on group dates like when Vanessa missed the little bean bag throw threw the hole (forgive me idk what that game was called), Rachel told Vanessa "I thought you were gonna make it", and they seemed friendly, she posed in pics with Vanessa all the way up to the time she went home, and she hugged both Raven and Vanessa when she was eliminated. Yes Raven's hug was longer but that was her best friend in the house.

ericbutterfly wrote:
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someone who watched the stream posted this. Rachel: We responded multiple times and Alexis said "Negatively" which means she was piggy backing that they responded with a no answer, and they both began cackling according to this viewer. The viewer also said the questions were going so fast that no one knows for sure if they were answering the question
everyone believes they were.

EDITED TO ADD: Someone pointed out that Rachel said on IG Live that she doesn't hate ANYONE.

I find it funny that my post travels to reddit somehow, my interpretation gets interpreted there and that new interpretation gets posted here again.

coolangel wrote:

ericbutterfly wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

someone who watched the stream posted this. Rachel: We responded multiple times and Alexis said "Negatively" which means she was piggy backing that they responded with a no answer, and they both began cackling according to this viewer. The viewer also said the questions were going so fast that no one knows for sure if they were answering the question
everyone believes they were.

EDITED TO ADD: Someone pointed out that Rachel said on IG Live that she doesn't hate ANYONE.

I find it funny that my post travels to reddit somehow, my interpretation gets interpreted there and that new interpretation gets posted here again.

That redditor stole your post? Wow ... I thought they were viewing as well. My bad...

Someone did add on reddit that Rachel did say toward the end of the IG live that she doesn't hate anyone.

Yes that was [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] 's post but to be fair 3 other people said they watched the IG live as well and they all had different interpretations

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Thanks for resharing that.

With all due respect and because I have not watched the video I won't read too much into this but it sounds like Rachel was responding to all the Vanessa questions and Alexis (who is supposedly Rachel's bff and likely heard about what happened but wasn't there in person) is also present. She did not disagree but mostly stayed out of it outside of providing a clarification that the question was indeed answered at the end. During the interview with Access Hollywood Alexis decided not to comment about Vanessa with her personal opinion saying that Jasmine and her were not present so they cannot comment. I do think this is very much open to interpretation for 1) what Alexis' opinions of Vanessa are 2) whether she was "influenced" to dislike Vanessa as well or whether she was being a close friend of someone and standing by who was in a disagreement with someone else. imo